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[Lord Raijin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LoL meredith were mad woman even if you sided with her everytime she thinks that hawke is diabolical mastermind and her peoples are controled by blood mages.And now you use as authority woman who burned city because she want just slain mages.

She did not burned the city. The only structual damage she caused was in the gallows. Anders blew up the Chantry all thanks to the help of a certain Guard Captain, for allowing him to roam freely in the city and not turning him in to the proper authorities After the Chantry was destoryed Meredith had every right to delcare the Right of Annulment. The First Enchanter was a secret blood mage who was aiding a serial killer mage who killed Hawkes mother.
He admits that he hid Quentin's research so that he couldn't give Meredith more ammo to give to the Grand Cleric and to the divine.

Yes she did
"Meredith had every right to delcare the Right of Annulment."
She didn't even hide it at the beginning she states that she wants kill mages because poeples will want revenge not because they are blood mages at truth she want every poor excuse to kill them and you even said after the chantry was destroyed who was blown up by anders.

Orsino admit it after meredith killed all mages so she din't know and even going by your logic its like declare the Right of Annulment because jowan actions.

Funny you support one of most crazy and fanatical templars in city where templars are extremely corrupt but you have some against guard who practically do more to help city than templars in kirkwall.

Oh yes Meredith certainly had some agenda on her doesn't she? She could've easily accepted Ser Alriks "The Tranquil Solution" however she http://youtu.be/s0yd6LdWnuU?t=3m35s clearly rejected the idea, and so did the Divine.

Most people in Kirkwall either hate the mages http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSVezDaV2E or fear them, and right after Anders blew up the Chantry (You can thank Aveline for this because had she turned him in the first place none of this would've happen) would rise up and want Meredith to sought revenge. It's a typical emotional response from people who recently lost a love one. Anders wanted a war and he now has it. Why is it Meredith's fault for doing what she did? Anders fully provoked it by killing the Grand Cleric and everyone inside, which included babies and children.

So like I said Anders got what he truly wanted... a war. All thanks to the Guard Captain for not turning him in.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 25 juillet 2013 - 07:18 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

"babies and children" it was night only poeples there were templars and priests...
Oh killing non-mages bad killing mages is ok.I thought that your order who you stand before told that templars have to protect mages not kill them because peoples want so she do that against the law.

besides they talk like in this movie when you support meredith not orsino then result is other.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 25 juillet 2013 - 07:28 .

[Zeldrik1389]

Lol we are still going at this? To be honest I've learnt to careless about anything from DA 2. It was obviously rushed and poorly written with tons of plot holes and inconsistencies. Aveline is just one of those "eh?" in that game lol I wonder if she will even appear in DA:I or anything else to be honest. Personally I prefer them to drop every characters from DA 2 and start making new ones, or using the ones from the books, with DA:O characters making cameo here and there. Most DA 2 characters aren't that memorable compare to them anyway

[Lord Raijin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

"babies and children" it was night only poeples there were templars and priests...
Oh killing non-mages bad killing mages is ok.I thought that your order who you stand before told that templars have to protect mages not kill them because peoples want so she do that against the law.

besides this move is when you support meredith not orsino then result is other.

Alistair: So you... mentioned you had a son? What happened to him?

Wynne: I honestly don't know, Alistair. He was... taken
from me. Such births are seldom, as there are ways to prevent it, but it
does happen. And any child born to a Circle mage belongs to the
Chantry.

Alistair: I... didn't know. I'm sorry.

Wynne: It's all right. It was a long time ago. A very long time ago.

Alistair: Couldn't you do something about it?

Wynne: Do what? I was weak from the birthing process and there were... no, there was nothing I could do.

Alistair: Do you think about him?

Wynne: All the time.


Orphan children are sent to the Chantry to be cared for. So yes Anders not only murdered the grand cleric, Templars and a few priests, but he also murdered those orphan children too.

And as a Pro mage (I refuse to play any other class but mage on DA2 and probably on DA: O when I get the damn game) It's hard to side with the mages when the First enchanter was directly at fault for the murder of my mother. He was aiding the serial killer. While I disagree on some things that the Grand Cleric was doing she did not deserved to be slained.

Anders forced me to be on #Team Templars.... even if I'm a mage.

[Melca36]

Lord Raijin wrote...



Most people in Kirkwall either hate the mages http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSVezDaV2E or fear them, and right after Anders blew up the Chantry (You can thank Aveline for this because had she turned him in the first place none of this would've happen) would rise up and want Meredith to sought revenge. It's a typical emotional response from people who recently lost a love one. Anders wanted a war and he now has it. Why is it Meredith's fault for doing what she did? Anders fully provoked it by killing the Grand Cleric and everyone inside, which included babies and children.

So like I said Anders got what he truly wanted... a war. All thanks to the Guard Captain for not turning him in.

Um....Sorry but you are wrong.

http://i1183.photobu...a7.jpg~original


Then there were the other Kirkwall refugees who threatened Hawke because they thought they wanted to Take Anders to the Templars.

Its also a naive assumption to automatically assume that everyone fears mages

And the games mistakes in development (Not including normal-neutral mages) conditioned people in believing all mages are evil.

[Melca36]

Lord Raijin wrote...



And as a Pro mage (I refuse to play any other class but mage on DA2 and probably on DA: O when I get the damn game) It's hard to side with the mages when the First enchanter was directly at fault for the murder of my mother. He was aiding the serial killer. While I disagree on some things that the Grand Cleric was doing she did not deserved to be slained.

Anders forced me to be on #Team Templars.... even if I'm a mage.

Another game development error. If they wanted to show the Chantry as sympathetic...they should have NEVER designed it to be so lifeless.  There was more children in Darktown. Darktown had more life in the Chantry. I had more sympathy for them.

And Elthina had a martyr complex. SHE GOT WHAT SHE WANTED!

[Melca36]

Bionuts wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Come on, you guys have been saying the same things over and over. Can't you just agree to disagree and change topic?

You're probably right. However, when a person keeps telling you the sun doesn't exist when it's right in your damn face... can get pretty annoying.

This thread is ridiculous because Aveline was written in the way she was written.   Its part of the game mechanic and couldnt change anyway. Its pointless arguing about something that will HAVE no bearing on the next game. And it just gave Aveline haters an excuse to bash her.

[TheKomandorShepard]

directly?! you know even what that mean? Directly its when somone kill someone himself. Orphans are send to orphanages not to the chantry.It is hardly being pro mage when you support someone killing them because peoples will want revenge and Right of Annulment also kills childrens so now you are being hypocrite ...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Bionuts wrote...

1. I rarely take Aveline with me (because she's guard-captain), but the few times I do she participates mass murder.

Well, only an idiot would deny that Aveline covers up for a serial killer Hawke when she does. Tis' a fact. Denying it is stupid.

Aveline was written to cover up for Hawke, and also participate in mass murder. These are facts. Since they're right in front of your damn face.

And again you show an astounding lack of understanding what the word "corruption" means. I am not saying Aveline was a good guard captain, or that she was incompetent for that matter. All I am saying, is that you are wrong in saying she was corrupt.

[Boycott Bioware]

Incompetent is the right word maybe?

[Magdalena11]

Elethina's ineffectiveness is a bit of a mystery to me. She is the grand cleric, one of the most important people in the Free Marches, and her response to everything is stay neutral and do nothing? If she was so watered down how did she rise to a position of power in the first place? Some people may have greatness thrust upon them but from the importance of the chantry I don't think someone without vision and ambition would rise at all.

[Magdalena11]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

directly?! you know even what that mean? Directly its when somone kill someone himself. Orphans are send to orphanages not to the chantry.It is hardly being pro mage when you support someone killing them because peoples will want revenge and Right of Annulment also kills childrens so now you are being hypocrite ...

What is your source for this wisdom?  In DAO Wynne states that when she was a rebellious teenager, the revered mother had been given to the chantry as a child just as she was sent to the circle.  The only orphanage mentioned in game is the Elven orphanage in Denerim, which has been unoccupied since the beginning of the riots shortly after Loghain rose to power.  In addition to Wynne's reference to the fate of her son and the origin of the revered mother there is the story of how Wynne first came to the tower, as an orphan who'd been living in a barn, not an orphanage.  I think the chantry served a function similar to the medieval church, as the charity and good works department for the community.  There is a long history of unwanted children being given to the church to raise.

[Bionuts]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And again you show an astounding lack of understanding what the word "corruption" means. I am not saying Aveline was a good guard captain, or that she was incompetent for that matter. All I am saying, is that you are wrong in saying she was corrupt.

A police officer that is friends with a serial killer, covers up for a serial killer, and participates in criminal activity is certainly corrupt. If not, then it cannot be denied she is horrible at her job.

Melca36 wrote...

This thread is ridiculous because Aveline
was written in the way she was written.   Its part of the game mechanic
and couldnt change anyway. Its pointless arguing about something that
will HAVE no bearing on the next game. And it just gave Aveline haters
an excuse to bash her.

Of course she's written in the way she's written. Wtf are you evn saying? Do you even know what the conversation is about?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Magdalena11 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

directly?! you know even what that mean? Directly its when somone kill someone himself. Orphans are send to orphanages not to the chantry.It is hardly being pro mage when you support someone killing them because peoples will want revenge and Right of Annulment also kills childrens so now you are being hypocrite ...

What is your source for this wisdom?  In DAO Wynne states that when she was a rebellious teenager, the revered mother had been given to the chantry as a child just as she was sent to the circle.  The only orphanage mentioned in game is the Elven orphanage in Denerim, which has been unoccupied since the beginning of the riots shortly after Loghain rose to power.  In addition to Wynne's reference to the fate of her son and the origin of the revered mother there is the story of how Wynne first came to the tower, as an orphan who'd been living in a barn, not an orphanage.  I think the chantry served a function similar to the medieval church, as the charity and good works department for the community.  There is a long history of unwanted children being given to the church to raise.

Wynne hide herself because she was a mage and wasn't discover and orphanage exist only in cities not small towns."had been given to the chantry" given and orphan are two other stuff i guess that in religious society such thing is honor.Elven orphanage is an example that such things exist in societes , i bet there are orphanages like in skyrim where still some childrens are given to temples.    

[legbamel]

I think I missed a couple of pages. How is Hawke a serial killer when he or she is killing bandits and Tal-Vashoth who attack first? He or she can do some nutty things, evem some mean ones, but compare Hawke's actions to those of the man who killed Leandra. Quentin is a serial killer and Aveline certainly isn't friends with him. You might term Hawke murderous or psychotic or even sociopathic but serial killer? Nope.

That said, you are applying real-world morality to a setting and story that requires you, as the PC, to kill constantly to progress. Blaming Aveline for not trying to stop that is just silly. Blaming her for not paying more attention to the claims avout a real serial killer is a much more defensible, if still debatable, position.

[Bionuts]

legbamel wrote...

I think I missed a couple of pages. How is Hawke a serial killer when he or she is killing bandits and Tal-Vashoth who attack first? He or she can do some nutty things, evem some mean ones, but compare Hawke's actions to those of the man who killed Leandra. Quentin is a serial killer and Aveline certainly isn't friends with him. You might term Hawke murderous or psychotic or even sociopathic but serial killer? Nope.

That said, you are applying real-world morality to a setting and story that requires you, as the PC, to kill constantly to progress. Blaming Aveline for not trying to stop that is just silly. Blaming her for not paying more attention to the claims avout a real serial killer is a much more defensible, if still debatable, position.

Lord Harrinman, Lord Harrowmant, siding with Petrice, Friedrich, etc. If you work for the Red Iron then you'll be killing tons of people, as well.

Aveline was written to cover up for Hawke's crimes, as well as participate. The writers demand it.

[Ashelsu]

legbamel wrote...
you are applying real-world morality to a setting and story that requires you, as the PC, to kill constantly to progress. Blaming Aveline for not trying to stop that is just silly. Blaming her for not paying more attention to the claims avout a real serial killer is a much more defensible, if still debatable, position.

This. It's like preaching about human rights and social justice in, say, 16th century.
Also everybody in Kirkwall was either incopetent, or just crazy.

[Am1vf]

Ashelsu wrote...

legbamel wrote...
you are applying real-world morality to a setting and story that requires you, as the PC, to kill constantly to progress. Blaming Aveline for not trying to stop that is just silly. Blaming her for not paying more attention to the claims avout a real serial killer is a much more defensible, if still debatable, position.

This. It's like preaching about human rights and social justice in, say, 16th century.
Also everybody in Kirkwall was either incopetent, or just crazy.

More like preaching decorum to Vikings in my oppinion.

[Ashelsu]

All right, like preaching about rights of Native Americans to conquistadores or explaining to Henry VIII that he is not a good husband. And his wives' lawyers were really bad.

Modifié par Ashelsu, 25 juillet 2013 - 03:28 .

[Bionuts]

I highly doubt a guard covering for, and participating in the activities of, a serial killer is acceptable in the DA universe.

Highly doubt it. Unless the killer is a noble, but even Hawke isn't a noble until later in the game

[Marakov7]

Bionuts wrote...

I highly doubt a guard covering for, and participating in the activities of, a serial killer is acceptable in the DA universe.

Highly doubt it. Unless the killer is a noble, but even Hawke isn't a noble until later in the game

Plus she had red hair that she sometimes wore in braids as a child and when she ran around the village they streamed behind her as all the little boys ran away screaming for mercy...she was a terrorizer! And that goat she wanted for the dowry? In reality, she wanted it so she could sacrifice it on a harvest moon, strip down to her smallclothes, cover herself in blood, and run around Lowtown doing demony things! And...and she often enjoyed eating toast covered in peach marmalade in the morning and EVERYBODY knows that this often used to settle a person's stomach after a night of drinking the blood of innocent children!

She was a red-headed, blood-drinking, running around in her small clothes at midnight, demony-doing terrorizer! It's so obvious. Once I was blind, but now I see!

[Am1vf]

Yep, all redheads are like that.

[Ashelsu]

I would rather compare Aveline with a sheriff in the Wild West, than a modern policewoman. Also Hawke's serialkillness is relative and depends on the player's decisions.
^^ ginger kids don't have souls.

[legbamel]

I see the light! Aveline is evil incarnate! Hawke's killings were all part of her nefarious plot!

[Am1vf]

Aveline thricked Varric into telling Cassandra it was all Hawkes fault. With blood magic!