72 réponses à ce sujet

[ames4u]

ultimatekotorfan wrote...

Billie Bones wrote...

Or have the person you rejected kill your LI.

*Ahem*

You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, in DA:I , Bioware makes it that, like, a mage will get shot with an arrow, or a shipload of templars will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan." But when they set it that one little LI will die, well then everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little anarchy to the LIs. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.

This is one of the better things I've ever read.

A little competition would be...interesting.

But killing the LI? No. Seriously injuring them out of jealousy? Yes. Last thing you want
is a lynch mob kicking down the doors because the writers got a little too
carried away.

[BlueMagitek]

Nonsense, killing the LI is perfectly valid. Just like DA:O.

[MWImexico]

As far as this remains an option, not an obligation. Else it's garbage.

[MWImexico]

Personally, it doesn't bother me if a character (male or female) tries to flirt, though I guess it depends on how it's presented, politely/subtle or not. But what I certainly do not like is when the game forces my character to positively respond to it without my approval. That's a different matter.

[berelinde]

This again. Yeesh.

It is possible to avoid romancing Anders without being mean to him or earning any rivalry points at all. Here's how.

1. Choose the "At least he got a nice body" dialogue option. Yes, this is marked with a heart, but it *does not* initiate the romance. In order to start the romance, you need to flirt with him in Act 2. Anything you say in Act 1 doesn't count. What Hawke actually says here is "Well, he can't complain about his looks." This is a harmless compliment that one person can offer to another. I wouldn't consider it provocative at all.

2. If Hawke is female, you can avoid saying anything else even remotely complimentary for the rest of the dialogue, even the aggressive "I can take care of myself," without incurring any rivalry whatsoever. Hawke will end the conversation with a net +5 Friendship.

3. If Hawke is male, choose the "Together?" dialogue option when he tells you about Karl. He will then ask you if that makes you uncomfortable. Say "Yes." No rivalry gain, end the conversation with +5 Friendship.

End result: No Anders romance, no rivalry, and you don't have to be a jerk to him.

[AutumnWitch]

berelinde wrote...

This again. Yeesh.

It is possible to avoid romancing Anders without being mean to him or earning any rivalry points at all. Here's how.

End result: No Anders romance, no rivalry, and you don't have to be a jerk to him.

This is only true if you are not nice to him. In other words when I support his actions (what ever he is up to at the moment) by helping him when he askes for it I ALWAYS end up with a screen that offers me one romance reply and two that basically rebuff him. BOTH of the rebuffs result it negative friendship and him getting mad. I don't know what to tell ya thats how it always is when I play it.

[TK514]

berelinde wrote...

This again. Yeesh.

It is possible to avoid romancing Anders without being mean to him or earning any rivalry points at all. Here's how.

1. Choose the "At least he got a nice body" dialogue option. Yes, this is marked with a heart, but it *does not* initiate the romance. In order to start the romance, you need to flirt with him in Act 2. Anything you say in Act 1 doesn't count. What Hawke actually says here is "Well, he can't complain about his looks." This is a harmless compliment that one person can offer to another. I wouldn't consider it provocative at all.

2. If Hawke is female, you can avoid saying anything else even remotely complimentary for the rest of the dialogue, even the aggressive "I can take care of myself," without incurring any rivalry whatsoever. Hawke will end the conversation with a net +5 Friendship.

3. If Hawke is male, choose the "Together?" dialogue option when he tells you about Karl. He will then ask you if that makes you uncomfortable. Say "Yes." No rivalry gain, end the conversation with +5 Friendship.

End result: No Anders romance, no rivalry, and you don't have to be a jerk to him.

So, your answer for not wanting to flirt with Anders and at the same time avoid rivalry points is to flirt with Anders.

Not a solution.

[reddead136]

Billie Bones wrote...

Or have the person you rejected kill your LI.

*Ahem*

You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, in DA:I , Bioware makes it that, like, a mage will get shot with an arrow, or a shipload of templars will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan." But when they set it that one little LI will die, well then everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little anarchy to the LIs. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.

This actually sounds really fun. Maybe a few different scenarios to keep playthroughs fresh. David Gaider has said though that Romances won't play any bigger or smaller roles in DA: I though. I would even be in favor of the LI falling in love with someone else if certain conditions are met. I LOVE sad / dramatic things though ( Ultimate Sacrifice FTW ). xD

But great idea either way.

[Tvorceskiy]

What you're wanting is to NEVER EVER EVER hurt anyone's feelings EVER when they're attracted to you.

Impossible.

If you were starting to get to know someone and you thought 'hey, maybe I'd like more...' And you hit on them wouldn't you be hurt when you were turned down?? Besides, 5 or 10 points towards rivalry is NOTHING in the beginning of the game.

[Twisted Path]

If you play a male character in Mass Effect 3 and try to be buddies with Steve Cortez there's an awkward moment where Shepard is given the stark choice of either hitting on Cortez or very awkwardly announcing that he LIKES GIRLS in the way a guy who's very uncomfortable with his own sexuality would. It's one of the many places in ME3 where a neutral option would have been perfect.

ME3 had a similar moment if you play a female character. There's a point where James Vega calls you a nickname and you can either flirt with him or order him not to use nicknames. It's a really weird choice. Where's the "Yeah, whatever, you can call me a silly nickname" option that doesn't involve a come hither voice?

Neutral and ambivalent responses would always be welcome in these sorts of situations. Heck, I think neutral and ambivalent responses are what most people give when they're getting unwanted attention from someone they aren't interested in, rather than the cliche of throwing a drink in their face. Of course in the instances I'm talking about in ME3 it's the player character who automatically hits on another character if you pick one out of the two options the game gives you which is even worse.

/ Make googly eyes at a guy.
o
\\ Throw a drink in a guy's face with no provocation.

isn't really a choice that should ever come up in a video game.

One more thing: there's actually a really good example in Dragon Age 2 of someone letting someone else down easy. If you try to flirt with Aveline the first time she very politly friendzone's you. She just ignores Hawke's flirtatious remark and mentions what a good *friend* you've been. That's how it's done.

Modifié par Twisted Path, 21 juillet 2013 - 08:56 .

[Renmiri1]

Oi...

Have you guys and girls NEVER met someone who flirts with you from the moment they meet you ?

Weird!

I'm not a swimsuit model and I have met many, still meet them sometimes even being a mom
Actually I have a really funny story of being 6 months pregnant and entering a crowded bar to pee (pregnant woman have to pee every time the baby kicks their bladder, which in case of my son was every 5 minutes -.-) and having someone flirt with me, only to then see my pregnant tummy and say "Oops, sorry Miss!". We both laughed at it.

I've always preferred honesty, right away. When I tried to go with the "oh what a good friend you are" it usually led to me being accused of being a tease or of leading the guy on.

[Isaidlunch]

Vapaä wrote...

devSin wrote...

To me, this was just bad dialogue, and it boxed the player into only a few replies which were apparently unsuitable for the majority of characters.

It's not bad dialogue, it's bad fan reaction
So much fuss for 10 rivalry points ? really ? (well I belive Anders hitting on "manly Hawke" might have butthurt "certain" people)

The line do come quite early, I personaly didn't get why he's flirtatous when he and Hawke barely met, but apart for this detail, Anders rejection is a non-problem that people blew it out of proportion

But the dialogue is bad. It forces a lot of Hawkes to act completely out of character by either flirting back or acting like a prude and Anders' reaction doesn't even fit that well, which isn't suprising because it's copy-pasted from the aggressive path where you tell him to keep his issues to himself.

A lot of Anders' and Sebastian's (same writer) dialogue is badly written and this is only one example of it.

Modifié par Kazanth, 22 juillet 2013 - 12:56 .

[Renmiri1]

I disagree 100%, I loved the writer for Anders and she was lead writer for the project if I recall correctly.
She made such a good parallel with the struggles couples have when one has a mental illness! You love the person but you can't love all that he / she does because there is this "dark passenger" inside the person you love. In Ander's case it is literally another being, IRL this darkness can't be attributed to a fade spirit but OTOH you can't blame your loved one for having it. It wasn't his / her choice.

All you can do is be there for them, and hope you two can get through the hard times. Or leave, even when it breaks your heart, because you know you are not strong enough to cope with your partner's illness.

Some of us have been there, and I can tell you, this writer got it right.

[Twisted Path]

Looking and acting disinterested, changing the subject and hoping he takes the hint may not be the best tactic but having a [Look and act disinterested, change the subject and hope he takes the hint] node on the dialogue wheel between [Enthusiastically Accept!] and [Bluntly Reject!] would still have been nice.

[TK514]

I was hoping for a 'No thanks, I saw what happened to your last lover' option.

[Vapaa]

Kazanth wrote...

But the dialogue is bad. It forces a lot of Hawkes to act completely out of character by either flirting back or acting like a prude and Anders' reaction doesn't even fit that well, which isn't suprising because it's copy-pasted from the aggressive path where you tell him to keep his issues to himself.

"completely out of character" ? really ? a neutral rejection line like that ? my Hawke wasn't out of character when she said that; she wasn't into Anders, so the didn't flirt back, that's all there is to it.

It's such a tiny harmless line, yet people made such a drama (and endless threads on the BSN and elsewhere) about it, I mean you can complain about certain aspects of Anders character (he gets quite annoying in act 3, but even then I can understand why) but making such a fuss over a stock seduction/rejection dialogue, and going on about how Hawke is "out of character" and it RUINED FOREVER DA2/Anders/Bioware romances/Thedas/what have you (not saying you said this last thing, but it's honestly what come out of the sheer amount of heated debates on this very topic), is a bit of an overreaction, don't you think ?

[ANGRYWOLF1]

Anders was totally messed up in DA2 compared to the Awakening Anders.
I actually enjoy killing him.
I certainly don't want party members killing each other out of jealousy as part of some script beyond the player's control.

[ultimatekotorfan]

ames4u wrote...

ultimatekotorfan wrote...

Billie Bones wrote...

Or have the person you rejected kill your LI.

*Ahem*

You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, in DA:I , Bioware makes it that, like, a mage will get shot with an arrow, or a shipload of templars will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan." But when they set it that one little LI will die, well then everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little anarchy to the LIs. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.

This is one of the better things I've ever read.

A little competition would be...interesting.

But killing the LI? No. Seriously injuring them out of jealousy? Yes. Last thing you want
is a lynch mob kicking down the doors because the writers got a little too
carried away.

I meant I enjoyed is use of the Dark Knight chaos speech, but agree about competition.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Why do we all assume that rivalry is a punishment? Is it because it is represented in red? Now granted I understand rivalry comes across as a punishment. Though it was never intended to be perceived as a penalty. Friendship in DA2 is like you know supporting your friend no matter what and always taking their side. Rivalry is like having a friend that you want to help become a better person. Even if that means sometimes not supporting the decisions they make 100% of the time. I recognize that it isn't presented very well in game but it is not the end of the world to lose friendship points. I find that a rivalry with Anders is more rewarding in the end.

[legbamel]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks Anders is so completely changed from Awakening. Read his dialogue without tone or expression and see if it's so very different. He's still enjpyomg the firt blush of freedom but he does plenty of harping about mage freedom.

He's also pretty high-strung in both games, just in different ways. He's not into the Warden for whatever reason so you don't talk about his sexuality and he doesn't hit on you as the Warden. He does as Hawke. That his feelings are easily bruised or that he is over-sensitive to rejection should come as no surprise at that point in the dialogue where he's just finished telling you that he's an outcast from everything he's ever joined. When you're nice to him, as a refugee, an apostate, and host to Justice, he latches on to you. I don't find that at all unreasonable, considering how unstable he is.

As for the particular line, I took it as a brusque request that we not bring personal feelings into a relationship you began for purely mercenary reasons: you need those maps. It's not harsh or personal, just to the point.

[ladyiolanthe]

Anders was flirtatious as soon as you met him in Awakening, too, if you were playing a female Warden-Commander. It's just how he is. Heck, he was flirting with my Warden-Commander in front of King Alistair right after Alistair addressed her as "dear wife."  He's confident and cheeky -  we might even say he has an ego. So, when rejected, it's plausible that he'd take it pretty badly.

I'm not too worried about losing 10 points.

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 29 juillet 2013 - 06:36 .

[Ianamus]

I never liked the Anders scene. As a male Hawke it seemed the only options were to flirt with him or to go "eww gay". A bit strange considering there was another male LI in the game who the player could have been rejecting Anders in favour of. It's disappointing because while I believe having the s/s LI's openly flirt with the protagonist without prompt is a good thing I found myself preferring the way Fenris was presented as an LI. 

Modifié par EJ107, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:07 .