248 réponses à ce sujet

[Neon Rising Winter]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Game of Thrones is an incredibly popular book series (and TV show).

It is not smooth sailing and the sheer level of dysfunction in it runs absolutely rampant.

Oh if you just want Game of Thrones dysfunction, sure why not, that's entertaining, and more what I'd consider appropriate for a video game.

[Ziggeh]

Narrow Margin wrote...

No, real dysfunction makes for bad story I think, at least bad video game story. What grinds you down with a lot of that stuff is how it's amundane and ordinary aspect of your everyday life over months and years. Video games are more an edited highlights kind of medium. Sure you could do that, but it trivialises it into, well, video game dysfunction.

Without conflict you literally cannot have story. It is the thing from which it is made. Like omelettes and eggs. Whether that's distinct from "real dysfunction", I could not say, but I assume from that first paragraph she's posting in response to the "why can't we all just get along?" requests from those who think they would want that, but actually would not want that.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Ziggeh wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

No, real dysfunction makes for bad story I think, at least bad video game story. What grinds you down with a lot of that stuff is how it's amundane and ordinary aspect of your everyday life over months and years. Video games are more an edited highlights kind of medium. Sure you could do that, but it trivialises it into, well, video game dysfunction.

Without conflict you literally cannot have story. It is the thing from which it is made. Like omelettes and eggs. Whether that's distinct from "real dysfunction", I could not say, but I assume from that first paragraph she's posting in response to the "why can't we all just get along?" requests from those who think they would want that, but actually would not want that.

Yes, I hadn't interpreted it as that, but more wanting a reflection of how this kind of thing tends to play out in the real world. In my defense the word 'real' misled me! Then I saw Game of Thrones quoted as an example and realised my mistake.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 22 juillet 2013 - 06:15 .

[Wulfram]

I generally want my party to be people I want to hang out with. It's not really fun otherwise.

[phunx]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Good god no, I have real friends, real family and real life to provide real dysfunction, why on earth would I pay someone for more?

Exactly that. I love alegories and such. But full on real-life applicable family drama (like alcoholism) please no.

[Adela]

idk why ppl keep referring to the game of thrones that book/tv show its its own thing why must BW copy someone else?

[wright1978]

I liked that each of the companions in DA2 had their own issues to overcome over the course of the story & won't be happy with you if you take certain action But no i wouldn't want them to be insane lunatics who'd i'd rather lop their heads off that travel with or fight alongside. Part of the nature of companions is the bond that builds up between the group imo.

[Luxorek]

OP, I recommend the Witcher series to you. It has enough dysfunctional, ammoral and sometimes just plain revolting characters to fill more than three games : ] It's also pretty amazing, so there is that. DA, will most likely never go that way - they want to play it safe and who can blame them ?

[Zombie_Alexis]

As many people have already stated, many of the Dragon Age characters are dysfunctional and I enjoyed their story lines and I wouldn't mind seeing a Templar character having to deal with addiction or some such plot. But a LI who is abusive or a stalker? No thank you! I guarantee you that none of my PCs would put up with it and they'd either get left behind somewhere or murderknifed.

[Am1vf]

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

As many people have already stated, many of the Dragon Age characters are dysfunctional and I enjoyed their story lines and I wouldn't mind seeing a Templar character having to deal with addiction or some such plot. But a LI who is abusive or a stalker? No thank you! I guarantee you that none of my PCs would put up with it and they'd either get left behind somewhere or murderknifed.

Is that a bad thing?

[Cheylus]

It's not "real" dysfunction, it's a video game. If I was terrified by every issue read in books, seen in movies or video games I wouldn't play, read and go to the theater.

Modifié par Cheylus, 22 juillet 2013 - 06:38 .

[Ziggeh]

ag99 wrote...

idk why ppl keep referring to the game of thrones that book/tv show its its own thing why must BW copy someone else?

It's a good example of conflict in character interaction. No ones saying it should have a wisecracking dwarf in in .

Well, ok, but not in that context.

[Zombie_Alexis]

Am1_vf wrote...

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

As many people have already stated, many of the Dragon Age characters are dysfunctional and I enjoyed their story lines and I wouldn't mind seeing a Templar character having to deal with addiction or some such plot. But a LI who is abusive or a stalker? No thank you! I guarantee you that none of my PCs would put up with it and they'd either get left behind somewhere or murderknifed.

Is that a bad thing?

Only that it would make me feel like there were wasted resources on the game. But fair point, my preference is just another opinion.

[Adela]

Cheylus wrote...

It's not "real" dysfunction, it's a video game. If I was terrified by every issue read in books, seen in movies or video games I wouldn't play, read and go to the theater.

it may not  be "real" in-game but some ppl might find it disturbing if they already have that in their  real lives why would they wanna deal with that in a game as well?

[thats1evildude]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Ahhh but the game is all about choices. You don't have to bring the exceptionally dysfunctional ones. But if you don't you might be missing out on a greater challenge. 

If everyone had a list of their emotional problems stamped on their forehead, that might work, but they don't. I don't want to recruit someone only to discover later that he's unusable.

I'm OK with playing warrior therapist to the extent that helping my companions work through some issues will make them more effective in battle. But I'm not interested in a project. I'm not recruiting someone for the sole purpose of fixing them.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 22 juillet 2013 - 06:51 .

[Nefla]

This kind of overly dramatic, overly dark angsty stuff interested me as a teenager as I think it does with most teens, but I left that behind long ago. I would rather have normal comanions with a normal range of ups and downs and a few defining and or dramatic moments here or there but nothing like what the op describes.

[nightscrawl]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Week in and week out, I read a lot of posts regarding companions, friendships, family relations, romances, and so forth.  A great deal of DA fans seem to yearn for normalcy and balance. They want functional romances and functional friendships and functional family ties.

Why? Not criticizing, mind you. I am simply curious. 

I guess, to me, it doesn't sound like a very challenging game if I'm walking into an easy social situation, whether it's with a sibling, friend, or romantic interest. Plus it doesn't feel very believable since even the nicest of relationships have significant downsides (in real life). 

Do any of you want dysfunction? I mean real dysfunction. I'm not talking about a friend, relative, or LI who whines too much and disagrees with your protag's agenda.

Real dysfunction.

Wouldn't it be interesting to have to deal with a sibling, friend, or lover who stalks or harasses your protagonist? Maybe someone who is abusive, whether physically or emotionally, driven by a severe drug/alcohol problem. Someone who lies to you. Cheats you. Cheats on you. Hurts you. I mean really hurts you.

While yes, having a follower or LI who is more emotionally stable does seem nice, in the end I don't think I would find it very interesting. This is fantasy play time. I can exercise my own morality in these games, and I can deal with people's emotional problems in a way that I either might not be able to, or have no desire to, in real life.

I liked the level of dysfunction that the companions had in DA2. I also liked that Hawke could, depending on choices, help them work through some of it.

As far as your second point, I don't think dysfunction means that the person has to act out against the PC as you describe, but it certainly can be one avenue of expressing dysfunction. I wouldn't mind a follower like that, but it would have to be done very carefully, and be written, and acted, very well.

thats1evildude wrote...

If everyone had a list of their emotional problems stamped on their forehead, that might work, but they don't. I don't want to recruit someone only to discover later that he's unusable.

I'm OK with playing warrior therapist to the extent that helping my companions work through some issues will make them more effective in battle. But I'm not interested in a project. I'm not recruiting someone for the sole purpose of fixing them.

I think the goal for the writer would be that you come to like, or care about, the follower well enough that you want to help them.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 22 juillet 2013 - 06:57 .

[Tootles FTW]

I like dysfunction. Carver was vastly preferable to Bethany (for me) in DA2, because Carver obviously had issues with me and I was constantly trying to ingratiate myself to him only to get a persistent Rivalry score. Getting so frustrated over a fictional character's affection that I'm screaming "Carver, why won't you let me love you!?!??!" at the screen was part of my immersion and entertainment.

Also, none of my boyfriends IRL were bastard princes with inferiority complexes, or amnesiac slaves with trust issues. I dig it in my fiction.

[AtreiyaN7]

Not really - I experienced enough actual verbal/psychological abuse from my actual mom in real life when she was still alive. Therefore, I don't particularly want someone like that in my game in any capacity whatsoever. Yes, the real-life emotional scarring was a wonderful, wonderful experience and makes for a totally GREAT story. I'm sure that I can now write a terribly entertaining memoir leading up to my becoming a semi-hermetical, highly irritable, and occasionally angry (when I deal with a crappy manuscript...which happens kind of a lot) book designer. *rolleyes*

Also, if a companion were physically abusive towards my character or towards anyone else, my reaction would likely consist of immediately launching a fireball at their face. I have this zero tolerance policy towards people who physically abuse others (and I'm not keen on the verbal/psychological abuse either).

I can live with working with unpleasant people like assassins so long as they're professionals and don't kill people for fun or for sadistic pleasure, but I have my limits. My opinion is that while I don't mind helping someone who has some kind of personal issue, I don't particularly want someone who's either physically of psychologically abusive weighing me down. I think I'm going to be busy enough trying to save the world. And assuming that the abusive twit survives the fireball to the face, I'd probably put manacles on them and hand them over to the nearest gendarme.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 22 juillet 2013 - 06:56 .

[nightscrawl]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Also, none of my boyfriends IRL were bastard princes with inferiority complexes, or amnesiac slaves with trust issues. I dig it in my fiction.

Yepper, same here.

[Ziggeh]

Tootles FTW wrote...

I like dysfunction. Carver was vastly preferable to Bethany (for me) in DA2, because Carver obviously had issues with me and I was constantly trying to ingratiate myself to him only to get a persistent Rivalry score. Getting so frustrated over a fictional character's affection that I'm screaming "Carver, why won't you let me love you!?!??!" at the screen was part of my immersion and entertainment.

I think that's exactly it, and exactly what we're talking about. I hated Carver the first time around, as I always hate the ones who won't bend to my will. But in subsequent playthroughs it always becomes clear they're the most interesting. I may not love them, but they're the ones I want to spend more time with.

I don't want everyone to get along for the same reasons I don't want Thedas to be a cool, relaxed place where there are never any problems.

[Am1vf]

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

As many people have already stated, many of the Dragon Age characters are dysfunctional and I enjoyed their story lines and I wouldn't mind seeing a Templar character having to deal with addiction or some such plot. But a LI who is abusive or a stalker? No thank you! I guarantee you that none of my PCs would put up with it and they'd either get left behind somewhere or murderknifed.

Is that a bad thing?

Only that it would make me feel like there were wasted resources on the game. But fair point, my preference is just another opinion.

I meant that abandonning or killing a companion can be part of the roleplaying, one of my wardens wanted to kill Morrigan or bring her to the templars and I was disappointed that choice it wasn't in the game.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Tootles FTW wrote...

I like dysfunction. Carver was vastly preferable to Bethany (for me) in DA2, because Carver obviously had issues with me and I was constantly trying to ingratiate myself to him only to get a persistent Rivalry score. Getting so frustrated over a fictional character's affection that I'm screaming "Carver, why won't you let me love you!?!??!" at the screen was part of my immersion and entertainment.

Also, none of my boyfriends IRL were bastard princes with inferiority complexes, or amnesiac slaves with trust issues. I dig it in my fiction.

Interesting, I'd peg Bethany as the more dysfunctional one initially. Carver is angry, knows what he is angry about and is expressing it quite clearly. He might not have found a way out of his sibling's shadow, but he knows it's a problem. Bethany is the one rolling along trapped in the good daughter/sister role, obviously unhappy with the restrictions on her life, but worrying too much about everyone else to do anything about it. I suppose that's a not horrible example of quiet, mundane dysfunction.

[Tootles FTW]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

I like dysfunction. Carver was vastly preferable to Bethany (for me) in DA2, because Carver obviously had issues with me and I was constantly trying to ingratiate myself to him only to get a persistent Rivalry score. Getting so frustrated over a fictional character's affection that I'm screaming "Carver, why won't you let me love you!?!??!" at the screen was part of my immersion and entertainment.

Also, none of my boyfriends IRL were bastard princes with inferiority complexes, or amnesiac slaves with trust issues. I dig it in my fiction.

Interesting, I'd peg Bethany as the more dysfunctional one initially. Carver is angry, knows what he is angry about and is expressing it quite clearly. He might not have found a way out of his sibling's shadow, but he knows it's a problem. Bethany is the one rolling along trapped in the good daughter/sister role, obviously unhappy with the restrictions on her life, but worrying too much about everyone else to do anything about it. I suppose that's a not horrible example of quiet, mundane dysfunction.

I put Bethany's dysfunction as an internal, self-involving one.  Carver's dysfunction was proactive and affected his relationships with others.  Bethany's only affected how she saw herself.  Both are relevant, but Carver's - being what it was - was actively discussed within the game as a topic of conversation & thus became a plot-line I/Hawke could involve myself and felt like I could "change" IF ONLY HE'D LET ME.   /shakes impotent fist

Or maybe it's just that I never had a brother IRL?  I don't know.  I just loved the challenge. 

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 22 juillet 2013 - 07:07 .