242 réponses à ce sujet

[Magdalena11]

One of the best lines in DA2 is if Isabela returns in Demands of the Qun and you bring Aveline along. "If anyone kicks her [donkey] it's going to be me."

[Ziggeh]

Qistina wrote...
Aveline is the most corrupt guard ever

I don't understand your concept of corruption.

With the exception of not accepting the corrupt legal system, none of those are even slightly related. 

Modifié par Ziggeh, 24 juillet 2013 - 11:09 .

[Ieldra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

1. Scientifically proven? This isn't real life Were talking about a fictional game. No need to bring science involved in a fictional world because it's irrelvent. An addition do you even know what an Abomination is? If not go to http://dragonage.wik...iki/Abomination and read some lore about them before you start picturing them as innocent little flowers that can't hurt a fly. While you're at it go to the Templar Hall and go speak with Knight-Commander Meredith regarding to her past, and her sister.... better yet I've already done the portion of your homework http://youtu.be/JR8MZmzZ25k?t=1m45s Listen and heed.

2. "It proved nothing. He didn't harm anyone that I care about at the end of Act 3."  It proved that he was a psyhotic mage that needed to be executed or sent to the circle prison. Just because he didn't kill any of your love ones or care about doesn't make it right. While I do not fully agree with the Grand Cleric does not justiy Anders killing her PLUS babies and children that were being cared for in the Chantry... Oh yes The Chantry takes care of orphaned children... So your little Anders became a mass child murderer. I guess that means nothing to you because after all you don't know these children that became a victim of this Abomination. This proves my point that allowing abominations to run freely in the city is not such a good idea.

I know all of the things you listed already.

I just don't see Anders (or Abominations in general) as worse than an average person from Thedas. In fact I find your discrimination against Abominations quite racist and absurd.

Not sure how all that is relevant to this topic, but I agree that "abomination is as abomination does", as your Warden can tell Wynne in DAO. A union of mortal and spirit as such is not more or less good or evil than the entities that make it up, and doesn't deserve to be summarily labeled with a pejorative term like "abomination".

On Anders, I think people who kill him at the end are fully justified in doing so, but his being inhabited by a spirit should not be relevant to that decision, rather than his (their?) actions. I also think letting him live is a plausible option for a pro-mage Hawke, though perhaps not the best even then in strategic terms.   

[Boycott Bioware]

Ziggeh wrote...
I don't understand your concept of corruption.

With the exception of not accepting the corrupt legal system, none of those are even slightly related.

Corruption is anything that not running to it's norm.

A guard captain should know that Ninnette case is not simple case and investigate further. There is a murderer on the loose, and is involve magic of some sort because the one originally investigate it is a Templar then there are demons and decapitated human organs. Cannot just assume things, but look at facts.

Then a magistrate hired a nobody to take in a criminal, there are guards outside the ruin, she's a guard captain, she even abuse her position to make the guards silence with Hawke want to do if Hawke already decide to kill Kalder before going into the ruin, she say no one should report it. Then she allow Hawke to kill Kalder simply dismiss everything that is justice. Kalder maybe crazy, he maybe sick, he maybe not. Murder done by crazy people is not the same with murder done by sane people. To kill a crazy person who ask to be killed because he's a murderer is not justice.

Maybe Kalder can get away because he's magistrate son, but there is another way to deal with the matter, it is just poor writing. (edit : Aveline could report it to the Viscount, or keep it in the record should there is future murder it can link to the magistrate son, or think of something else to bring justice)

Then how come a guard captain doesn't know her guards in distress and asking for reinforcement? Aveline and Hawke is there just by coincidence, we can say Aveline don't know it because hanging out with Hawke all the time, what if her guards are killed there? Who is to be blame? Aveline just cannot say "I don't know!", she must take responsible, it is her responsibility.

Modifié par Qistina, 24 juillet 2013 - 12:48 .

[Ziggeh]

Qistina wrote...

Corruption is anything that not running to it's norm.

That's the definition of deviation, not corruption.
Even if I concede that she's ignoring information, this makes her incompetent, not corrupt.

[Bionuts]

She IS corrupt. She covers up for a murderer, criminal, abomination, blood mage, etc.

She also participates in their activities.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Blood Mages and Abominations are not technically her department, and she is not under any obligations to actually report them in to the Templars, though I'm sure taht is the prefered action. And since she is the guard captain, she gets to decide which "criminals" are harmless enoguh to let go. Modern police forces, let hundreds of criminals go every single day, becasue they are not actually the "big fish" and that locking them up achieves nothing. Besides, Varric is hardly this hardened criminal you claim him to be. I don't actually recall him doing a lot of criminal activities at all, sure some of his actions are shady, but often not straight up illegal.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 24 juillet 2013 - 02:50 .

[Bionuts]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Blood Mages and Abominations are not technically her department, and she is not under any obligations to actually report them in to the Templars, though I'm sure taht is the prefered action. And since she is the guard captain, she gets to decide which "criminals" are harmless enoguh to let go. Modern police forces, let hundreds of criminals go every single day, becasue they are not actually the "big fish" and that locking them up achieves nothing. Besides, Varric is hardly this hardened criminal you claim him to be. I don't actually recall him doing a lot of criminal activities at all, sure some of his actions are shady, but often not straight up illegal.

She also participates in their activities. Unless you think Bioware made her a companion for the lulz.

And Hawke is a pretty big criminal (depending on your choices), and Aveline was written to cover up for her murders.

Serial killers are no joke. You think any police officer that is friends with a serial killer, covers up for a serial killer, and even participates in their activities is a good officer?

[schalafi]

We seem to be digging to the bottom of the barrel for subject matter to discuss. Can't we stay on the subject of this forum, which I *thought* was Inquisition?

[Lord Raijin]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Blood Mages and Abominations are not technically her department, and she is not under any obligations to actually report them in to the Templars, though I'm sure taht is the prefered action. And since she is the guard captain, she gets to decide which "criminals" are harmless enoguh to let go. Modern police forces, let hundreds of criminals go every single day, becasue they are not actually the "big fish" and that locking them up achieves nothing. Besides, Varric is hardly this hardened criminal you claim him to be. I don't actually recall him doing a lot of criminal activities at all, sure some of his actions are shady, but often not straight up illegal.

Aveline admitted over a banter that she turns over a hand full of mages to the templars once she became Captain. This tells us right there that she has the authority to arrest mages and take them to the circle. She is the Captain of the guards. She's suppose to protect the city at all cost. The Templars are an added bonus to the city. She has the Templars full cooperation if theirs magic involved in her investigation, and I'm sure that Meredith wouldn't mind if Aveline took some of her men to investigate a crime that's potential magic related. Instead of avoiding the Templars... she should be working with them.

Oh and let not forget how sloppy she handles citizen complaints regarding to her own guards. Remember those “dangerous” elves that Arishok showed us. I quoted dangerous because Aveline painted these elves as fugitives for doing nothing wrong but protecting their sister from getting raped by her own guards. They filed up a complaint, and nothing was accomplished, and so they decided to kill the abusive guard as a last desperate act. They were forced to go to Arishok for protection from the city guards soon after.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 24 juillet 2013 - 07:13 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Of course she got authority to arrest them. But that doesn't mean she has to. Templars are the ones who have to capture Apostates, not City Guards. And there are a lot of things Aveline should have done, but right now I am just disputing your claims to her corruption.

The Elves WERE fugitives, they were being hunted by the City Guard and sought asylum with the Qunari. Pretty much fits the definition of fugitive.

And whenever Aveline follows HAwke around and participates, she always voices her disapproval. And the only reason she stays around with a criminal Hawke, is because the game demands that she does.

[Bionuts]

Saying "sorry" doesn't justify participating in mass murder.

The writers demand that Aveline participate in those activities with Hawke. The writers demand that Aveline cover up for an abomination, blood mage, criminal, and a serial killer. That is how she is written, as much as her being guard-captain, a widow, a Fereldan, etc. She was written to be that way.

[Lord Raijin]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Of course she got authority to arrest them. But that doesn't mean she has to. Templars are the ones who have to capture Apostates, not City Guards. And there are a lot of things Aveline should have done, but right now I am just disputing your claims to her corruption.

The Elves WERE fugitives, they were being hunted by the City Guard and sought asylum with the Qunari. Pretty much fits the definition of fugitive.

And whenever Aveline follows HAwke around and participates, she always voices her disapproval. And the only reason she stays around with a criminal Hawke, is because the game demands that she does.

While the Templars are the ones to capture Apostates, it is the City Guards that should cooperate with the Templars; to work together to protect the city against potential dangers. Yes even an innocent looking mage who you never expect to cause chaos could very well pose a great risk to the city, and thus it becomes the responsibility of the guards to capture apostates.

You would think Aveline being married to a Templar would understand the necessity of the order, and the importance it is to capture apostates. Meredith certainly understands this necessity as her own full blood sister became possessed by a demon therefor becoming an Abomination that killed her entire family plus 70 innocence. Meredith barely made it out a live without the help from the Templars.

Base on what I wrote and what others here on this thread wrote about her (Fact is a fact) gives her the rightful title of being a corrupted city guard.  She is no better than her previous captain that she sent to prison over curruption.

[Angrywolves]

It's a lot of silly posts by players who hate Aveline.
One of the numbered mods should lock the thread since it has nothing to do with DAI.

[Bionuts]

Angrywolves wrote...

It's a lot of silly posts by players who hate Aveline.

Tis' silly to deny facts.

Facts:

1. Aveline participates in the activities of a serial killer.

2. Aveline allows an abomination to run free.

3. Aveline participates in criminal activity.

Those are facts. What opinion one has, interpretion thereof, is dependant on the person.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Fact, Aveline only participates if you bring her along, and if such, then you are roleplaying rather poorly.
Fact, if you still complain, then it should be about your own inadequacies regarding roleplaying.
Fact, these aren't at all fact, but purely rethorical acts of trying to reinforce my argument.

This however is a fact: Stating "fact" before your statement, does not make it any more factual, and is about the rethorical level of a 15 year old.

Aveline doesn't throw Hawke in jail if he is a criminal, because that would obviously be a very boring game. This is then explained with her believing she owes Hawke, for saving her life.
Varric is not a "Mastermind Criminal of Ultimate Evil" as you try to put it. ACtually we see very little to none, actual criminal activity from him.
Merrill is rather would appear rather harmless. And since Aveline isn't, nor is she trained to be, a Templar, she doesn't have to report Merrill or anytihng. Until you provide proof, that this is indeed required of her by law, and not just by presure from Templars, your entire argument will remain flawed.
Anders, fall into the same category as Merrill. He appears rather harmless. He is actually even doing some good for the residents of Kirkwall, with his clinic. Untill the very end, the most "dastardly evil act" Adners ever commited, was litter the streets with his pro-mage propaganda.

Being a law enforcer, is not neccesarily about following the law by the letter. It is about making a better society for everyone. Obviously Aveline believed, by letting these individuals be, Kirkwall would be a better place. There are simply no signs of corruption. Either you don't really know what corruption means, or else you are just trying to bash Aveline, based on some sort of misguided hatred towards her. Either way, the entire discussion is moot, since she is very clearly NOT corrupt. Incompetent? Perhaps, it remains debatable. But she is not corrupt. Period.

[Bionuts]

1. I rarely take Aveline with me (because she's guard-captain), but the few times I do she participates mass murder.

Well, only an idiot would deny that Aveline covers up for a serial killer Hawke when she does. Tis' a fact. Denying it is stupid.

Aveline was written to cover up for Hawke, and also participate in mass murder. These are facts. Since they're right in front of your damn face.

[Lord Raijin]

Angrywolves wrote...

It's a lot of silly posts by players who hate Aveline.
One of the numbered mods should lock the thread since it has nothing to do with DAI.

The only silly posts that I've seen here are yours... for not contributing.

[Am1vf]

Come on, you guys have been saying the same things over and over. Can't you just agree to disagree and change topic?

[Bionuts]

Am1_vf wrote...

Come on, you guys have been saying the same things over and over. Can't you just agree to disagree and change topic?

You're probably right. However, when a person keeps telling you the sun doesn't exist when it's right in your damn face... can get pretty annoying.

[Lord Raijin]

Am1_vf wrote...

Come on, you guys have been saying the same things over and over. Can't you just agree to disagree and change topic?

You can't help but to repeat yourself when people fail to acknowledge the facts. How can anyone say that Aveline isn't currupted when the cold heart facts is scattered on the table for all to see? Don't get me wrong I use to adore this charecter until my 5th game play. I realize that she could've prevented a lot of thing from going sour. She could've prevented the Quarni attack and she could've prevented an abomination from blowing up the chantry at the end.



If only Knight-Commander Meredith had done this sooner. She speaks the truth.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 25 juillet 2013 - 05:03 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

LoL meredith were mad woman even if you sided with her everytime she thinks that hawke is diabolical mastermind and her peoples are controled by blood mages.And now you use as authority woman who burned city because she want just slain mages.

[Lord Raijin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LoL meredith were mad woman even if you sided with her everytime she thinks that hawke is diabolical mastermind and her peoples are controled by blood mages.And now you use as authority woman who burned city because she want just slain mages.

She did not burned the city. The only structual damage she caused was in the gallows. Anders blew up the Chantry all thanks to the help of a certain Guard Captain, for allowing him to roam freely in the city and not turning him in to the proper authorities After the Chantry was destoryed Meredith had every right to delcare the Right of Annulment. The First Enchanter was a secret blood mage who was aiding a serial killer mage who killed Hawkes mother.
He admits that he hid Quentin's research so that he couldn't give Meredith more ammo to give to the Grand Cleric and to the divine.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lord Raijin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LoL meredith were mad woman even if you sided with her everytime she thinks that hawke is diabolical mastermind and her peoples are controled by blood mages.And now you use as authority woman who burned city because she want just slain mages.

She did not burned the city. The only structual damage she caused was in the gallows. Anders blew up the Chantry all thanks to the help of a certain Guard Captain, for allowing him to roam freely in the city and not turning him in to the proper authorities After the Chantry was destoryed Meredith had every right to delcare the Right of Annulment. The First Enchanter was a secret blood mage who was aiding a serial killer mage who killed Hawkes mother.
He admits that he hid Quentin's research so that he couldn't give Meredith more ammo to give to the Grand Cleric and to the divine.

Yes she did
"Meredith had every right to delcare the Right of Annulment."
She didn't even hide it at the beginning she states that she wants kill mages because poeples will want revenge not because they are blood mages at truth she want every poor excuse to kill them and you even said after the chantry was destroyed who was blown up by anders.

Orsino admit it after meredith killed all mages so she din't know and even going by your logic its like declare the Right of Annulment because jowan actions.

Funny you support one of most crazy and fanatical templars in city where templars are extremely corrupt but you have some against guard who practically do more to help city than templars in kirkwall.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:38 .

[Ashelsu]

To be fair, Anders is protected by plot. You can tell Cullen in Act 3, that Anders is dangerous, arrest him, but it changes nothing. Mage Hawke, Anders and Merrill running freely in the city governed by templar dictator (or so we are told), while Bethany is arrested, doesn't make much sense either.
What I can't understand, why Aveline didn't request templars when investigating Kirkwall killer. Emeric would even volunteer for the job.