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[Roujinx94]

ag99 wrote...

Roujinx94 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

I hope it isn't done.
Would be annoying as well as a distraction.

A distraction... from what? The rest of the plot and the characters that are about as valid as the dysfunctional one?

You might as well say being able to talk to your companions is a distraction, no need for that, let's just focus 100% on the inquisition, shall we?

Besides, if they did something like that you'd probably have plenty of opportunities to kill said character, at the very least one when you meet them and one when they first start showing signs that they're trouble, so they wouldn't bother people who don't want to be bothered.

But then what would be the point in making such a character if everyone is gonna murderknife him/her because of how he/she is?

The simple existence of the OP answers that question, no? Some people actually want that companion, I myself might be inclined to keep him/her around. Isn't it basically the same thing as Zevran? I like to assume that most people killed him in their first playthrough because that's the reasonable thing to do but you can still keep him around and he can still betray you later on under the right conditions, still, he's a character like any other with a personality and a background that you can keep around in the next playthroughs to get the full experience.

Personally, I really hated Leliana and Wynne but I was still disappointed I had to kill them after defiling the ashes since it meant I wouldn't get to experience everything about their characters. Not everyone dislikes the same things and even then that might not be reason enough for some of us to kill another.

[Plaintiff]

The spy/traitor idea is neat, but I think rather than have it be a fixed character, the identity of the traitor should change based on hidden variables.

And maybe it could be possible to avoid the betrayal altogether, or talk the spy back around to your side.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 24 juillet 2013 - 04:04 .

[Magdalena11]

Actually, the thought of having to fight for my sweetie is enough to make me giggle. The thought of him fighting off relentless swains on my behalf is enough to make me laugh out loud.If we're allowed to keep our real life stats I'm all for this kind of roleplay.

[Roujinx94]

Whoops, nevermind. The forum told me my other post didn't register so I wrote another one. Ignore this.

Modifié par Roujinx94, 24 juillet 2013 - 04:13 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Alright, look. You don't know me. Do not say I've never had this or that personal experience in my life, because you're very, very wrong. Just because I'm capable of separating my personal baggage from a video game does not mean I've gone my entire life without experiencing abuse. 

A video game emulating volatile relationships doesn't disturb me.

Hearing others pass judgment on MY personal life that they know *nothing* about all because I made a suggestion about a DRAGON AGE game, *does* disturb me.

You, and everyone else, do not know me. You do not know what I've been through.

How dare you use this one internet thread as a springboard to judge MY personal experiences? 

There is nothing "obvious" at all because YOU. DON'T. KNOW. ME.

Disgusting.

Overreact much? What I said is that you seemed oblivious about the subject matter, and I specifically cited why earlier. Your proposed handling an abusive situation is neither smart or realistic - and my assessment was based on my personal experience with a verbally and psychologically abusive parent (per my very first, if somewhat snarky, post in this thread).

I don't know you and wasn't making judgments about your life in particular, and for the record, I really don't give a flying fig about what happened or didn't happen in your life. I'm just judging your proposal based on what I went through. You're the one who chose to bring up a serious topic and should have expected that it might trigger negative or critical responses. Not everyone's going to pat you on the back and call something like this a great idea. Should I be apologizing because you can't handle your scenario being judged as ill-conceived?

I'm not particularly emo about the subject of abuse and don't have a problem if some smart and intelligently-written sidequest were to tackle the issue. It's just that your idea that the protagonist should be the victim of this kind of crap fails on several levels for me. Also, I actually agreed repeatedly with the idea that a manipulative and clever companion with their own agenda might be interesting. It's just that the abusive companion idea sucks.

EDIT: And all of a sudden I saw the Breaking Bad example. If you'd proposed something like Walter White and Jesse Pinkman from the start, that probably would have put things in a much different light. Maybe you should have specifically cited something like that a lot sooner. The physically abusive LI angle still doesn't work at all, but I can certainly see an initially "good" character like Walter White spiraling out of control. But good luck working something that nuanced into DA:I - if you had the equivalent of five-six seasons and all the Breaking Bad writers, then maybe it could succeed.

P.S. I actually did cite Jaime and Tyrion in a much earlier post as examples of the kind of "dysfunctional" character who might be intriguing to see in a game.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 24 juillet 2013 - 07:51 .

[JCAP]

Roujinx94 wrote...

JCAP wrote...

(pic)

This bastard. This goddamned bastard. Screw you and your bloody son, I enjoyed killing him and I enjoyed watching you die (well, it happened offscreen but you get the idea).

Ahem. Still, any character who can invoke that type of emotion is a welcome addition to any game as far as I'm concerned. Sure, it can be a pain at times but when you take your time to look back on it characters you feel strongly about are one of the best things in any game, doesn't matter if you love them or hate them, either's fine, but that's just my opinion.

I like Kenny, he is like a bro, but what I really didn't like about him was that particular feature. I thought he would only refuse to help you if you didn't help him killing you know who, but no, if you want him your best friend forever, you have to side with him always.



Spoiler alert episode 2:

I understand his motives to kill Lilly father, but I really don't like his attitude when you decide to give the old man a chance before deciding if he was really dead. He was alive! (if you are fast enough, before Kenny drops that brick, Larry moves his mouth)

Modifié par JCAP, 24 juillet 2013 - 09:53 .

[legbamel]

For me the reason a dysfunctional relatuonship between the PC and a companion wouldn'tmake sense is the user/doormat aspect of such a relationship, whether enabler and addict (which might work if it developed over the course of the game and was story-based rather than forced) or victim and abuser. I just don't see the sensw of our playing the hero only to let one person wipe their virtual feet on us.

Does it happen in real life? Sure. I just think there are better dramatic tools out there that don't require the PC to either roll over or kill/dismiss a companion. Betrayal and complications would work better and having hidden flags that change those relationships would only add to replay value.

[Nefla]

I'm fine with the idea if betrayal if its well written and has actual consequences, but a companion who abuses/stalks the PC well that's just stupid on many levels. Firstly, the PC is a strong, heroic military leader. How would someone be able to abuse them without the PC directly agreeing to it? (And why the hell would they?) If the hero's LI slaps them around once, the hero would flight back and probably come out on top since the PC is usually the strongest character in the game, then they would end the relationship and likely tell the companion to hit the road. This kind of angsty teen drama is the stuff awful fanfic a are made of and I don't want it in the actual game. " omg liek wouldent it be soooo romantic if Fenris rapes a mage Hawke cuz he hates mages!!!1!!one1!" Yeah no thanks, I'll skip Twilight: The Game.

[Adela]

@Trista

Just as AtreiyaN7 said for a topic like this you should have expected that it might trigger negative or critical responses. If not me then someone else would have done it

Modifié par ag99, 24 juillet 2013 - 03:37 .

[Dabrikishaw]

No.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Sure, why not? I think one of the reasons I really liked DA2's companions was because it was a merry band of misfits. Everybody was dysfunctional, although maybe not to the degree the OP desires. One of the things I really liked about DA2 over DA:O was that my companions seemed to have their own minds. They had deeply held beliefs and no manner of persuasion would change those beliefs. I liked that. It made them feel like real people.

As far as tackling harder subjects like in the OP, I'm down for it. I'd rather have companions be dysfunctional and memorable rather than functioning and forgettable.

[Bionuts]

Would be interesting to find out your LI is a child molester, sadist (torturer, as well), or cheater. With the option to chop their arms, legs, head (both) off.

Tis' a reasonable request.

[Medhia Nox]

@Trista Hawke: The question is "why"?

If your answer is: "To explore deep emotional connections."

And I ignore my belief that video games are incapable of this right now.

Then I would respond: Unless the connection is somehow forced BEYOND the limitations of the game, the offending NPC would simply be sidelined. You cannot force a character to be in party - or be conversed with.

And, if none of that is necessary, I think a vast majority of players would simply decide to sideline that character making it a waste of development resources.

So - what are your ideas story-wise to encourage a player to want to entertain a dysfunctional relationship?

We have to remember that "love" isn't good enough for a video game. A player will never love a character enough to be abused. Even people that experience the genuine expression of this idea in real life often "disconnect" at a certain point to save what's left of themselves.

The game would have to construct reasons beyond those provided in nearly any cRPG I've never played to keep such a relationship going.

I'd even say that "some" of the dysfunctional relationships you mentioned are "doomed". I could elaborate but for spoilers.

Note: If you've already stated your thoughts beyond the OP... please re-post? Most of this thread is a frothing rage beast and I don't feel like scouring it for anything you've said.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 24 juillet 2013 - 11:52 .

[CronoDragoon]

Medhia brings up a good point, though. Players' BS toleration level goes waaaay down when they pick up a controller. There's simply not enough time in a game to first establish the relationship enough such that the player feels invested enough to deal with abuse.

[brushyourteeth]

This topic is so edgy I can't even deal right now.

[Nightdragon8]

.... touchy topic atm....

abuse should really only be seen from the MC prospective. IE, Mage/Elf/Slave abuse. and mabe should allow us to stop/ignore or at least bring the attention to any officials of the area. As for relationship kind of abuse. I think the only real acceptable levels are, Fenris/Anders or Isabella/Avaleine levels. any more and it could end up being extremely offensive.

[karushna5]

I feel an abusive relationship would be morally wrong to put in a video game. Fact is as we see more and more, there is a lot of verbal abuse on women in video culture already. Honestly there comes a point where simulating real honest realistic(which cuts out the random murder) bad evil horrible things is just wrong. Having the player reenact them will either truly upset them or worse become a thing. Fact is none of the violence in these games is very realistic, but the fact of having something so scarring be enacted by the player or to the player is disturbing on many levels. The relationships in DAII were dysfunctional, normal if not a little creepy dysfunctional, the fact you sleep with Fenris and then he leaves in a huff and then won't talk about it for years, or Merrill going towards her own doom regardless, and even Anders and his very multiple personality disorder and being an extremist. They were TOO dysfunctional for me. But if you add abusive relationships the question is why? to up the emotional ante, I think that can be done many ways other than putting the players through that.

fact is I would stop playing video games if that suddenly showed up in a favorite game. I would consider the media ruined, sell my XBox, Wii, Playstation, GameCube and everything else. There comes a point where enough is enough, and either tell a fantasy game or tell a drama about abuse, but don't put it into everything for edginess

[Am1vf]

If abusive behaviour agains women is a problem let's not focus it in gender, or do the "positive discrimination" thing and have Cassandra abuse a male PC, that is how most media do it anyway.

[Ryzaki]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

A spy/traitor LI would be awesome though. They sell your PC out and nothing you can do will change that.

Course I'd just avoid them my second playthrough. o/

I would prefer do i can do something to change that as pr*** kill him as good guy influence on him otherwise gaining his approval would be pointless something like zevran who always would betray you no matter what you do even morrigan (possible if she not lying) starts care about PC. 

True but the no matter what you do you cna't change him traitor hits all my drama buttons. Plus Zevran doesn't always betray the PC. Get his approval past...33? I think. And he won't turn on you. And Morrigan doesn't always care about the PC. She and my male mage can't stand each other.

I know probably i wrote this in chaotic way so my fault:) , i mean that gaining character trust isn't player affection to character only character affection to PC and like Zevran who betrays us only when he have small approval it would sucks if he always betrayed me no matter what.About morrigan i mean that if we gain enough approval then she starts care about pc because we gain her trust and friendship what pushes her a little toward better person than she was at the beginning.That same for isabela if she likes us or she likes us little less but respects us and we push her into being better person (by rivalry) she returns.

I kind of want the betray no matter what but maybe based off approval he/she won't be as gleeful/business like about it? Sort of like Morrigan with the DR.

On walking dead note f*** Kenny. Like seriously I wanted to punch him in the face most of the time. "OMG you didn't agree with me one time? HOW DARE YOU YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME DESPITE SAVING MY ASS SEVERAL TIMES."

Dickwad.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:13 .