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In-game choices never feel wrong. I think sometimes they should.

Débuté par filetemo , juil. 19 2013 06:03

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#76
In Exile
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:40

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Ryzaki wrote...

He is the one who tells you about the moral ambiguity of the wardens in the beginning. While he might think you're scum of the earth he still needs your help to fight the blight which is the most important thing.


Alistair will personally execute Loghain rather than have him help against the darkspawn because he lost his friends and father figure. He is absolutely not the type of person who puts pragmatism ahead of personal feelings. 

If you harden him that's a different story, but then Leliana if hardened won't object to the ashes.

#77
LadyJaneGrey
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:41

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ME2 kills Shepard if he/she mind-melds with Morinth. If that wasn't the game telling you "you're an idiot," I don't know what is.

#78
Iakus
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:42

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In Exile wrote...
If you harden him that's a different story, but then Leliana if hardened won't object to the ashes.



Well, to be precise, Leliana will still object, but she can be talked down if you harden her.

#79
MassivelyEffective0730
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:44

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Peeks in thread and sees David trying to argue about choices in Dragon Age, a game he's never played.

Hilarious.

#80
In Exile
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:44

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iakus wrote...

Well, to be precise, Leliana will still object, but she can be talked down if you harden her.


Yes, you're totally right. In my head, I had object = fight, which is entirely nonsensical. 

#81
filetemo
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:44

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LadyJaneGrey wrote...

ME2 kills Shepard if he/she mind-melds with Morinth. If that wasn't the game telling you "you're an idiot," I don't know what is.


An excellent example. Altough relegated to easter-egg category because of its uniqueness. I would like to know the DA team's stance on choice-related game over screens.

If I recall correctly some developer said time ago that they do not want to make the player feel they got a decision-related game over screen because they were playing the game "wrong"

#82
In Exile
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:46

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filetemo wrote...
If I recall correctly some developer said time ago that they do not want to make the player feel they got a decision-related game over screen because they were playing the game "wrong"


That's not my recollection. I recall DG implying that he thinks dead-ends like that are a kind of costly easter egg that doesn't add much because gamers just re-load. I think he's understating how much more "free" it makes the game feel. 

And frankly gamers need to learn that their sometimes insane and sociopathic and psycopathic choices are bad. 

#83
Iakus
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 02:47

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I'm hoping the "never feels wrong" choice means that there will be varieties of options, which can work for a spectrum of moralities. I'd be less worried about facing "save the baby/save the warlock" chocies as "pick which warlock to save", since in that case, both options would feel "wrong".

I'd hope, then that there would be some way to justify picking one option over the other. Or that the choice doesn't blow up in your face no matter which one you pick (Hi, there, Grace!) Simply aside from a "but thou must" aspect of making a choice, there should be some sort of reactivity to teh choice that makes making different chocies seem worthwhile in different ways.

Modifié par iakus, 20 juillet 2013 - 02:48 .

#84
AresKeith
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 03:03

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Peeks in thread and sees David trying to argue about choices in Dragon Age, a game he's never played.

Hilarious.


He doesn't like things interfering with his heroism

#85
spirosz
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 03:30

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I felt wrong for romancing anyone but Liara in Vanilla ME3.

#86
Wulfram
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 03:48

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I think characters should pretty strongly disagree with your choice, and negative consequences shouldn't be soft-peddled.

But I'm not keen on when it's basically the game telling you that this was wrong and you should feel bad, unless the choice is really obviously stupid, in which case I don't mind having a non-standard game over.

#87
AlanC9
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 03:51

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spirosz wrote...

I felt wrong for romancing anyone but Liara in Vanilla ME3.


How come?

#88
Catroi
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 04:38

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AlanC9 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I felt wrong for romancing anyone but Liara in Vanilla ME3.


How come?


The fact that she replaces your LI if your romance was anyone from ME2 in the flashback at the end is pretty telling...

#89
Riverdaleswhiteflash
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 04:39

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In Exile wrote...

If you harden him that's a different story, but then Leliana if hardened won't object to the ashes.


He's still not willing to fight alongside Loghain, no matter what you do.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 juillet 2013 - 04:40 .

#90
Guest_kiprakoyoh_*
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 04:48

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Not that injury kits should be more expensive, just that injuries should be more devastating. Also, injuries should increase your companions rivalry. That'll teach you.

#91
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 05:53

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AlanC9 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I felt wrong for romancing anyone but Liara in Vanilla ME3.


How come?


He's joking about ME's plot armor for Liara.

#92
AresKeith
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 06:47

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kiprakoyoh wrote...

Not that injury kits should be more expensive, just that injuries should be more devastating. Also, injuries should increase your companions rivalry. That'll teach you.


That doesn't make sense

#93
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 07:13

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Catroi wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I felt wrong for romancing anyone but Liara in Vanilla ME3.


How come?


The fact that she replaces your LI if your romance was anyone from ME2 in the flashback at the end is pretty telling...

They did change that with the Extended Cut.

But yeah, it was pretty wack.

#94
Medhia Nox
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 08:25

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The problem with any sort of morality in these RPGs (even The Walking Dead) is that the game cannot proceed without the authority of the singular PC character.

In the real world - a single person, tens, hundreds, thousands - heck, even millions of people can oppose your viewpoint. They can literally turn the world against you (or, on a microcosmic scale - turn your world against you).

In a mono-PC driven game - the PC is god. If the PC fails - the universe stops.

In my opinion - it's the flaw that keeps CRPGs so one dimensional.

#95
Guest_kiprakoyoh_*
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 08:46

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Oh, I fell asleep. What did I author ? ... Ok. Yes. Your companions should get upset with your team (party) and become more averse to you if you let them reach knockout status. You can measure this with Friendship and Rivalry. When the character loses all health in battle, they will automatically find Hawkes strategy disagreeable and move toward rivalry. Perhaps if you decide to act particulary defensive of the companion in battle you can win back friendship and respect.

#96
Guest_kiprakoyoh_*
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 08:58

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By amplification of the consequences of your characters actions, relaive to the consequences of other actions or speech at the same difficulty, you will feel worse about making disfavorable decisions.  In this case I am suggesting a more drastic response of the game toward companions mortality.

Modifié par kiprakoyoh, 20 juillet 2013 - 09:05 .

#97
Guest_kiprakoyoh_*
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 09:21

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Sometimes I think y'all think that when your companion falls in battle their dad comes and wakes them up after the fight. DA2 is for mature, nobody's gunna bail you out when you fail.

#98
The Baconer
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 10:01

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I always felt that handing over Fenris to Danarius should have been a bigger deal to your other companions. Like, a really big deal.

#99
Nefla
Posté 20 juillet 2013 - 10:18

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I wish your companions in DA2 had reacted more strongly to decisions they are passionately against. If you have Fenris in your party and you decide to let a slaver go, if you can't persuade Fenris, then he should take matters into his own hands and kill the slaver anyway. If you send abused mages back to the circle, Anders should try to stop you, if you do a bunch of illegal stuff with Aveline, she should leave you or arrest you or something.

One part I thought was particularly messed up was if you sell Fenris back to Danarius, both Aveline and Sebastian exclaim how wrong it is but neither lift a finger to try to help him. (Saw this on YouTube, I can't make this evil of a choice myself)

Modifié par Nefla, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:19 .

#100
filetemo
Posté 21 juillet 2013 - 12:12

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Sending the "biotic god volus" of ME2 to his certain death should make Samara swear to kill you when the mission is over or downright stop that cruel act of pointless murder
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