242 réponses à ce sujet

[Big I]

Wulfram wrote...
Aveline thinks that it's reasonable to limit mage's freedoms but thinks Meredith might be going too far.  I don't see the problem there.

Unless it's mages she knows. She never makes any move against her personal acquiantances, even if they (like my Hawke) are involved in smuggling mages out of templar custody. Moreover, Im not certain she does think it's reasonable to limit mage freedom. She never mentions even in passing that Mage Hawke or Bethany should consider joining th Circle. Does Aveline hand over mages to the templars because her job forces her to, or does she let Hawke stay free against her better judgement?


To be clear, my annoyance is not because she doesn't have a strong position on mages vs templars. Netiher do Isabella or Varic. My annoyance comes from the fact that she seems to hold contradictory opinions, never works to reconcile those differences, and yet feels entitled to use inflict her own judgements on those around her.

[Wulfram]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Unless it's mages she knows. She never makes any move against her personal acquiantances, even if they (like my Hawke) are involved in smuggling mages out of templar custody. Moreover, Im not certain she does think it's reasonable to limit mage freedom. She never mentions even in passing that Mage Hawke or Bethany should consider joining th Circle. Does Aveline hand over mages to the templars because her job forces her to, or does she let Hawke stay free against her better judgement?[

To be clear, my annoyance is not because she doesn't have a strong position on mages vs templars. Netiher do Isabella or Varic. My annoyance comes from the fact that she seems to hold contradictory opinions, never works to reconcile those differences, and yet feels entitled to use inflict her own judgements on those around her.

I'd say she puts her "family" over her job and even over her principles.  That's a fair criticism to make of her.

But I don't find her broader opinions are contradictory.  She basically supports the Templars in principle, but the more extreme tactics of Meredith make her uncomfortable.  At the end of the game she supports the Templars unless her close relationship with Hawke leads her otherwise.

[Am1vf]

Wulfram wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Hawke IS a mass murderer.

Facepalm. Care to elaborate?

Well, there are quite a few quests that would legally constitute murder.  Even if the people being killed are generally pretty nasty guys.

Hawke can be a pretty straightforward murderer.  Like killing Javaris Tintop.  Or some of the things you do for that mercenary guy.  Of course that wouldn't apply to all Hawkes, but Aveline doesn't report even the really nasty ones.

But, for some more commonly done examples, just because the guys Gamlen sold your house to are slavers, doesn't give you the legal right to kill them.  And Fenris' recruitment quest - you break into someones house in order to steal some lyrium on behalf of a smuggler and then kill the people who intervene.

Limiting to main quests, killing Templars who are attempting to carry out their duty by arresting Anders would probably be legally counted as murder.  The Tal-Vashoth you kill in Blackpowder Promise you don't really have a legal basis for doing so, even if they are bandits and murderers.

One of my main concerns with every bioware game is how much killing there is and how casual they are about it. It's not that I'm against violence in videogames or anything like that, it's that it cheapens life, death and murder. In Bloodrayne you kill a lot of people, but it makes sense because of the context of the story and the main character; in DA][ violence is meaningless, it doesn't mean that Hawke is a mass murderer, only that biware thought you would get bored if you didn't have anything to kill for a while. 
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god" Jean Rostand. In any case I think this would be the kind of thinking they want you to have about Hawke, with the whole "champion" thing. I suppose it makes some sense in the world of thedas, being a skilled killer can keep you and your friends alive, as it did after Lothering and in later quests. But I don't like it.

[Bionuts]

Am1_vf wrote..

One of my main concerns with every bioware game is how much killing there is and how casual they are about it. 

A million times this.

[AresKeith]

How is Aveline a symbol of hope?

[Bionuts]

AresKeith wrote...

How is Aveline a symbol of hope?

Because she is "what ought to be", a ray of hope, a prothean beacon, the gentle flower Alistair's been thumbing, etc. Can't you see? She is what Thedas should strive to be. A corrupt guard who not only allows abominations, crime lords, serial killers, and blood mages to run free, but also participates in their activities.

The dirty little feign

[Asdrubael Vect]

who even cares about Aveline? she was just a member of Kirkwall cityguard

[Lord Raijin]

Star fury wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

What crimes of Varric does Aveline cover up?

Calling Hawke mass murderer is one of the most bull**** things too. And I don't even like Hawke.

Hawke IS a mass murderer.

Facepalm. Care to elaborate?

If Hawke was emplyeed by the Red Iron mercenaries, Meeran would then hire you to kill Lord Harimann. If you complete the quest by killing him it would be consider as murder. You can only imagine how many more people like Lord Hairmann Hawke killed over the past year as he was in servitude to pay off a debt. Ironically Aveline does nothing about it.

Hawke murderers Ser Otto Alrik, a high ranked officer. Granted the man was an ****, but that doesn't give Hawke the right to kill him. Theirs legal ways to handle him, and killing him isn't the solution.

Hawke murders a captive Quarni to prove himself to Ser Varnell... which then causes him kill the rest of the captive Quarni, as they sought revenge... which makes the Quarni situation even worst than it already has... especially since you encourage the viscount to burn the bodies to cover it up.

Hawke was responsible for the Quarni to attack the city, which cost the lives of many... which included the Viscount.

Hawke breaks into peoples houses late at night, and he can steal the owners items.

Hawke aids Anders to find his "rare" ingredients to create his magic bomb thus killing the Grand Cleric and so many others inside the Chantry at the time. So yeah Hawke rightfully deserves to have the mantle of "Mass murderer"

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 23 juillet 2013 - 07:38 .

[TribolMan]

About the whole "Hawke is a mass murderer" thing, what comes to my mind is a scene in act3 were a group of bandits ambush you and their leader says you killed his brother and now wants revenge and if you choose the "funny" option Hawke will say something like "Well, I do kill a lot of people, witch one was your brother again?"

[Bionuts]

Hawke has to be the worst "champion" ever. He's killed more people in his own city than anyone else rofl.

[garrusfan1]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

What crimes of Varric does Aveline cover up?

Calling Hawke mass murderer is one of the most bull**** things too. And I don't even like Hawke.

Hawke IS a mass murderer.

Facepalm. Care to elaborate?

If Hawke was emplyeed by the Red Iron mercenaries, Meeran would then hire you to kill Lord Harimann. If you complete the quest by killing him it would be consider as murder. You can only imagine how many more people like Lord Hairmann Hawke killed over the past year as he was in servitude to pay off a debt. Ironically Aveline does nothing about it.

Hawke murderers Ser Otto Alrik, a high ranked officer. Granted the man was an ****, but that doesn't give Hawke the right to kill him. Theirs legal ways to handle him, and killing him isn't the solution.

Hawke murders a captive Quarni to prove himself to Ser Varnell... which then causes him kill the rest of the captive Quarni, as they sought revenge... which makes the Quarni situation even worst than it already has... especially since you encourage the viscount to burn the bodies to cover it up.

Hawke was responsible for the Quarni to attack the city, which cost the lives of many... which included the Viscount.

Hawke breaks into peoples houses late at night, and he can steal the owners items.

Hawke aids Anders to find his "rare" ingredients to create his magic bomb thus killing the Grand Cleric and so many others inside the Chantry at the time. So yeah Hawke rightfully deserves to have the mantle of "Mass murderer"

wow where to start? alright ser Alrick would have gotten away with it no problem and if you think he hawk had no right to kill that sick f*** then I don't know why you can say hawk is bad. hawk helps anders and doesn't know what is going on so he didn't know what anders was gonna do and may not even have helped anders. How was the qunari attacking hawks fault  (unless hawk was an aggressive hawk and provoked them). My hawks actually tried to stop the attack. the qunari had been planning the attack for a while by the way. How does stealing equal mass murder that is just idiotic. hawk joining the red irons was something he had to do (or join the smuggler) so that shouldn't count. the only one you have that holds any weight is when hawk killed the qunari when he was at the rally where ser varnell had them tied up and only an aggressive hawk can do that.

[garrusfan1]

alright it is a video game

[iOnlySignIn]

Lord Raijin wrote...

1. Scientifically proven? This isn't real life Were talking about a fictional game. No need to bring science involved in a fictional world because it's irrelvent. An addition do you even know what an Abomination is? If not go to http://dragonage.wik...iki/Abomination and read some lore about them before you start picturing them as innocent little flowers that can't hurt a fly. While you're at it go to the Templar Hall and go speak with Knight-Commander Meredith regarding to her past, and her sister.... better yet I've already done the portion of your homework http://youtu.be/JR8MZmzZ25k?t=1m45s Listen and heed.

2. "It proved nothing. He didn't harm anyone that I care about at the end of Act 3."  It proved that he was a psyhotic mage that needed to be executed or sent to the circle prison. Just because he didn't kill any of your love ones or care about doesn't make it right. While I do not fully agree with the Grand Cleric does not justiy Anders killing her PLUS babies and children that were being cared for in the Chantry... Oh yes The Chantry takes care of orphaned children... So your little Anders became a mass child murderer. I guess that means nothing to you because after all you don't know these children that became a victim of this Abomination. This proves my point that allowing abominations to run freely in the city is not such a good idea.

I know all of the things you listed already.

I just don't see Anders (or Abominations in general) as worse than an average person from Thedas. In fact I find your discrimination against Abominations quite racist and absurd.

[Lord Raijin]

Bionuts wrote...

Hawke has to be the worst "champion" ever. He's killed more people in his own city than anyone else rofl.

And people think Meredith is the crazy one... She couldnt be more right at the end of ACT 3 if you sided with the Templars. Meredith has more common sense than anyone else in the game. I would've wanted her to become the new viscount.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 23 juillet 2013 - 09:11 .

[Lord Raijin]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

1. Scientifically proven? This isn't real life Were talking about a fictional game. No need to bring science involved in a fictional world because it's irrelvent. An addition do you even know what an Abomination is? If not go to http://dragonage.wik...iki/Abomination and read some lore about them before you start picturing them as innocent little flowers that can't hurt a fly. While you're at it go to the Templar Hall and go speak with Knight-Commander Meredith regarding to her past, and her sister.... better yet I've already done the portion of your homework http://youtu.be/JR8MZmzZ25k?t=1m45s Listen and heed.

2. "It proved nothing. He didn't harm anyone that I care about at the end of Act 3."  It proved that he was a psyhotic mage that needed to be executed or sent to the circle prison. Just because he didn't kill any of your love ones or care about doesn't make it right. While I do not fully agree with the Grand Cleric does not justiy Anders killing her PLUS babies and children that were being cared for in the Chantry... Oh yes The Chantry takes care of orphaned children... So your little Anders became a mass child murderer. I guess that means nothing to you because after all you don't know these children that became a victim of this Abomination. This proves my point that allowing abominations to run freely in the city is not such a good idea.

I know all of the things you listed already.

I just don't see Anders (or Abominations in general) as worse than an average person from Thedas. In fact I find your discrimination against Abominations quite racist and absurd.

Apparently you don't otherwise you wouldn't had made those ignorant statements from your earlier post.

If I... who show my dislike of demons is consider rascim then I guess I'm a flat out racist.  Please call up the Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton version of demons representation, and let them harass me for a while.

[Medhia Nox]

Well, Aveline is one of two persons who's company I actually enjoyed in DA 2. The other would be Varric.

Guess I'm just not into damaged folks.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 23 juillet 2013 - 09:18 .

[Angrywolves]

me either.
Nonsensical talk about hawke being a mass murderer.
It's a Bioware videogame that sadly is largely regarded as a failure.
Not the best Bioware rpg ever made.
Not worth getting worked up about.

[Am1vf]

Lord Raijin wrote...
(...)
If I... who show my dislike of demons is consider rascim then I guess I'm a flat out racist.  Please call up the Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton version of demons representation, and let them harass me for a while.

Technically, yes you are. Which doesn't necessarily mean you are wrong (this is why I dislike the existance of "evil" races in fantasy worlds).

Modifié par Am1_vf, 24 juillet 2013 - 01:02 .

[Zeldrik1389]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

[I know all of the things you listed already.

I just don't see Anders (or Abominations in general) as worse than an average person from Thedas. In fact I find your discrimination against Abominations quite racist and absurd.

So you think Thedas is full of people who goes around blowing up buildings and killing people?? Seriously? Did you play a different game than me because I'm pretty sure in my Dragon age games, there are farmers who runs for their lives during the war, Chantry brothers and sisters who care for the refugees, children who try to be brave to save their family, and a lot more. And they are AVERAGE people from Thedas. They don't blowing up innocences to prove a stupid point. Please read the lore about Abormination again. They aren't Average person. They are controled by evil beings, and if you don't understand how dangerous an abormination is, I suggest you to go back to DA:O, and play the Circle quest, or Redcliffe chain quest again and see for yourself. Aborminations are dangerous, period. Discimination against Abormination? In that case, I'd rather being racist than putting thousands of lives in danger.

[Bionuts]

Discrimination against abominations? Rofl

[Lord Raijin]

I think iOnlySignIn is just trolling us that's all. I don't take any of what he/she post seriously anymore.



My mage shows obvious signs of  being racist... plus hes a bastard for blackmailing a grieving Templar over his Abomination daughters death.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 24 juillet 2013 - 02:01 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

[I know all of the things you listed already.

I just don't see Anders (or Abominations in general) as worse than an average person from Thedas. In fact I find your discrimination against Abominations quite racist and absurd.

So you think Thedas is full of people who goes around blowing up buildings and killing people?? Seriously? Did you play a different game than me because I'm pretty sure in my Dragon age games, there are farmers who runs for their lives during the war, Chantry brothers and sisters who care for the refugees, children who try to be brave to save their family, and a lot more. And they are AVERAGE people from Thedas. They don't blowing up innocences to prove a stupid point. Please read the lore about Abormination again. They aren't Average person. They are controled by evil beings, and if you don't understand how dangerous an abormination is, I suggest you to go back to DA:O, and play the Circle quest, or Redcliffe chain quest again and see for yourself. Aborminations are dangerous, period. Discimination against Abormination? In that case, I'd rather being racist than putting thousands of lives in danger.

And i think you simple don't understood what Anders want to do let me explain.Anders doesn't want prove any point because he tried that already and didn't work , anders want start war and abolish system what oppresses mages in society nobody give crap what happened to mages he blowed up bulding oragniastion who is behind this and because there were stupid Elthina who doesn't want do crap about that hiding behind god will and allowing to great suffering.And no he isn't only one who kick the dog Loghain , Chantry , Templars , Common peoples who attack mages or elves because racism ,Petrice , Grey wardens , racist elves like velanna and 1000 others .Anders isn't abomination not more than wynne because they aren't monsters with who have demon complete control , abomination its something what only goal is killing everything on their way for the evilz and bring more abominations into world. Anders is another well-intentioned extremist  we have much of them in DA.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 24 juillet 2013 - 02:24 .

[Usefull_idiot]

I hate Aveline. She's a straight up nark.

[Vort3xX]

Aveline dying would make my day but pls BioWare let it be by the players oh wait DA2 is over and i don't even play it, last hope is KILL her in DA:I.

[Boycott Bioware]

Aveline is the most corrupt guard ever

i. Simply not interested to investigate Ninnette case until Hawke take the job, and that case lead to Emeric investigation that pass on to Hawke, Aveline saw all evidences, saw a man running away in the foundry then there are demons, shades, and human remains...in beginning of Act 2 she simply said there is no evidence and city guard refuse to investigate, she sent Hawke to make Emeric shut up...Hawke handle the case and facing demons, abominations and a lot of evidences that lead to the guy D'Puis who is a Blood Mage...then it is all lead to Hawke mom death....even you choose aggressive option toward Aveline, she just pretend it's nothing and not her fault...

ii. Kalder case, it is not a place for Hawke to become executioner, we cannot simply kill a person who asked to be killed, no matter someone say he's a rapist or murderer, and then it revealed that he is a son of influential people, still it is not the place for use to kill that person...we have no authority. Hawke have no authority to execute Kalder. Even if the legal office in Kirkwal is corrupt, still it is not Hawke business, it is someone else else business, Hawke can act as witness later. But Aveline done nothing when Hawke kill Kalder...if Aveline is "everything must face law and order" type of person, why make exception on Kalder case?

iii. It was Hawke who clean up Kirkwal streets. not Aveline and her guards

iv. In Wounded Coast, one of new guard officer facing dangerous criminals, got pinned down desperately waiting for reinforcements, Aveline have no idea about it, being there just because following Hawke there and stumble upon the thing, and then Hawke who act like a knight in shining armor give inspiration to the guardsmen...lol

Modifié par Qistina, 24 juillet 2013 - 10:19 .