68 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Mr.House wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Cory: You promised us the power of the gods.

Notice he says gods, not god in the golden city.

I think he was referring to the other Old Gods in that particular sentence, seeing that he's addressing Dumat, who is an Old God.

Cory is speeking about the golden city and what was told to be in there. Dumat and the old gods where not in the golden city, so it would not make sense for him to be talknig about the old gods in that sentace. It's very possible the golden city was in fact the location of the elven gods which would make alot more sense and fit what Cory is talking about.

Then again, I do not beleive the Maker is anything other then a powerful spirit that simply created the veil and merged with Andraste.

See edit:

If not, then "the gods" (notice the lack of capitalization) could also just be a generic name for "really powerful magic".

[LobselVith8]

mikeymoonshine wrote...

The Chantry to me always seemed like the catholic Church. That has to be what they are based on right? it's allot of the same crap you get from them. 

I don't see the Chantry as an allegory for any real religion, especially with their prophet Andraste and their treatment of elves and mages. Some players have issues with the Chantry of Andraste over the elves, the Dalish historical account about their templar invasion of the kingdom of the Dales, prohibiting the elven religion in Andrastian kingdoms, and their use of religion in keeping the mages across the continent confined to the Chantry controlled Circles.

[Plaintiff]

I suspect Thedas has a few Lovecraftian beings with godlike powers, lurking beyond its metaphysical borders.

I doubt there are any "deities" as we understand the term.

[cjones91]

LobselVith8 wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

The Chantry to me always seemed like the catholic Church. That has to be what they are based on right? it's allot of the same crap you get from them. 

I don't see the Chantry as an allegory for any real religion, especially with their prophet Andraste and their treatment of elves and mages. Some players have issues with the Chantry of Andraste over the elves, the Dalish historical account about their templar invasion of the kingdom of the Dales, prohibiting the elven religion in Andrastian kingdoms, and their use of religion in keeping the mages across the continent confined to the Chantry controlled Circles.

One can make the case that the Chantry is the Dragon Age version of the Roman Catholic Church.They both had very corrupt people within their ranks,they both had huge armies that they would use to try to "convert" heretics with the Crusades and Exalted Marches respectively.

[LobselVith8]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well warden can't say outright that he doesn't belive in maker more suggest that like by refusing blessing or in mage case tell chantry priest that you don't need their chantry.As i know in noble origin you can tell that you think that maker abandoned world.I don't know maybe i missed some dialogues. I don't renember that in awakening was any religious dialogues. I think that is same in Hawke case he suggest that he doesn't belive and that "may andraste guide you" i treat like that hawke casts spells and no one knows that.

Actually, The Warden can explicitly say that he doesn't believe in the Maker. Your Cousland protagonist can say this in the Human Noble Origin; your Surana Warden can make it clear at Ostagar at that he (or she) doesn't see the Maker as his god (having grown up in a society where he has only been exposed to the Andrastian faith) and he condemns the Chantry for invading the Dales because his people refused to convert; The Warden can tell Leliana that Andraste wasn't divine, which indicates that the protagonist doesn't follow the Andrastian faith; and the Warden-Commander can say (when asked by the Kristoff-inhabiting Spirit of Justice in the City of Amaranthine whether he believes in the Maker) that he doesn't believe in the Maker since it's a foolish superstition.

[cjones91]

Plaintiff wrote...

I suspect Thedas has a few Lovecraftian beings with godlike powers, lurking beyond its metaphysical borders.

I doubt there are any "deities" as we understand the term.

Very true.Even some demons like the Forbidden Ones have a hand in teaching the Ancient Tevinter Magisters blood magic and spurring them to worship the Old Gods.Hell some of the deities in the DA universe could be demons themselves or very powerful Fade spirits.

Modifié par cjones91, 20 juillet 2013 - 11:53 .

[mikeymoonshine]

LobselVith8 wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

The Chantry to me always seemed like the catholic Church. That has to be what they are based on right? it's allot of the same crap you get from them. 

I don't see the Chantry as an allegory for any real religion, especially with their prophet Andraste and their treatment of elves and mages. Some players have issues with the Chantry of Andraste over the elves, the Dalish historical account about their templar invasion of the kingdom of the Dales, prohibiting the elven religion in Andrastian kingdoms, and their use of religion in keeping the mages across the continent confined to the Chantry controlled Circles.

But isn't Andraste kinda similar to Joan of arc? one on one relationship with god, betrayel, being burnt at the stake.

then of course there was all the invading a concouring that was done in the name of the catholic church and their destruction of older religions like paganism. 

The witch burnings which you could equate to controlling mages,  they even had Templars. 

[Steelcan]

It'd be interesting to examine a secular history of Thedas certainly. Rip away the mythical qualities of Andraste..

[LobselVith8]

Steelcan wrote...

It'd be interesting to examine a secular history of Thedas certainly. Rip away the mythical qualities of Andraste..

Well, there is a book in Orzammar that reads how Andraste was actually a mage, rather than a divine figure of the Maker. It's a gift you can give to Wynne.

[Steelcan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

It'd be interesting to examine a secular history of Thedas certainly. Rip away the mythical qualities of Andraste..

Well, there is a book in Orzammar that reads how Andraste was actually a mage, rather than a divine figure of the Maker. It's a gift you can give to Wynne.

.  Also how her attack on the Imperium could just be a series of natural disasters that gave discontented subjects their chance to rebel.

[cjones91]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

It'd be interesting to examine a secular history of Thedas certainly. Rip away the mythical qualities of Andraste..

Well, there is a book in Orzammar that reads how Andraste was actually a mage, rather than a divine figure of the Maker. It's a gift you can give to Wynne.

You know,I actually want a Dragon Age game where you uncover the secrets of Andraste and you find undeniable proof that she was a mage.

I can just imagine the meltdown the Chantry would experience if that happened.

[cjones91]

Steelcan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

It'd be interesting to examine a secular history of Thedas certainly. Rip away the mythical qualities of Andraste..

Well, there is a book in Orzammar that reads how Andraste was actually a mage, rather than a divine figure of the Maker. It's a gift you can give to Wynne.

.  Also how her attack on the Imperium could just be a series of natural disasters that gave discontented subjects their chance to rebel.

Or she could have just wanted to get rid of the competition.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well warden can't say outright that he doesn't belive in maker more suggest that like by refusing blessing or in mage case tell chantry priest that you don't need their chantry.As i know in noble origin you can tell that you think that maker abandoned world.I don't know maybe i missed some dialogues. I don't renember that in awakening was any religious dialogues. I think that is same in Hawke case he suggest that he doesn't belive and that "may andraste guide you" i treat like that hawke casts spells and no one knows that.

Actually, The Warden can explicitly say that he doesn't believe in the Maker. Your Cousland protagonist can say this in the Human Noble Origin; your Surana Warden can make it clear at Ostagar at that he (or she) doesn't see the Maker as his god (having grown up in a society where he has only been exposed to the Andrastian faith) and he condemns the Chantry for invading the Dales because his people refused to convert; The Warden can tell Leliana that Andraste wasn't divine, which indicates that the protagonist doesn't follow the Andrastian faith; and the Warden-Commander can say (when asked by the Kristoff-inhabiting Spirit of Justice in the City of Amaranthine whether he believes in the Maker) that he doesn't believe in the Maker since it's a foolish superstition.

Damn i missed dialogue with justice i guess you have to trigger something ,do you renember where exactly that was?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It was at the statue of Andraste outside the Chantry in Amaranthine, as I recall.

[wolfhowwl]

As real as the Elven pantheon.

[LobselVith8]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Actually, The Warden can explicitly say that he doesn't believe in the Maker. Your Cousland protagonist can say this in the Human Noble Origin; your Surana Warden can make it clear at Ostagar at that he (or she) doesn't see the Maker as his god (having grown up in a society where he has only been exposed to the Andrastian faith) and he condemns the Chantry for invading the Dales because his people refused to convert; The Warden can tell Leliana that Andraste wasn't divine, which indicates that the protagonist doesn't follow the Andrastian faith; and the Warden-Commander can say (when asked by the Kristoff-inhabiting Spirit of Justice in the City of Amaranthine whether he believes in the Maker) that he doesn't believe in the Maker since it's a foolish superstition.

Damn i missed dialogue with justice i guess you have to trigger something ,do you renember where exactly that was? 

With Justice? The trigger is in front of the statute of the Chantry, in the City of Amaranthine.

[The Elder King]

 The Maker exists, obviously. He's known as Fen'harel and Flemeth too.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Crap now i know why i missed that i can't trigger that because i can't click on the statue when i press tab name shows up but i can't click it.

[The Elder King]

wolfhowwl wrote...

As real as the Elven pantheon.

There are chances that elven Gods exists. Considering that elven Gods are supposed to be sealed in heaven/above heart and in the underground, an that Old Gods are sealed underground, and that dragons might have been released from the Fade in DAI (which the trailer shows is above Earth). The elven Gods could be the Dragons sealed in the Fade and in the Deep Roads.

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

As real as the Elven pantheon.

There are chances that elven Gods exists. Considering that elven Gods are supposed to be sealed in heaven/above heart and in the underground, an that Old Gods are sealed underground, and that dragons might have been released from the Fade in DAI (which the trailer shows is above Earth). The elven Gods could be the Dragons sealed in the Fade and in the Deep Roads.

Spending an entire game sistematically destroying elven culture? Best. Dragon Age. Ever.
Do it, Bioware. "Your god is an overgrown lizard that I can kill with a sharp piece of metal. Nahnahnah."

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 juillet 2013 - 12:57 .

[Dr. Doctor]

I'm a fan of the idea that Fen'Harel is the Maker. Considering that the Forgotten Ones (possibly the Old Gods) were sealed away in some kind of abyss (possibly the Fade) and the Elven Pantheon is alleged to reside in an "Eternal City" which could be the Black City.

The call of the Old Gods that drew the Magisters to the Golden City might have been the Forgotten Ones or the Elven Pantheon trying to escape from Fen'Harel's prison. Also giving Andraste dreams in which she encountered the figure of the Maker and creating a religion that heavily restricts the use of magic that could unleash the things locked away in the Fade is a good idea.

[Rann]

The player can make up their own mind as to what is real and isn't -- just like the real world. But the best part is, in this case, you can play through again and believe something entirely different if you want...

[mikeymoonshine]

Rann wrote...

The player can make up their own mind as to what is real and isn't -- just like the real world. But the best part is, in this case, you can play through again and believe something entirely different if you want...

Exactly that's what I like about the game.

[Renmiri1]

The voices in my head told me the Maker is real