219 réponses à ce sujet

[levyjl1988]

 

Agree? Disagree?

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

I think this is a very interesting video and a volley of opinions who aren't quite as invested as some of the members of the forums is refreshing.

That being said, I would have to say that the original ending is an absolutely awful way to end a series like Mass Effect, whether it be from the blatant inconsistencies, the terrible execution, or the thematic disconnect of it all.

[chemiclord]

I kinda do... and kinda don't.

On one hand, some of the accusations leveled on the ending to ME3 (your final choice is not influenced much, if at all, by the character interactions or decisions made previously... or that the final mission is lackluster) could be leveled just as easily at the previous two, yet finding people who have a problem with those is few and far between. I don't accept the "it's the last game, it should be different!" rationale. The structure of Bioware storytelling has been pretty common for years. None of their endings have been particular masterpieces... but they've been emotionally satisfying enough that the endorphin rush allowed players to overlook (and even forgive) those failings.

Now with that said, the ending to ME3, even with the Extended Cut, is a narrative minefield riddled with plotholes and gaping chasms of logic that the player is expected to fill in with their own personal interpretations, headcanon, and that dreaded "speculation" word. Even within their own storytelling structure, it is substandard and not particularly satisfying on a logical level, and barely passable on an emotional level at the very best.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Justin is right. I'm expecting a whole lot less next time. I'm not going to be getting at all emotionally invested in the characters like I did this series. I'll probably play it like a shooter. Meh. Let's go get some killing done and to hell with the story. Hell I'll probably just play a shooter and get it over with.

[Iakus]

the endings left me ashamed of Bioware.

[FlamingBoy]

rohan rivas sounded like he was reading of the "games are art" flashcards.

[Iakus]

FlamingBoy wrote...

rohan rivas sounded like he was reading of the "games are art" flashcards.

Was that the one I could almost hear nibbling cheese and sipping wine as he pontificated?

[FlamingBoy]

iakus wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

rohan rivas sounded like he was reading of the "games are art" flashcards.

Was that the one I could almost hear nibbling cheese and sipping wine as he pontificated?

The video kind of shows the disconnect between idelogy in terms of being pro-developer or pro-consumer in the industry, they didn't use the buzzwords such as entitlement or vocal minority but some of these guys got pretty close to the terms.

[chemiclord]

FlamingBoy wrote...

The video kind of shows the disconnect between idelogy in terms of being pro-developer or pro-consumer in the industry, they didn't use the buzzwords such as entitlement or vocal minority but some of these guys got pretty close to the terms.

I guess I really don't see the mutual disconnect that others do.  Personally, I fully agree that a developer can (and should) have the right to tell a story how they damn well see fit, and if players don't like it... too bad.  You stop supporting that developer if you don't like what they are providing.  That's the exchange.

But at the same time, I cringe whenever a developer or critic uses those buzzwords as a attempt to shield themselves from criticism.  "You don't like it?  Well, that's just because you don't UNDERSTAND it.  It's art, you filthy plebe."  Just because you created something doesn't mean it's good, and if it isn't, your customers are GOING to let you know.  Yes, some of them are going to cross the line from critique to abuse, but that's something a creator should know going in, and that's something you just have to learn to brush off and ignore.

[dreamgazer]

Meh. Same opinions, different megaphones.

No reason to get your panties in a bunch over who had what viewpoint.

[Bourne Endeavor]

"Don't forget that all throughout Mass Effect 3, your decision matter from all three games - on every level, on every world all right up until the end."
Matt Blair

Can I ask what game he was playing because it's definitely not ME3. Your decision amount to nothing. The Rachnni and Human-Reaper are so egregious as to be insulting. You collect war assets that accomplish nothing except increase an arbitrary number that unlocks another "pick your favorite color" ending. When your primary antagonist is Cerberus and two former squadmates who have abandoned them in previous game have virtually nothing to do with the story. That sort of drives home the disjointed nature of the narrative.

While I can appreciate people having a differing opinion. I found too many on the "disagree" side cite aspects of the game that were either irrelevant or blatantly false. References to multi-player, artistic licensing and the presumption we "know what everyone will do" feels like a copout. I suppose, if that is the general opinion - and I do not believe it is. BioWare is moving in a direction I may no longer find myself a fan of.

Of course, taking the gaming journalism at face value is almost laughable these days. They pretty much are advertisers, not critics.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 24 juillet 2013 - 04:41 .

[Kel Riever]

If you are going to continue to buy BioWare products, expecting less is a good idea.

[dsl08002]

I respect their opinions of course but for me the original endings are terrible.

But there is one thing that is most importent, Everything that Jerry said in the beginning about what connected the endings in ME1 and ME2 all of those things weere completley thrown out of the window. Unfortunatley it shows this conclusion.

Everything that made the games so wonderful can be removed and be replaced by either budget restriction or lack of time and some fans will be happy either way, playing the game only once. then they just move on to the next game.

[dorktainian]

"Don't forget that all throughout Mass Effect 3, your decision matter from all three games - on every level, on every world all right up until the end."

Matt Blair

What absolute nonsense.

They matter right up till London and then are thrown right out the window in favour of some insane mind tripping garbage plotting. Storytelling structure goes right out the window about half way through the game. Quest system in ME3 is non-existant to the point of stupidity.

Dont even get me started in regards to starjar.

[AlexMBrennan]

Rohan Rivas: "Games are Art" - yes, but art can be bad. This "argument" is a complete non-sequitur which fails to address the point at all.
Ryah Stevens: He agrees with the flaws pointed out but is happy overall, and for some reason this is counted as disagreeing with the original point. Again, it is perfectly possible to enjoy a game which is not absolutely perfect.
Daniel Bloodworth: A bit far into fanfictionland - a fight against mile-long dreadnoughts is not going to be won by ground troops, so obviously there wasn't any room for Shepard commanding armies.
Kyle Bosman: Strawman - "it should not have mattered whether [Shepard] punched a reporter" (true), therefore the game ignoring all choices is justified (false)
Rob Slusser: The complexity would have taken too long to resolve, therefore it's OK to cut things the player can fill in for themselves ("what the krogan and salerians do")... I.e. flaws with the ending are not flaws because they were caused by Bioware not thinking things through to begin with.
Matt Blair: No relation to reality.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

chemiclord wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

The video kind of shows the disconnect between idelogy in terms of being pro-developer or pro-consumer in the industry, they didn't use the buzzwords such as entitlement or vocal minority but some of these guys got pretty close to the terms.

I guess I really don't see the mutual disconnect that others do.  Personally, I fully agree that a developer can (and should) have the right to tell a story how they damn well see fit, and if players don't like it... too bad.  You stop supporting that developer if you don't like what they are providing.  That's the exchange.

But at the same time, I cringe whenever a developer or critic uses those buzzwords as a attempt to shield themselves from criticism.  "You don't like it?  Well, that's just because you don't UNDERSTAND it.  It's art, you filthy plebe."  Just because you created something doesn't mean it's good, and if it isn't, your customers are GOING to let you know.  Yes, some of them are going to cross the line from critique to abuse, but that's something a creator should know going in, and that's something you just have to learn to brush off and ignore.

Agreed. Personally, I would've been comfortable with prior decisions not influencing the endings if I felt that the ending was narratively coherent. There were too many "wtf" moments for me to accept it.

[King Mark XNIRX]

"next time I'll know to expect less"

Sums it up nicely.

[clarkusdarkus]

As soon as i couldnt import my shepard i wasnt expecting much anyway, But i will never ever
Forget the immersion i had with ME1, And will never ever forget how they ended ME3 and
the trilogy with too many wtf moments but more importantly for me was the total lack of class with ending the trilogy with a buy more dlc!

With next-gen, Cyberpunk 2077, witcher 3, dark souls 2, elder scrolls etc i will treat the next ME as shooter game with tacked on MP as EA wont allow it to be an RPG.

Modifié par clarkusdarkus, 24 juillet 2013 - 05:56 .

[RiouHotaru]

To be honest, expecting less is a better idea. Because people expected too much.

[Kel Riever]

Too much is expecting your average college graduate writer's ability to come up with an ending that makes an iota of sense?

Please...

[slaythatdragon]

ME3's ending was a disaster. But that they cared enough to make an extended cut is why I'm gonna give Bioware a chance.

So I'm still gonna go into the next one expecting a good ME game.

Modifié par Warden Mistwalker, 24 juillet 2013 - 06:49 .

[Iakus]

AC3 doesn't pretend your choices made a difference.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yeah, actually I'd like to see a mod done where we can make fun of the ending.

[o Ventus]

Wow, that video... That video hurt.

That was bad.

[Eterna]

"next time I'll know to expect less"

So much butthurt.