51 réponses à ce sujet

[levyjl1988]

 Let's see:

1. Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
Even right when the game was announced, crap hit the fan. Fans got angry. Here's the best video to describe it.  
The Cynical Brit - Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3


2. The Ending
http://kotaku.com/5896847/gamers-send-bioware-400-cupcakes
Also lead Bioware to update it's forums policy because of developers, publishers being threatened and etc. 

3. Tali's face Reveal
http://kotaku.com/5891242/gamers-are-now-angry-at-bioware-because-of-an-image-in-mass-effect-3

I'm pretty sure there were other complaints, just can't think of them off the top of my head, but damn...
I wonder if mistakes will be repeated. If something will be learned, or not. 

I don't blame the consumers, gamers for this response, sure the gamers acted hostile, but man did the companies prompt it. Anti-consumerism at its finest. 

Should you preorder games:


Used Games:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M

then there's link to Jim Sterling discussing these issues. I think people in the games industry should stop and absorb the feedback more often to understand it's customers. 


I'm going to go predict the next problem for ME4, more horse armor DLC! more store exclusive preorder bonuses, denying content from players, purchases of random items to get the full game. Pay for in game choices, we'll see how twisted next generation is going to be. Mad monetization of microtransactions now that online passes are gone. Increase of next gen prices.  I'm sure there are gamers with a lack of confidence now. But Bioware seem to redeem itself with Citadel DLC, extended cut not so much as it's still being discussed. Se gametrailers still talking about it. 

I wonder when the next video game crash is gonna be, when things are taken to the extreme. 

Modifié par levyjl1988, 26 juillet 2013 - 04:20 .

[Iakus]

ME3 cashed in a lot of goodwill from the fans. Their marketing has really got an uphill battle since they've got to convince these burned fans that things have changed while at the same time overcoming the distrust they built up over all the hype from the last game. People will be angry and suspicious and they have every right to be.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Yup.

[Sanunes]

The question for me is how much of those issues are also a bigger issue because EA is involved instead of a company like Valve and why some bloggers still mention the ending of Mass Effect 3, but won't talk about the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite which also hit sour notes with fans of those series.

[Argentoid]

Sanunes wrote...

The question for me is how much of those issues are also a bigger issue because EA is involved instead of a company like Valve and why some bloggers still mention the ending of Mass Effect 3, but won't talk about the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite which also hit sour notes with fans of those series.

Since when BioShock: Infinite's ending was called a bad one? 

[Iakus]

Probably because those two games are linear action games while ME3 at least claimed to be a choice driven rpg. In theory you're choices should have made it possible to avoid such stupid outcomes

[Cainhurst Crow]

iakus wrote...

Probably because those two games are linear action games while ME3 at least claimed to be a choice driven rpg. In theory you're choices should have made it possible to avoid such stupid outcomes

Did they do so in the other games?

[Modius Prime]

It only had such a huge boycott 'cuz BioWare has/had a lot of fans who enjoyed the game. A lot of what is being said right now is simply speculation, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have relevance; however, let's reserve judgement until we actually see gameplay. We all know what happened to what was promised by BioWare/EA when they were hyping the game. Anyways, here's a quote from one of BioWare's co-founders: Dr. Ray Muzyka: " I respect/revere fans because they speak with deep, honest, passion.

[o Ventus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Probably because those two games are linear action games while ME3 at least claimed to be a choice driven rpg. In theory you're choices should have made it possible to avoid such stupid outcomes

Did they do so in the other games?

With the exception of the scripted binary choice, yes. ME has always had a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to the big choices.

[Dieb]

I'm not going to explain in another thread how disgustingly wrong the whole Day-One-debate is.

DLC in general is also something I love about the current generation. I don't mean microtransactions --they are the equivalent of impluse buying rubbish at the ceckout, with the correspondent amount of self-inflicted disappoint-- I mean what passed as an add-on some years ago. And yes, I will gladly pay 15 € for two more hours and additional little features of my favourite game, than spending maybe just a bit more on a whole new game I don't even like nearly as much. It gives the devs a chance to keep their employment and a game alive and breathing. If that makes me part of the problem, then so be it - the basic concept of DLC is a great thing.

As for ME4, it's required to also look at some more recent events:
EA nullified the Online Pass. The next-gen consoles are a lot more supportive for free online content, removing upload fees and even support self-publishing for indie developers. All of which aren't facts dismantling your fears in their own right, but obviously there's a somewhat positive breeze for a change. It might not be much, but it indicates that the Big Bads are at the very least pricking their ears.

What I'm saying is, let's give those new guys a chance. Don't judge a game sans any footage by cupcakes and a particular DLC some happened to dislike.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 juillet 2013 - 09:56 .

[o Ventus]

DLC is a good thing.

DLC that is released on day one (paid DLC, at that) is not. DLC that was to be part of the core game but was cut to be sold separately (as was the case for the Omega DLC) is not.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

The marketing for ME3 was a wreck, and having a Prothean as day1 dlc was a nasty move.

[Sanunes]

Argentoid wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

The question for me is how much of those issues are also a bigger issue because EA is involved instead of a company like Valve and why some bloggers still mention the ending of Mass Effect 3, but won't talk about the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite which also hit sour notes with fans of those series.

Since when BioShock: Infinite's ending was called a bad one? 

I never said it was bad, I said people didn't like it.  The problem is there are the "people didn't understand it, so they are dumb" reactions to the people that had an issue with it or several gaming sites took it upon themselves to explain the ending.

[Dieb]

o Ventus wrote...

DLC is a good thing.

DLC that is released on day one (paid DLC, at that) is not. DLC that was to be part of the core game but was cut to be sold separately (as was the case for the Omega DLC) is not.

Day One DLC is what developers do after the game is finished. If they would release three months after release, the only difference would be that we'd have waited longer for the content it provided. It's not like a game is developed in the exact timeframe the player experiences it, level by level even. Some departments are finished with the contributions sooner or later, and that's when they start working on DLC. Ergo, there is nothing thievish or greedy about Day-One-DLC, at least not in cases like "From Ashes". Like with creative decisions, I don't believe fans are the more competent ones to make decisions on employee scheduling.

The Omega DLC was cut in early stages of the developement of the game to cope with multiplayer issues in time. Not scrapping what was created until then and completing & selling it later makes absolute sense to me. Noone tried to deceive you here, either.

edit: I admit though, I'm puzzled the publisher did not realize how Day-One-DLC looks to the majority of people, especially on the internet, where people tend to stop asking questions after they catch the first answer they like.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 juillet 2013 - 10:17 .

[o Ventus]

Considering that ME3 went gold less than a month before release, From Ashes was not made after the game was finished.

Unless you're telling me that they wrote, produced, designed, bug tested, and finalized that entire DLC in about 3 weeks.

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 juillet 2013 - 10:41 .

[Dieb]

Baelrahn wrote...
It's not like a game is developed in the exact timeframe the player experiences it, level by level even. Some departments are finished with the contributions sooner or later, and that's when they start working on DLC.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 juillet 2013 - 10:45 .

[o Ventus]

Argentoid wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

The question for me is how much of those issues are also a bigger issue because EA is involved instead of a company like Valve and why some bloggers still mention the ending of Mass Effect 3, but won't talk about the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite which also hit sour notes with fans of those series.

Since when BioShock: Infinite's ending was called a bad one? 

Since it tried to be deeper and more intellectual than it actually was.
And I LIKE Bioshock Infinite.

[o Ventus]

Baelrahn wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...
It's not like a game is developed in the exact timeframe the player experiences it, level by level even. Some departments are finished with the contributions sooner or later, and that's when they start working on DLC.

The only department that is going to be finished before everyone else would be the artists, and even that's only because creating concept art is one of the first things done.

[Dieb]

Going gold just means the last thing is added/completed to create the game's vanilla version, ready for distribution. That doesn't mean the entire studio is working in full capacity until the exact moment the game is announced gold. That would be rather unlikely, and also very unusual.

[o Ventus]

Baelrahn wrote...

Going gold just means the last thing is added/completed to create the game's vanilla version, ready for distribution. That doesn't mean the entire studio is working in full capacity until the exact moment the game is announced gold. That would be rather unlikely, and also very unusual.

No. A game going gold means that everything is in, it's been playtested, quality assured, etc. The game is literally done. It isn't like half the programming staff finishes a level in the core game then drops what they're doing to start the DLC.

[Dieb]

o Ventus wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

Going gold just means the last thing is added/completed to create the game's vanilla version, ready for distribution. That doesn't mean the entire studio is working in full capacity until the exact moment the game is announced gold. That would be rather unlikely, and also very unusual.

No. A game going gold means that everything is in, it's been playtested, quality assured, etc. The game is literally done. It isn't like half the programming staff finishes a level in the core game then drops what they're doing to start the DLC.

No... what? Ventus, that's more or less what I said. I'm beginning to think I don't understand what your counter-argument is in the first place.

Going gold means the game, as in the data appearing on the discs is done. The developers are done. What is often ommitted though, is that obviously not all departments finish their respective contributions together, at the exact moment the game goes gold. It's usually the QA and testing department, as one might imagine.

[Triforce Hermit]

Sanunes wrote...

The question for me is how much of those issues are also a bigger issue because EA is involved instead of a company like Valve and why some bloggers still mention the ending of Mass Effect 3, but won't talk about the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite which also hit sour notes with fans of those series.

True. There is a lot of bias towards EA that fuels the fire so to speak. Skyrim had horrible story all around with everything. But yet, no one talks about it except on the Bethsoft forums (where the rage is worse then the ME3 ending rage here). Beth did a horrible job with Skyrim's guild and main quest (which pissed off tons of fans of the series), but the game only continues to recieve praise, and that was a major part of the game that they poorly executed! But yet ME3 gets ripped to shreds for an ending.

Bias, I see it all over.

[voteDC]

The day one DLC issue is an important one.

Mass Effect 2 also had day one DLC but it was offered free to those buying new. What we got for buying ME3 new was an online pass, a requirement they are now removing from their games.

The biggest issue though was who the DLC was. Can anyone really say that the last living prothean wasn't going to attract this fuss, that he wasn't going to be considered as 'vital' to the story for those who've been playing since the first game.

Had Vega been the Day One DLC character I doubt you've have heard even half the complaints.

[Fraq Hound]

Triforce Hermit wrote...

True. There is a lot of bias towards EA that fuels the fire so to speak. Skyrim had horrible story all around with everything. But yet, no one talks about it except on the Bethsoft forums (where the rage is worse then the ME3 ending rage here). Beth did a horrible job with Skyrim's guild and main quest (which pissed off tons of fans of the series), but the game only continues to recieve praise, and that was a major part of the game that they poorly executed! But yet ME3 gets ripped to shreds for an ending.

Bias, I see it all over.

I assume most people don't play Bethesda games for the "Story" though. I know I certainly don't.

I play Bethesda Games because I want to experience the amazing open world sandboxes they create. If the story turns out to be good, then that's just icing on the cake. Honestly I think Bethesda's bland companion characters bug me more then the weak story telling.

Bioware games on the other hand... I play their games for the story and companion characters. Good gameplay is the icing there.

That's why ME3 gets ripped to shreds.