248 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoBlonde]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Good god no, I have real friends, real family and real life to provide real dysfunction, why on earth would I pay someone for more?

Not to mention that I don't even put up with that crap in real life, so why would my game character who murders the population of entire cities put up with it?  I don't mind if people have dysfunctional relationships with each other--but every game has examples of those.  Someone pulls that crap on my protagonist they're getting a fireball to the face.

Basically, writing something like this would be an example of bad GM fiat because they'd have to force the protagonist to act like a cretin in order to pull it off and this almost always backfires into forcefully disconnecting people from their protagonist.

[legbamel]

I don't really see that we "fixed" a goodly number of our companions in the past. Morrigan, Sten, and Leliana certainly continued on along their own paths regardless of their relationship with the Warden. Anders still slid into madness and did his thing, Merrill still dealt with demons, Fenris still had a burning hatred of mages (though he was about the closest thing to fixed you got in DA2 outside of Warden Carver), and Isabela was still Isabela unless you romanced her.

Besides all of that, my PCs have much better things to do than accrue personal baggage from abusive or toxic relationships. Isn't enough that she has to save the world--does she have to save everyone in it individually, too?

BioWare has much better things to do with their resources than spend months trying to write a sufficiently dysfunctional yet not offensive or wasteful story line. I'd rather they focused on NPCs most people are unlikely to kill or skip on every subsequent playthrough.

[Magdalena11]

I wonder how many good ideas were killed at the conference table......

[legbamel]

Yeah, excellent refutation of my points. I want a strong game with replay value and one that sells well so that they'll keep making games in this universe. I'm sorry you're too edgy for me and all, but I still disagree with you.

[Adela]

if this were to be implemented, i think Cole would be the "perfect" candidate for this type of role IMO if he were to be a companion of some sort

[ilikesocks]

I truly hope Cole isn't a companion.

[MWImexico]

Trista Hawke wrote...
... I want to feel the sublime - the very cold depths of player immersion when one of my companions actually *does* make me question absolutely everything throughout gameplay. I want some kind of sh*t that would keep me up at night, just fixating on it. No joke. 

Mmm in this context, I don't understand, what do you mean? can you be more precise? You think a more dysfunctional/toxic character fits more to achieve this goal?

[Adela]

Trista Hawke wrote...

ilikesocks wrote...

I truly hope Cole isn't a companion.

 

Who is Cole? I know he's in a DA comic. (Yes?) What's Cole's character like?

 in a nutshell this (spoilers)

[MWImexico]

krul2k wrote...

she wants a character thats going to make her question every decision she makes and continue to make her question said decisions when she logs of to such a point that she shouts "ARGHHHHHHH" throws the quilt of an turns the computer back on

Yet I think there is no need for the character to be dysfunctional or toxic to achieve that goal. Plus I tend to not believe cheaters and liars (at least the spotted ones), so it would be difficult for this sort of character to make me waver on my choices.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Edit for Clarification: I meant "real" as in "severe" vs. something watered down. Like... "How about a REAL drink!" and someone hands you whiskey rather than apple juice. 

Week in and week out, I read a lot of posts regarding companions, friendships, family relations, romances, and so forth.  A great deal of DA fans seem to yearn for normalcy and balance. They want functional romances and functional friendships and functional family ties.

Why? Not criticizing, mind you. I am simply curious.

Be...cause...we haven't had a normal, balanced relationship/friendship with a companion yet? Every single companion has come from a broken home and/or a tragic past. Every single PC has has roots in a broken/non-existant home or unfortunate backstory.

I want to see something normal and balanced a) because Bioware hasn't done it yet, because tragic has evidently gotten so old that players seem to want to spice it up with full-blown dysfunctional now.  

I guess, to me, it doesn't sound like a very challenging game if I'm walking into an easy social situation, whether it's with a sibling, friend, or romantic interest. Plus it doesn't feel very believable since even the nicest of relationships have significant downsides (in real life).

Downsides are part of a normal, balanced relationship. They don't have to involve eg. possession, slavery, blood rituals, or being the secret bastard son of a prince. 

Do any of you want dysfunction? I mean real dysfunction. I'm not talking about a friend, relative, or LI who whines too much and disagrees with your protag's agenda.

Real dysfunction.

You mean Anders?

Seriously though, I'd be concerned that real dysfunction would be cheapened in a computer game. Players expect to be able to 'fix' their companions or to somehow make everything better by the end of the story. Dysfunction and dealing with it is often a story unto itself. Sure you get miniquests that touch on issues like schizophrenia, as in DA2, but for a companion? Multiple companions?

No thanks. Doesn't sound like my kind of party.

[Am1vf]

All this talk about, a game can't do this, it would be cheapened because it's a game, gamers wouldn't accept it because of expectaitions, etc. is making me think that this really should be done in some game.

[Jonathan Seagull]

To be honest, Trista, I really don't like the way you've constructed your pitch. "Are you up to the challenge of dealing with domestic abuse? Or do you just want sunshine and rainbows?"

It seems like a situation like that would be dealt with one of two ways. 1) The PC can immediately put a stop to it, for example by killing the companion or sending him (or her) packing. In terms of telling a story, to me that would be a bit abrupt and awkward. Or; 2) The player can choose to have their PC endure this abuse, at least for a certain time. This...is just disconcerting to me, and I don't care to delve into it much beyond that.

Now, to be clear, I fully support having companions that don't blindly worship at the PC alter. I love having characters that are willing to challenge my beliefs and actions, and even stand up to me. I'm also not inherently against having a companion that "does something bad" to my PC at some point, i.e. a betrayal of some kind. Provided it's written well and believably. NWN2, for example, is a great example of handling this poorly. It was so obvious to me that Bishop was going to betray me that I was just frustrated I had to keep him around. And when either Qara or Sand join the King of Shadows, the betrayal (especially from Sand) is so poorly reasoned that it just does not work. But I don't have anything against the idea if it makes sense. Zevran in DAO is a fairly good example, although even that isn't perfect.

At the end of the day, I feel like what we've seen so far in DA is pretty reasonable. The PC is never really able to "save" Anders, and plenty of the other characters have issues (including ones that occasionally cause them to lash out at the PC, like Fenris) that can be dealt with to varying degrees. But the idea of pushing this into outright abuse, or anything of the like, is not something that I personally am at all interested in exploring.

Modifié par Jonathan Seagull, 23 juillet 2013 - 04:25 .

[PlasmaCheese]

I accidentally deleted what I said. ._.
Does this count as companion abuse?

Modifié par PlasmaCheese, 23 juillet 2013 - 04:59 .

[Thomas Andresen]

When I read "dysfunction", I thought "psychological disorders". I think Anders quite readily qualifies as schizophrenic.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
I do want meaningful conflicts in romances, but I don't want to deal with petty personal issues. Yes, within the context of an epic story, things like cheating, stalking or alcohol abuse are petty, unless the writers can make them meaningful to the story in some way. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a soap opera.

As for the meaningful stuff; we already have that: Morrigan goes away to follow her own plans and doesn't want you to come along. Anders deceives you for his plans. Isabela leaves with the relic, and you don't know at the time when she does if there will ever be a reckoning. Yes, all these things happen regardless of a romance, but if you romanced those characters, the events acquire an added dimension, exactly the kind of romance-related conflict tied to the story I like.

So, yes, I want more of those things we've been getting. The things you've mentioned as examples in your OP, though, no, I don't want those.

Edit:
As for making me feel things, Morrigan's romance actually made me feel things I never felt before, in RL or not. When I noticed she'd go to follow her own plans, regardless of romance, I couldn't but admire her for it even though it did hurt. On the other hand, if she hadn't I would've admired her less. So, my Warden was attracted to her more because of what she did, and even if that meant it had to end, it was a "good" end and it left some hope for the future. I loved Morrigan's romance and the conflicted emotions it invoked in me. That was long before "Witch Hunt" was out, btw..

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juillet 2013 - 08:37 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

During my first playthrough of Dragon Age 2, one of my friends left me to die in a Qunari attack she was responsible for and then another of my friends tore my home apart with a terrorist attack after all my efforts to stabilize it. I actually had two separate friendships end with violence for my first Hawke.

I thought that captured betrayal and dysfunction in the companions quite well. It also made the Last Straw Quest feel more poignant with my team at less than full strength in Hawke's "darkest hour." I'm not sure the third game needs any more levels of dysfuctional surrogate family members.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 juillet 2013 - 08:44 .

[Maria Caliban]

Ziggeh wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

Good god no, I have real friends, real family and real life to provide real dysfunction, why on earth would I pay someone for more?

Because that's what we call "story"?

The fantasy genre is full of hyper-functional people overcoming near-impossible odds.


Actual dysfunction is rare.