248 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Trista Hawke wrote...

The relationships in DA2 are already borderline abusive, so I'm unclear as to why everyone thinks this would be a completely new, immoral thing. I'm just saying to kick the crazy up a few notches for a single companion. Make them very real. Very flawed. Very difficult to socialize with.

Also let's not preach morality in games where you can stab/decapitate/poison/explode other people.

Emotionally yeah phsyically? lol no. And even then most of the emotional abuse is coming from Hawke.

[brushyourteeth]

Filament wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Like I've said in countless other threads: why not? It's a medium which has matured itself, I don't see the problem here.

Because some of the proposed mechanics here are anything but "mature." Being rewarded for staying in an abusive relationship and penalized for ending it, has to be one of the most sick-minded suggestions I've ever seen on the BSN. Maybe the practical application of it wouldn't be as offensive in the proportion that I am imagining, but without an example as such, it sounds really, really bad.

OP draping their request in "maturity" is a bit disingenuous because no one is protesting the idea of these things existing in the world. The problem is forcing them onto the player character by either taking away player agency or creating these artificial incentives/disincentives, because then feels less like portrayal and more like promotion.

So much this.

[Milan92]

Filament wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Like I've said in countless other threads: why not? It's a medium which has matured itself, I don't see the problem here.

Because some of the proposed mechanics here are anything but "mature." Being rewarded for staying in an abusive relationship and penalized for ending it, has to be one of the most sick-minded suggestions I've ever seen on the BSN. Maybe the practical application of it wouldn't be as offensive in the proportion that I am imagining, but without an example as such, it sounds really, really bad.

OP draping their request in "maturity" is a bit disingenuous because no one is protesting the idea of these things existing in the world. The problem is forcing them onto the player character by either taking away player agency or creating these artificial incentives/disincentives, because then feels less like portrayal and more like promotion.

[Medhia Nox]

@Tristan: so you didn't want conversation. My bad. I'm mildly glad you won't get what you want.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 juillet 2013 - 08:10 .

[Adela]

the reason i got personal is because u consider domestic abuse , or any kind of abuse towards a helpless victim "fun". Ofc im gonna get aggressive to a person who thinks that.
What exactly did u expected me to say?

"oh sure I always wanted to be a punching bag its sooo much fun to be beaten up for no apparent reason"

[Angrywolves]

Luv the fighting. rotfl.
What do the people who want this really want ?
Psychopaths, sociopaths, schizoid personalities, deviates.
Sounds like the BSN.
rotfl.
Seriously, what do they want ?

[Bionuts]

What if the PC gets raped? And we have to put her back together throughout the remainder of the game?

^ Tis' how many people (not I) read your post.

[Ryzaki]

Nah.

ADWR managed to force the PC into working with her rapist just fine. It can be done. (Now the way the "romance" was donew ith said rapist is a completely different matter *gags*) 

The issue becomes the rapist being more powerful than the PC and how long he/she remains so. (And as well as the circumstances of the rape and I would suppose the frequency of it. Lot easier to deal with a one time before the two were working together)

But there needs to be a lot of variation in choice in responses there. You can't just have BW's "well I kind of don't like you/oh I like you!" that you have with most side characters save 1 or 2 choices where you finally don't have to act like bestest buddies (with voiced protagonists I mean).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 juillet 2013 - 11:43 .

[Angrywolves]

There won't be any rape scenes.
You've heard about the female writers getting a scene changed that resembled a rape.
The male writers didn't see it initially but thought better of it and agreed to change it.
So Gaider would never allow anything resembling a rape.
As for betray, Andraste was betrayed. Saw it in DAL's gauntlet.
Don't want my Inquisitor betrayed period.
Don't know whether Gaider would risk a dubious script/plot blurb after DA2's plot issues. shrugs.

[Angrywolves]

Yes there's the scenes in the city elf origin. Rape is implied, you believe it happened, but you don't actually see it.

[Urazz]

thats1evildude wrote...

Why would you bring complete nutters on a quest to save the world?

Our companions in both games are at about the right level of dysfunction. Crazy enough to be interesting, but not so broken as to be useless.

Yes, it's only the screwed up people that are partly insane that would take part in a quest to save the world.  Why do you think we never see anyone that is normal trying to save the world in these stories?

[brushyourteeth]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Luv the fighting. rotfl.
What do the people who want this really want ?
Psychopaths, sociopaths, schizoid personalities, deviates.
Sounds like the BSN.
rotfl.
Seriously, what do they want ?

 

I'm obviously being misinterpreted. I threw emotional/physical abuse out there as a random example. I had other examples to describe a dysfunctional companion. When I said abuse, I was thinking of an overbearing "mommy dearest" type of relative. For a dysfunctional friendship, I was thinking more along the lines of lying/cheating/betrayal. That could also apply to an LI. And I wondered what it'd be like if a companion stalked you/was obsessed with you in the beginning vs. being completely put off by you and you have to give him/her gifts to sway their approval. (Yawn.)

The thing is, I found the relationships advertised as dysfunctional in the other two games as being incredibly watered down. It's like watering down combat - those relationships were all too easy, especially because of gifts. 

I think, as I've said twice now, if there's a "nightmare" mode for combat, then there should be a "nightmare" mode for at least *one* of the companions. Socializing is as big of a part of DA as combat. 

Ag99 decided to take my post to a personal level and accuse me of being ignorant, as well as gluttonous for pain/punishment. 

It's a video game. I do not live vicariously through video games. Me wanting at least one incredibly tough-to-like/love companion is not a basis for personal attacks. You know what I mean? If we're judging people's personal lives based on video game playing preferences, then more than half of you would be assumed to be in love with the idea of murder. (<-- For Ag99 - that last sentence was sarcasm.)

Anders was an emotionally abusive weight on my back who I killed at the end of the only time I romanced him (on my first playthrough) and barely spoke to on my subsequent playthroughs for that reason.

So... you can see where a topic like this would be a big eyeroller for me, since having to stab a guy seemed edgy enough, and having him in the party was (in my case) a waste of space in my game (because I felt no connection and had some Twilight-y problems with his behavior, and even Fenris').

So asking Bioware to consider my taking on and intentionally continuing to engage in dialogue with someone who does harm to my future no-nonsense game-self flies in the face of what I love about Bioware -- they let you play your way. I'm always up for the chance to use the murder knife, but less enthused about doing that in  my party. I'm much more interested in experiencing a viewpoint different from my own through the eyes of a friend. I'm hoping for more harmony, not less.

I'd never ask that we not have controversial or feels-inducing characters or situations, but holding up the sign of "more controversy, more pain, more edge, more dysfunction" sounds hollow. I'm really pleased (and I realize I'm just one individual) with the level of drama that the writers have given us so far because they wanted to and don't see the reason to pull the ol' "Dance, monkey, dance!" on them in this regard.

It reads as a complaint on your part that "what Bioware does isn't extreme enough for me. If I were one of their writers, I wouldn't be afraid (implying that they are) to add in extra pain because PAIN and I am so hardcore." I'm pretty sure that's at least part of what people are responding to negatively, whether that's fair or not.

Case in point:

The thing is, I found the relationships advertised as dysfunctional in the other two games as being incredibly watered down.

and

Yawn

There's... the appearance of superiority there and a lack of empathy that some of these situations may be painful triggers for others that may have some folks' hackles raised.

I do agree with you that being able to resolve relational conflict with a gift or the "right" choice felt lame. I can't pretend to know how to fix that, but adding more relational conflict that we don't how to fix doesn't seem like the way to go.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 26 juillet 2013 - 12:21 .

[brushyourteeth]

Angrywolves wrote...

There won't be any rape scenes.
You've heard about the female writers getting a scene changed that resembled a rape.
The male writers didn't see it initially but thought better of it and agreed to change it.
So Gaider would never allow anything resembling a rape.
As for betray, Andraste was betrayed. Saw it in DAL's gauntlet.
Don't want my Inquisitor betrayed period.
Don't know whether Gaider would risk a dubious script/plot blurb after DA2's plot issues. shrugs.

I think the problem with that rape scenario was that it wasn't intended to be rapey. That one of the "good guys" came across as rapey and it wasn't their intention to make rape seem okay.

[Am1vf]

Angrywolves wrote...

There won't be any rape scenes.
You've heard about the female writers getting a scene changed that resembled a rape.
The male writers didn't see it initially but thought better of it and agreed to change it.
So Gaider would never allow anything resembling a rape.
As for betray, Andraste was betrayed. Saw it in DAL's gauntlet.
Don't want my Inquisitor betrayed period.
Don't know whether Gaider would risk a dubious script/plot blurb after DA2's plot issues. shrugs.

And Gaider said they changed it so it would be awkward and disgusting to everybody. So maybe it's still in, whatever it was, but more obvious.

[Nefla]

So you want one over the top, unbelievable, angsty, butthurt, abusive, murderous, possibly rapist companion who is even worse than the ones we have...what would that add? A character like that should be locked up and there is no believable reason to have them accompany you. That's called bad writing, go read one of the hundreds of awful fanfics that already characterize the companions that way.

Modifié par Nefla, 26 juillet 2013 - 01:11 .

[Adela]

Trista Hawke wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Luv the fighting. rotfl.
What do the people who want this really want ?
Psychopaths, sociopaths, schizoid personalities, deviates.
Sounds like the BSN.
rotfl.
Seriously, what do they want ?

 

I'm obviously being misinterpreted. I threw emotional/physical abuse out there as a random example. I had other examples to describe a dysfunctional companion. When I said abuse, I was thinking of an overbearing "mommy dearest" type of relative. For a dysfunctional friendship, I was thinking more along the lines of lying/cheating/betrayal. That could also apply to an LI. And I wondered what it'd be like if a companion stalked you/was obsessed with you in the beginning vs. being completely put off by you and you have to give him/her gifts to sway their approval. (Yawn.)

The thing is, I found the relationships advertised as dysfunctional in the other two games as being incredibly watered down. It's like watering down combat - those relationships were all too easy, especially because of gifts. 

I think, as I've said twice now, if there's a "nightmare" mode for combat, then there should be a "nightmare" mode for at least *one* of the companions. Socializing is as big of a part of DA as combat. 

Ag99 decided to take my post to a personal level and accuse me of being ignorant, as well as gluttonous for pain/punishment. 

It's a video game. I do not live vicariously through video games. Me wanting at least one incredibly tough-to-like/love companion is not a basis for personal attacks. You know what I mean? If we're judging people's personal lives based on video game playing preferences, then more than half of you would be assumed to be in love with the idea of murder. (<-- For Ag99 - that last sentence was sarcasm.)

LOL love it how u imply that im stupid enough not to detect a sarcastic sentence . Thanx for letting me know.

Modifié par ag99, 26 juillet 2013 - 01:40 .

[Am1vf]

Nefla wrote...

So you want one over the top, unbelievable, angsty, butthurt, abusive, murderous, possibly rapist companion who is even worse than the ones we have...what would that add? A character like that should be locked up and there is no believable reason to have them accompany you. That's called bad writing, go read one of the hundreds of awful fanfics that already characterize the companions that way.

I think the idea is more along the line of having realistc and totally believable "angsty, butthurt, abusive, murderous, possibly rapist companion who is even worse than the ones we have..."

Because ****ty people exist too.

[AutumnWitch]

Am1_vf wrote...


Because ****ty people exist too.

That may be true but I sure as hell don't spend a lot of time arond them unless I am foreced to. Would not be my choice as a companion.

[Am1vf]

AutumnWitch wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...


Because ****ty people exist too.

That may be true but I sure as hell don't spend a lot of time arond them unless I am foreced to. Would not be my choice as a companion.

Well, mine niether. But I still don't know how the Inquisitor will be.

[Ryzaki]

AutumnWitch wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...


Because ****ty people exist too.

That may be true but I sure as hell don't spend a lot of time arond them unless I am foreced to. Would not be my choice as a companion.

True but there are reasons the PC would be unable to kill/tell them to bugger off.

They might be someone needed for the main quest, they might be simply too strong for the PC to kill (either in strength, connections or both), and so on.

But I don't see BW (or any video game really) handling that with the variety and delicacy that requires.