27 réponses à ce sujet

[JnEricsonx]

Topic.

[capn233]

Has been and still is Black Widow.

[Nitrocuban]

Valiant > BW
Just aim for the head, pop pop pop in like .5 seconds and reloaded before BW even has finished 2nd shot.

[capn233]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Valiant > BW
Just aim for the head, pop pop pop in like .5 seconds and reloaded before BW even has finished 2nd shot.

I disagree...

I tested them back to back for actual time to kill.  This was before the Black Widow got nearly a 50% damage buff in MP and subsequently SP.  The difference is mainly on mid-tier and bosses and overall ammo efficiency.

Mid tier enemies are more likely to die from one bodyshot of BW if their shields are stripped.  Or even two body shots out of cloak bonus.  Valiant basically only competes if you land all headshots (which is more than possible).  Against mooks if you have great aim Valiant may be better... unless the units start to spread out.  Then transition time digs way into Valiant's theoretical dps numbers.

Against armored targets Black Widow is better for a couple reason.  It has innate piercing so it does not lose damage with more piercing mods allowing full damage multiple hits on a variety of units (Ravager, Brute, Atlas...).  Importantly on an infiltrator, the firing cycle is easy to line up for reload cancel such that all shots are under cloak bonus.  Valiant's fire rate and rapid reload does not mesh nearly as well with cloak cycles for large targets, IMO.  Back before BW buff the comparison on an Atlas at Level 49 was 9 shots from BW w/ SR Piercing IV and Ext Barrel V vs 18 w/ Valiant running the same mods.  For Level V guns that represents 40% vs 50% total ammo capacity respectively... Now that BW does 900+ damage per shot instead of only 600+ it will take even less.

At any rate, I think a good case can be made for Valiant on the casters since it weighs less, but on Infiltrator I would pick Black Widow.  Really the biggest advantage Valiant has is just that you can get it for free right away.

Modifié par capn233, 25 juillet 2013 - 09:00 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

If you can reload cancel the Black Widow, it really does outclass the Valiant. Both are solid guns and you cannot go wrong with the Valiant per se, but on pure damage potential and consistency to maintain a high DPS. The Black Widow is simply a force. My only grip with it is the somewhat awkward RoF, although I blame my being use to the Widow for that. Ultimately, it depends what you want from your Infiltrator. The Valiant allows for more power dependency. Thus, if you smacking everything with Overload a lot. It may be the better option.

[Athenau]

BW is better on the infiltrator for all the reasons above.

[spockjedi]

I regret not starting to use BW + Ultralight SMG with my Infiltrator sooner. I was using a Particle Rifle coupled with a Mantis. Too much wasted weight.

[known_hero]

Harrier.....

[Forst1999]

Mooks: Most mooks will die froma headshot from either gun. The Valiant is quicker, but a body shoot might not be enough in some cases.
Shielded enemies: The Valiant's higher ROF is an advantage here. Again, if you can reliably do headshots, which shouldn't be so hard.
Bosses/armored targets: Huge benefit for the BW, more than outweights the small ones on mooks and lieutenants.
As the higher weight doesn't mena much to an Infi, I'd go with the BW.

[Nitrocuban]

If your aimig is bad and you can't hit the head, use the BW or think about not playing an SR wielding Inflitrator at all.
DPS wise the Valiant clearly outshines the BW with or without reload canceling.
https://docs.google....nbGRDYnc#gid=11

[capn233]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Erm, ... did SP weapons get any buffs at all?

MP balance change =/= whole game patch.

No, but whole game patch (1.05) is a whole game patch and most MP balance changes to weapons are in SP.

So Black Widow does the same damage as in MP.

Nitrocuban wrote...

If your aimig is bad and you can't hit the head, use the BW or think about not playing an SR wielding Inflitrator at all. DPS wise the Valiant clearly outshines the BW with or without reload canceling.

Cyonan's SP weapon sheet has been out of date since Patch 1.05.  See above.

And as I mentioned above, the 'multi-clip" dps comparison isn't valid anyway on an infiltrator when one weapon can fire all shots under cloak and the other is only firing part of them.  Black Widow has much more synergy with Tactical Cloak than the Valiant.  It doesn't matter if you can aim or not because the sustained DPS only matters to bullet sponge enemies that anybody can hit.  And against those enemies you can fire all Black Widow shots under cloak, you will be exposed to fire less, and you get full damage cover penetration w/ Piercing and or HV Barrel to allow full damage multiple hits.

Modifié par capn233, 26 juillet 2013 - 02:47 .

[Nitrocuban]

capn233 wrote...
Cyonan's SP weapon sheet has been out of date since Patch 1.05.  See above.

Indeed. Sorry for my foolish post.
But that just makes BW on mooks more overkill and Valiant is still faster. On bosses the BW might have an edge.

[capn233]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Indeed. Sorry for my foolish post.

I wouldn't say foolish since Bioware didn't put it in the notes, no devs would answer when we asked them, so we had to investigate ourselves.  You would have to have read the thread in here to know with any certainty that it happened.

But that just makes BW on mooks more overkill and Valiant is still faster. On bosses the BW might have an edge.

Well I would say that Black Widow damage is just about the right spot to one-shot unprotecteds in or out of cloak and 2 shot most mid-tier protecteds.

If cloak absolutely isn't in the mix at all, I would say Valiant might have the edge against basics, depending on how they are grouped.

If they are closely packed, but abreast you could take them out rapidly in three shots (as long as the weapon upgrade and character levels are such that you can't one-shot them), but if they are spread out Black Widow makes up a bunch of ground since the ROF handicap matters less.  If they are clumped in a line, then Black Widow has the advantage since you can more easily kill multiple units with a single shot.

If you add in the squad I think it starts to become a wash versus mid-tier since you have pawns to strip shields, so you are again in some sort of one-shot scenario where it just depends.

Basically I give Black Widow the nod on infiltrator because of tactical cloak synergy.

On casters I would favor the Valiant.

Soldier is where it is most complicated since Valiant can fire many more times under Adrenaline Rush, but Black Widow benefits a lot more from free reload, or would work better with CS spam.

edit: As far as which is more fun, I don't know.  Valiant has more of a scout rifle feel and is fun in one way, and Black Widow is fun in a different way.  I might be tempted to pick Javelin though since Athenau discovered you can one-shot protected enemies in SP with it.  And it is one of my favorite guns anyway.

Modifié par capn233, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:33 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Nitrocuban wrote...

If your aimig is bad and you can't hit the head, use the BW or think about not playing an SR wielding Inflitrator at all.
DPS wise the Valiant clearly outshines the BW with or without reload canceling.
https://docs.google....nbGRDYnc#gid=11

Interesting doc. While I knew the Piranha was beastly. It crushes the Wraith quite handily.

[BronzTrooper]

Black Widow

[NeonFlux117]

This is easy. Black Widow. Ignores shield gate, penetrates naturally, 3 shots per clip, highest DPS of any sniper rifle in the game. When pared with tactical cloak max to damage and disruptor or warp ammo- good bonus for infiltrator BTW, the best is energy drain but warp ammo is nasty. Anyways, yeah for an infiltrator or any aim king, the BW is the best. Period.

I've been rolling with an experimental class as of late. I call it the Widow Vanguard. BW level 10 with concentration mod and extended barrel, plus a blood pack SMG with light weight material. Still have a 138 percent recharge speed. It's brutal. Boom Headshot

[spockjedi]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

BW level 10 with concentration mod and extended barrel, plus a blood pack SMG with light weight material. Still have a 138 percent recharge speed. It's brutal. Boom Headshot.

This is exactly my Infiltrator's current loadout. I can't imagine a better combo: the Punisher compensates for the BW's heavy weight, slower fire rate (especially when using Cryo Ammo), ineffectiveness at close range and small spare ammo capacity. With Disruptor Ammo, the Punisher is deadly against any enemy. And even with the two weapons at Level V, the recharge bonus is 123%!

[NeonFlux117]

spockjedi wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

BW level 10 with concentration mod and extended barrel, plus a blood pack SMG with light weight material. Still have a 138 percent recharge speed. It's brutal. Boom Headshot.

This is exactly my Infiltrator's current loadout. I can't imagine a better combo: the Punisher compensates for the BW's heavy weight, slower fire rate (especially when using Cryo Ammo), ineffectiveness at close range and small spare ammo capacity. With Disruptor Ammo, the Punisher is deadly against any enemy. And even with the two weapons at Level V, the recharge bonus is 123%!

yep, the blood pack SMG is the best smg in the game. It's great for any class. But in all honesty, I think the Black Widow is the best gun in the game. It's amazing for any class even an adept. I've got an adept kit that's the exact same as your's and I run with shields and recharge armor mods, it's nasty. I bring James and liara/Javik for giggles just to see things go boom. Warp, plus incedarary grenade plus throw= fun times for shep and crew, bad times for bad guys, lol. 

[RA RA XD]

You might want to consider losing the concentration mod on the infiltrator. Unless the duration of the damage bonus when firing from cloak has been buffed since release, concentration mod prevents the third shot from receiving the damage bonus because of the time dilation iirc. Also you get exceptional scope dilation from maxing out your passive anyway.

What I would be interested in finding out is what is the best sniper rifle for the soldier now that the viper is utter trashcan ?

[RedCaesar97]

RA RA XD wrote...
What I would be interested in finding out is what is the best sniper rifle for the soldier now that the viper is utter trashcan ?

It is possible for a Soldier to one-shot shielded enemies with Kishock. I plan to record and post a video of it at some point. At level 60, I was able to one-shot a fully-barriered Phantom with a headshot. I had:
 - Disruptor Ammo max damage.
 - Combat Mastery max weapon and power damage.
 - +45% weapon damage and +10% headshot damage from armor.
 - Adrenanline Rush with Max damage was active.
 - Kishock V.

I could also one-shot fully-shielded Centurians and Nemesis without Adrenaline Rush provided I scored a headshot.
Apparently in Single Player, the Kishock deals 20% of its damage up front, and 80% as damage over time and has a high headshot multiplier. Credit to capn233 for the info.

Viper does proc ammo powers very well, especially Disruptor Ammo and Cryo Ammo which appear to proc 100% of the time. So with Disruptor Ammo you could shoot > concussive shot > shoot > concussive shot.

Black Widow and Valiant would also work on the Soldier. Activating Adrenaline Rush instantly reloads an empty weapon, so you could get a 6-shot Valiant and Javelin.

Indra with Incendiary Ammo and Explosive Burst should be pretty beastly.

Javelin and Widow are pretty pointless on the Soldier. Mantis works pretty good though, okay for two-shotting shielded enemies.

[Nitrocuban]

The Krysae is pre buff in SP, isn't it?
I never used it after after it got patched though.

[capn233]

Krysae is the nerfed version with ROF of 50.

[RA RA XD]

 The Kishock you say ?

I think it's time to go Whalin' 

[RedCaesar97]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

RA RA XD wrote...
What I would be interested in finding out is what is the best sniper rifle for the soldier now that the viper is utter trashcan ?

It is possible for a Soldier to one-shot shielded enemies with Kishock. I plan to record and post a video of it at some point.
...

RA RA XD wrote...
The Kishock you say ?
I think it's time to go Whalin' 

Then a whalin' we will go.

Omega is home to several varieties of Cerberus whales: The Cerberus Trooper Whale, the Cerberus Centurian Whale, the Cerberus Guardian Whale, and the Cerberus Engineer Whale. All of which were speared by Commander Shepard, who also harpooned two schools of Rampart Mech whales and the giant Atlas whale. Sadly, the illusive Cerberus Phantom Whales were not seen on the first whaling expedition on Omega.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 07 août 2013 - 10:50 .