202 réponses à ce sujet

[Blackrising]

And your point is?
Of course every character has flaws. That's what makes them human as opposed to cardboard cutouts. Their flaws are what endears them to me.

[CronoDragoon]

Soul crushed. At least there's still a Santa Claus.

[mopotter]

 I replay enough that I can usually find things to like about almost any character, especially if they have a sense of humor.   Sometimes I have to work at it though.  Took me a while to find something to like with Morrigan, but my female mage became her best friend.   Most flaws don't bother me, it helps round out the character, and often what some people see as flaws I see as quirky.  Perfect would be boring, and even a perfect character would be flawed because they probably have deep insecurities causing them to try for perfection.  
I do get irritated with the rival option which, to me, makes their whole personalities broken.  Fenris because he hates mages but follows Hawke around and if you play it "right" he'll fight with you for the circle. I did this once and only once because it just didn't feel right.  The one that felt right was the mage/Fenris romance where he left to fight for the other side and died.  

I've heard that this happens with  Anders, he hates the templars but if your 100% rial you can get him to fight for them, but this one I've never done.  Ran away with him and I've killed him.  

I've never found a character that I see as perfect, but yep, have seen some things here so I'm sure there are those who do think if they like a character, that character must be perfect.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Bionuts wrote...

1. Sten

Dislikes: I dislike how he goes all "kissy face" on you after finding his sword. If he was more honorable, he would've acknowledged the Warden's prowess before she found it. I also dislike him insisting on going straight after the Archdemon.

Sten's a soldier, not a general.  He's a weapon who goes where he's pointed.  His interpretation of every problem is to tackle it head-on.  His insistence on going directly for the archdemon tells us a lot about Qunari military organisation.

I found this aspect of Sten really interesting.

2. Leliana

Dislikes: Her constant talk of the Maker is grating to my ears. She's 33-35 years old, and she talks/acts like a teenager while seducing elves almost half her age (wtf?!).

Seducing elves half her age is what makes her awesome.  Way to go, Leliana.

[Maria Caliban]

Bionuts wrote...

I've noticed that fans of certain characters will overlook all of their flaws, make excuses, as if anyone doesn't have a reason for doing what they do.

Possibly because the flaws you listed aren't flaws. If your reading of a character is that shallow, people who actually think about the character in any depth are going to ignore your criticisms.

This doesn't mean they ignore all criticisms, just bad ones.

[Bionuts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

I've noticed that fans of certain characters will overlook all of their flaws, make excuses, as if anyone doesn't have a reason for doing what they do.

Possibly because the flaws you listed aren't flaws. If your reading of a character is that shallow, people who actually think about the character in any depth are going to ignore your criticisms.

This doesn't mean they ignore all criticisms, just bad ones.

They are flaws (subjective, anyways). I do not care for why those flaws exist. They exist. Calling them "shallow" is stupid.

Tis' a humorous take on it to make a point, however. I wouldn't actually approach a serious conversation like that.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

1. Sten

Dislikes:
I dislike how he goes all "kissy face" on you after finding his sword.
If he was more honorable, he would've acknowledged the Warden's prowess
before she found it. I also dislike him insisting on going straight
after the Archdemon.

Sten's a soldier, not a general.  He's a
weapon who goes where he's pointed.  His interpretation of every
problem is to tackle it head-on.  His insistence on going directly for
the archdemon tells us a lot about Qunari military organisation.

I found this aspect of Sten really interesting.

2. Leliana

Dislikes:
Her constant talk of the Maker is grating to my ears. She's 33-35 years
old, and she talks/acts like a teenager while seducing elves almost
half her age (wtf?!).

Seducing elves half her age is what makes her awesome.  Way to go, Leliana.

1. I already know why Sten is as he is. It is a flaw, though.

2. Yes, she's awesome, but her teenage attitude is a bit overdone.

[legbamel]

There's a difference between explaining or trying to understand how a character developed their flaws and excusing them, too. While I have seen people give their favorite characters a "pass" because of this most often I've read (and written) posts looking into the reasons a character acts the way they do because the flaws are part and parcel of what makes them good charcters in the first place.

[Bionuts]

legbamel wrote...

There's a difference between explaining or trying to understand how a character developed their flaws and excusing them, too. While I have seen people give their favorite characters a "pass" because of this most often I've read (and written) posts looking into the reasons a character acts the way they do because the flaws are part and parcel of what makes them good charcters in the first place.

Exactly. I understand (and can appreciate) the reasons behind their flaws. If I agreed with everything a characted did/was then the game would be boring.

This thread is just acknowledging those flaws in a light-hearted manner.

[Am1vf]

legbamel wrote...

There's a difference between explaining or trying to understand how a character developed their flaws and excusing them, too. While I have seen people give their favorite characters a "pass" because of this most often I've read (and written) posts looking into the reasons a character acts the way they do because the flaws are part and parcel of what makes them good charcters in the first place.

Thanks.
This is what I wanted to say but didn't manage to put it into words. Damn writer's block!

Modifié par Am1_vf, 23 juillet 2013 - 05:59 .

[thats1evildude]

I still don't understand this 'seducing elves' business.

[Bionuts]

thats1evildude wrote...

I still don't understand this 'seducing elves' business.

I can't None of my characters can resist her charm. Since most of my characters are elves, they end up giving in to her cuteness.

Leliana's too cut for her own good. Seducing Warden's left and right.

[Hazegurl]

Bionuts wrote...

1. Sten

Dislikes: I dislike how he goes all "kissy face" on you after finding his sword. If he was more honorable, he would've acknowledged the Warden's prowess before she found it. I also dislike him insisting on going straight after the Archdemon.

Newsflash but Qunari are d*cks. He doesn't owe your PC anything.

2. Leliana

Dislikes: Her constant talk of the Maker is grating to my ears. She's 33-35 years old, and she talks/acts like a teenager while seducing elves almost half her age (wtf?!).

I agree, but you can avoid that by not talking to her and i say this as a person who was never too fond of her.

3. Fenris

Dislikes: "mages, mages, mages, mages, mages". He's jealous of mages. That's pretty clear. His insecurity has driven him to hate, and it's sour to the mouth.

Jealous of mages? Why cause Anders says so? Funny how I don't see him listed here nor Merrill and they have  a large group of ppl who over look their glaring flaws. Anyway Fenris' flaws is that he is pig headed and very stubborn.

4. Flemeth

Dislikes: "hello, flemeth" *flies away*. She uses the PC+companions as object of mental stimulation. Oh, with her sarcasm, outlandish personality, etc. She uses us for amusement, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Flemeth owes no one anything. besides i like that better than the constant fawning over the PC every other NPC does.

5. Alistair

Dislikes: "duncan, duncan *cries*, duncan, *stutters*, duncan, 'i luve u', duncan". I don't like his fetish with Duncan, or his care for a man that treated him like a dog. He's naive, a pushover, a manchild... I like to harden him and make him king. Best buddies with my elves.

I agree. makes me wonder if he wasn't in love with Duncan. LOL! it would have been cool if he could harden himself after his encounter with his sister.

Add ons:

Anders

Dislikes: Whining crybaby. templars this and templars that. Opression everywhere. He's nothing but a liar and a user. Along with being  a mass murderer.

Merrill

Dislike: Thinks she's more clever than she really is. Demon worshipper and elf supremacist.

Isabella

Dislike: STDs

[Hazegurl]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Sorry. Cullen is perfect.

now this I agree with.

[Bionuts]

Hazegurl wrote...

Jealous of mages? Why cause Anders says so? Funny how I don't see him listed here nor Merrill and they have  a large group of ppl who over look their glaring flaws. Anyway Fenris' flaws is that he is pig headed and very stubborn.

If you take him to the fade, the temptation for him is to be as powerful as the Tevinter mages.

Flemeth owes no one anything. besides i like that better than the constant fawning over the PC every other NPC does.

Yesh, Flemeth is awesome. Doesn't mean I have to enjoy how she uses the PC.

I agree. makes me wonder if he wasn't in love with Duncan. LOL! it would have been cool if he could harden himself after his encounter with his sister.

By that point, I pity him, so I do what I can to force him into being King.

Add ons:

Anders

Dislikes: Whining crybaby. templars this and templars that. Opression everywhere. He's nothing but a liar and a user. Along with being  a mass murderer.

A hypocrite..

Merrill

Dislike: Thinks she's more clever than she really is. Demon worshipper and elf supremacist.

Prideful, manipulative, and in constant denial (until her clan is killed off)

Isabella

Dislike: STDs

Flemeth has had sex with more men that Isabela (I think), but it's not something that really matters. Isabela is somewhat of a joke. It's like "yes, we get it. you like sex.".

[Degs29]

Bionuts wrote...

Vort3xX wrote...

Ok but what in my case then ? i hate all characters but it doesn't mean they suck.

That's good. You can acknowledge they're well written, but don't have personalities tailored to your liking.

True.  I've never liked Tali's personality (well actually, there were a couple moments I did like).  But I think she's very well written.

That said, when it comes to characters we like, we like them despite their flaws.  It's not that I think we ignore their flaws, only that the good outweighs the bad.  When someone says they don't like a character I absolutely love, I accept that is their opinion and that they value separate traits differently than I do.

[CronoDragoon]

Degs29 wrote...
That said, when it comes to characters we like, we like them despite their flaws.

Well, to rephrase this, we like their flaws because they usually imply conflict within the character, which is pretty important for interesting characters.

[legbamel]

It's funny to me that so many people rag on Isabela for being all about sex. I got the distinct impression that, while she's certainly not chaste, she was more facade than fact. Any pirate can get a dose of the clap, you know! But that's something that only comes up in thenfirst act, if I remember correctly. There's no confirmation that's she's sleeping her way acros Kirkwall after that.

[Am1vf]

I would say we like the character because of their flaws, instead of despite them. For example someone can find Merril's social awkwardness cute or fenris' brooding impresive and sexy (according to Varric).

[Bionuts]

I like Merril. I think she's one of the best written characters in DAU.

Her flaws are the reason I like her. And the romance scene had me in tears (both friend and rival)

*runs*..

[Magdalena11]

I like those flaws more than their "good points" more often than not. I adored the light-hearted Anders in Awakening but when he went over the top in DA2 that was excellent. He, Fenris, Isabela, and Varric were so cartoonish that I keep going back for seconds. Having said that, I could never get into Leliana, Wynne or Sebastian.

I've got a character with no flaws: Shale. She's perfect just as she is.

[Browneye_Vamp84]

Shale is flawless with or without her crystals.

*tiptoes out*

[garrusfan1]

uh garrus is perfect as is varric and wrex or are you just talking about DA characters and not bioware characters in general

[nightscrawl]

Not all fans of a given character are the same.

You know, it could be assumed that every one of the companions that you didn't mention you are in fact a fan of, or like in some manner, and might also defend them.

Anders wasn't mentioned, but I'll throw him in here anyway. I have a sort of love/hate relationship with that character. His storyline, particularly for a rival play, is my favorite, but I don't necessarily like him as a person.

As for Fenris, I certainly know he has his flaws -- who doesn't? -- but I like him in spite of those.

I don't care if you like or dislike some follower. I'm not too keen on Merrill. But it seems to me that a lot of complaints made about the companions come from not actually listening when they talk, or from only taking a certain aspect of them and magnifying it until that is all there is.

Unfortunately, some companion depth is only revealed if you romance them, as is the case with Isabela and Zevran. But I do think that they are well written, with multifaceted personalities that come through, not only in dialog but during the party banter as well.

[nightscrawl]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Degs29 wrote...
That said, when it comes to characters we like, we like them despite their flaws.

Well, to rephrase this, we like their flaws because they usually imply conflict within the character, which is pretty important for interesting characters.

Yepper. I agree with both of these.

[Bionuts]

garrusfan1 wrote...

uh garrus is perfect

I beg to differ.