248 réponses à ce sujet

[Neon Rising Winter]

Having thought about it my problem with your suggestion is it's so vague. You're suggesting every dysfunctional character trait as a possibility and then throwing in the kitchen sink for good measure.

Things like lies, betrayal, cheating - these, great. These have the potential to be interesting and forward the plot. It looks like a big, epic type plot from the trailer, and these are traits that fit well with big, epic type themes.

All this stalking, abusive relationship malarkey however is being phrased in a way that sounds like you're going to spend half the game dealing with the equivalent of a tearful 2am phone conversation about how someone's SO is doing them wrong, or why their family is driving them insane. Which of course could be handled in a mature way, but that won't stop it being annoying. I mean who has not at some point in a Bioware game wanted to slap one of the characters and tell them to stop whinging. And that's without it being taken to extremes.

It's very hard to agree with what you're suggesting, simply because you're suggesting so many different things at once.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 26 juillet 2013 - 01:49 .

[Nefla]

Am1_vf wrote...

Nefla wrote...

So you want one over the top, unbelievable, angsty, butthurt, abusive, murderous, possibly rapist companion who is even worse than the ones we have...what would that add? A character like that should be locked up and there is no believable reason to have them accompany you. That's called bad writing, go read one of the hundreds of awful fanfics that already characterize the companions that way.

I think the idea is more along the line of having realistc and totally believable "angsty, butthurt, abusive, murderous, possibly rapist companion who is even worse than the ones we have..."

Because ****ty people exist too.

There are. How many do you know? I don't know a single one and if I did there's no way I'd bring them along with me anywhere let alone romance them and allow them to beat/rape/stalk/me. This is just not a realistic or well thought out scenario in the situation. There are characters like that already in the game such as Vaughn Urien from the city elf origin, that character makes sense in that situation and adds to the story, recruiting him as a companion would make no sense (and why would he even join you?).

I don't have a problem with rape/murder/abuse/etc...portrayed in the game, all those things have been portrayed already. It makes sense for a poor, weak  downtrodden elf to accept abuse because the alternative is death, being arrested, a purge of the alienage. It doesn't make sense for the hero with all the physical/magica/political power and influence to let that stuff continue to happen when they could easily stop it. Shoving as much angst and drama into a character as possible is just tiresome and boring. There's a reason Varric was the most popular character in DA2: he was normal and well adjusted yet interesting. It's a refreshing change from all the Angsty McAngstertons we often get in modern media. Characters who are a pile of cliches and stereotypes are not interesting and most people want to murder-knife them asap.

Anders for one is incredibly annoying, pushy, angsty, murderous, violent, willing to sacrifice innocent people on multiple occasions if it means mages will benefit,etc...and if a nutjob like that=playing it safe, I don't want the kind of companion that's "edgy." This character would probably beat the PC every time they tried to talk shrieking "GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN ****!" (to male and female PCs both) alternating between going into a murderous rampage where they slit the throats of random children and crying like a baby about how their whole family+village were killed and how they have been raped over 1,000 times so that is the only way they know how to "love" and that's why they constantly rape the PC. Also their mother never loved them, they are some kind of outcast and no one understands them, etc...

I do however like the idea of certain characters being harder to form a friendship with. Carver was very difficult to get to max friendship (it actually requires one or both DLCs) but I thought Carver's friendship was very rewarding.

[Am1vf]

More like the lasting threads. This is natural selection: not survival of the better, survival of the one who just happens to survive.

[Bionuts]

If they make one of LI's cheat... better give the option to all Shepard on them with a bit of torture.

[In Exile]

Trista Hawke wrote...
I think, as I've said twice now, if there's a "nightmare" mode for combat, then there should be a "nightmare" mode for at least *one* of the companions. Socializing is as big of a part of DA as combat. 

The problem is that the real solution is murder, and if the game keeps you from doing it (cf. Anders) it just creates a lot of dissatisfaction. And if you're going to create a character everyone is going to want to murder painfully, why have the character be playable/invest a very costly amount of money including? 

[Neon Rising Winter]

 

Am1_vf wrote...

More like the lasting threads. This is natural selection: not survival of the better, survival of the one who just happens to survive.

And then the longer lasting threads breed with each other. I think this one is the offspring of a combat difficulty thread and a character romance thread. It's probably flirting with the voiced protagonist one as we type.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 26 juillet 2013 - 02:53 .

[Am1vf]

Narrow Margin wrote...

And then the longer lasting threads breed with each other. I think this one is the offspring of a combat difficulty thread and a character romance thread. It's probably flirting with the voiced protagonist one as we type.

Really that's brilliant.

[legbamel]

Maker, no! Then we'll have a "Silent Protagonist Who Can't Object to Being Abused, Plz" thread.

[Am1vf]

legbamel wrote...

Maker, no! Then we'll have a "Silent Protagonist Who Can't Object to Being Abused, Plz" thread.

I can alredy see it "Plz byowur dwrven silent systa as LI".

edit: I don't know how much they pay Bioware emplyees, but it surelly can't be enough.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:02 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

Am1_vf wrote...

legbamel wrote...

Maker, no! Then we'll have a "Silent Protagonist Who Can't Object to Being Abused, Plz" thread.

I can alredy see it "Plz byowur dwrven silent systa as LI".

No, no, as player character option, what thread could resist impressive plumage of the 'non human protagonist' threads.

[In Exile]

legbamel wrote...

Maker, no! Then we'll have a "Kossith Silent Protagonist Who Can't Object to Being Abused, Plz" thread.

Fixed. 

From what I've heard, that fits with the content of the Qunari LI thread uncomfortably well. 

Modifié par In Exile, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:05 .

[MWImexico]

Nefla wrote ...
...There's a reason Varric was the most popular character in DA2: he was normal and well adjusted yet interesting. It's a refreshing change from all the Angsty McAngstertons we often get in modern media. Characters who are a pile of cliches and stereotypes are not interesting and most people want to murder-knife them asap.

+1 I always thought so. That said, it would be nice if it was possible to dig further and deepen his psychology. I don't know, at times he  seems a little too linear for my taste, as if nothing could really make him waver. He doesn't react much after the (possible) death of Bartran, I would have liked, for example, that after some time spent pretending that everything is fine, suddenly one day, he shows some crack / some hidden sadness, even if it only lasts a moment before he comes back to his old self.

[legbamel]

In Exile wrote...

legbamel wrote...

Maker, no! Then we'll have a "Kossith Silent Protagonist Who Can't Object to Being Abused, Plz" thread.

Fixed. 

From what I've heard, that fits with the content of the Qunari LI thread uncomfortably well.

I stay out of that thread on principle.  As long as it doesn't turn into "Serebaas, with Mouth Sewn Shut and Leash, for LI" I might not have to leave the BSN for a week. 

[In Exile]

legbamel wrote...
I stay out of that thread on principle.  As long as it doesn't turn into "Serebaas, with Mouth Sewn Shut and Leash, for LI" I might not have to leave the BSN for a week. 

I'm going off the jokes posters make in other threads. I make it a priority to stay away from anything that's ... well... that. 

And hey, whatever Anders and Hawke do behind closed doors is their business. 

[Bionuts]

"A Tranquil Romance"

- by WinterWarlock

[karushna5]

The thing is the murder on this game is not realistic, in fact I don't think I have seen any video game deal with realistic violence, that is the diffrance, as the mureder is somewhat laughable, covered in blood stains with no feeling for those we kill. That is about as cartoonish as it gets, and that is a good thing, as violence in video games is fun and since it isn't realistic, we can downplay it. Realistic abuse on the other hand is a different ball game altogether from that stuff. The relationships are unrealistic, because a real relationship with All its ups and downs and really mediocre bits, would truly be a not fun thing to play. Two different animals, as one is silly and unrealistic so it is fun, a realistic abusive relationship is really messed up and is much bigger.

[DarthLaxian]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Edit for Clarification: I meant "real" as in "severe" vs. something watered down. Like... "How about a REAL drink!" and someone hands you whiskey rather than apple juice. 

Week in and week out, I read a lot of posts regarding companions, friendships, family relations, romances, and so forth.  A great deal of DA fans seem to yearn for normalcy and balance. They want functional romances and functional friendships and functional family ties.

Why? Not criticizing, mind you. I am simply curious. 

I guess, to me, it doesn't sound like a very challenging game if I'm walking into an easy social situation, whether it's with a sibling, friend, or romantic interest. Plus it doesn't feel very believable since even the nicest of relationships have significant downsides (in real life). 

Do any of you want dysfunction? I mean real dysfunction. I'm not talking about a friend, relative, or LI who whines too much and disagrees with your protag's agenda.

Real dysfunction.

Wouldn't it be interesting to have to deal with a sibling, friend, or lover who stalks or harasses your protagonist? Maybe someone who is abusive, whether physically or emotionally, driven by a severe drug/alcohol problem. Someone who lies to you. Cheats you. Cheats on you. Hurts you. I mean really hurts you.

Or does that unnerve you too much?

Does it anger you?  

Are you not up to an interactive challenge like that? 

Does it hit too close to home?

Do you really just want the entire social aspect handed to you on a shiny, silver platter with only minimal discrepancies along the way?

Discuss.

they shall try - i like burning crazed people after all (physical violence against my character by a companion? - he/she will DIE...i will never be pushed/pressured to like/accept violence or abuse of any kind (if it happens the perpetrator will suffer for it - in RL, too...i would never put up with say being beaten by my girlfriend or otherwise abused, i would call in the cops or deal with it myself))

greetings LAX
ps: that's only for real violence/abuse, cheating - well in DA it would probably lead to me leaving the character marooned somewhere if i could or killing him/her...as for stalking? - well, it does not bother me all that much (as long is the character does not show up in my room at night - after all they do not have cameras etc. in DA (that would get me to lash out i think, i don't like to be filmed/photographed etc.))

[CBGB]

Maclimes wrote...

In regards to the OP, I'm certainly fine with that level of intense personal drama. But I don't want it in Dragon Age.

I know people like to say it's "dark" or "mature", whatever that means, but at the end of the day I want an epic tale of heroism, not a staggering tale of personal growth.

Agreed.

[andy6915]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Edit for Clarification: I meant "real" as in "severe" vs. something watered down. Like... "How about a REAL drink!" and someone hands you whiskey rather than apple juice. 

Week in and week out, I read a lot of posts regarding companions, friendships, family relations, romances, and so forth.  A great deal of DA fans seem to yearn for normalcy and balance. They want functional romances and functional friendships and functional family ties.

Why? Not criticizing, mind you. I am simply curious. 

I guess, to me, it doesn't sound like a very challenging game if I'm walking into an easy social situation, whether it's with a sibling, friend, or romantic interest. Plus it doesn't feel very believable since even the nicest of relationships have significant downsides (in real life). 

Do any of you want dysfunction? I mean real dysfunction. I'm not talking about a friend, relative, or LI who whines too much and disagrees with your protag's agenda.

Real dysfunction.

Wouldn't it be interesting to have to deal with a sibling, friend, or lover who stalks or harasses your protagonist? Maybe someone who is abusive, whether physically or emotionally, driven by a severe drug/alcohol problem. Someone who lies to you. Cheats you. Cheats on you. Hurts you. I mean really hurts you.

Or does that unnerve you too much?

Does it anger you?  

Are you not up to an interactive challenge like that? 

Does it hit too close to home?

Do you really just want the entire social aspect handed to you on a shiny, silver platter with only minimal discrepancies along the way?

Discuss.

We already got that from Jacob in Mass Effect 3. Pretty much every person is the world was angry about it.

[septembervirgin]

Trista Hawke wrote...


Wouldn't it be interesting to have to deal with a sibling, friend, or lover who stalks or harasses your protagonist? Maybe someone who is abusive, whether physically or emotionally, driven by a severe drug/alcohol problem. Someone who lies to you. Cheats you. Cheats on you. Hurts you. I mean really hurts you.

Oghren.  That's why they included him in Amaranthine.  Yeesh.  I'd wondered.

[snackrat]

Maybe characters harassing you SEEMS like a good idea, but I never really liked characters they did. My character could have slaughtered an army of spawn and they're still being ****s. They were the kind of people I would murder if they weren't engine-protected, steal all the possessions of (and beat the crap out of) if they were mysteriously immortal, so on. Worst of all are the ones you cannot do ANYTHING ABOUT, that just call out from the sidelines as you walk past. Can't confront them, can't punch them, and often can't even simply avoid them because they're right in high traffic areas you'd be expected to pass thrDO YOU GET TO THE CLOUD DISTRICT VERY OFTEN
OH WHAT AM I SAYING
OF COURSE YOU DON'T

[DooomCookie]

I would like that sort of thing in a companion. I'm all for depth to companions and I think that is one thing DA2 does not get credit for doing really well.

I would not like to see in a family member though. Why? Because in creating a family member, let alone one such as that, they restrict our choices and add backstory, not letting us fill in the gaps. I'm a mad roleplayer and backstory plays a large part of that.