Aller au contenu

Photo

If You HAD to Cut more than 5 Squad mates from the Series, who would they be?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
184 réponses à ce sujet

#176
Dieb

Dieb
  • Members
  • 4 631 messages

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

How about you not get upset because some of us think Liara is superfluous and unnecessary. I concur with Aurora. Not for the same reasons mind you, but overall, Liara didn't, in my opinion, have a role that warranted the amount of focus she got, and she certainly is superfluous to my Shepard, who thinks of her as that Asari that has a creepy crush on him and is obsessed with Protheans.


I would disagree - She is not my favourite character, but she does have her moments. Maybe her role as the Shadow Broker to play a bigger and more practically useful part in the third game would have been great, but I don't see how she's annoying.

I admit that without reading the comic about how she obtained Shepard's remains and brought them to Miranda, you have no chance to understand the significance of her actions, let alone -and more importantly- her precautionary intentions. Asides from just her feelings for Shepard, that is. While of course the "focus" on her for meta reason makes perfect sense - she's simply a constant throughout the trilogy, someone serving as a frequent reflection of how Shepard developed as a character. Joker or even the Normandy wouldn't be omnipresent enough to fill that role, and I cannot think of anyone else who could either.

Additional thought: You obviously have no chance to avoid  Liara seeing herself as your friend at the very least. Now, when a villain's disposition towards your protagonist is fixed and cannot be altered, it is obviously not a big deal - why do so many people have problems with a scripted friend?

Modifié par Baelrahn, 10 août 2013 - 08:02 .


#177
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

Baelrahn wrote...
why do so many people have probems with a scripted friend?


It's kind of breaking tradition with RPGs.

Only JRPGs do this. Western RPGs, not so much. It's like Bioware wants to be a little of both, and have the same kind of schmaltzy "gazing into the sky" moments with Liara like you do with every romantic pairing in a JRPG. It's more cinematic, I guess, but like autodialog, you start sacrificing roleplaying freedom the more and more you do it.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 10 août 2013 - 07:47 .


#178
RogueBot

RogueBot
  • Members
  • 830 messages
I wouldn't get rid of Liara, but it wouldn't hurt for her to have more interesting lines, a more distinguished personality, a better sense of humor, and a voice that didn't lull me to sleep (I like the voice actress, though).

Modifié par RogueBot, 10 août 2013 - 10:09 .


#179
Fixers0

Fixers0
  • Members
  • 4 433 messages
Jacob.
Jack.
Thane.
Grunt.
Kasumi.
Vega.

#180
dgcatanisiri

dgcatanisiri
  • Members
  • 1 751 messages

KaiserShep wrote...

I find the indignation over Liara's recovery of Shepard's body kind of funny, given the alternative.


Yeah, I laugh every time I read someone complaining about that.


It's called bodily autonomy - there's a number of people out there who put Do Not Resuscitate orders on file with medical practitioners because they're of the opinion that if they die, they should remain dead. For whatever reason, some people just do not want to have medical action taken to bring them back in the event that they are to flatline. And some of those people are playing the games. Yet the way that Liara's actions are presented are that she did the right thing and there is no arguing that fact, that it is completely one hundred percent the only option that was available to her. There is one buried comment about it that is bugged to disappear if you don't take it the first time you come across it AND loops around to the standard and neutral 'let me know if you need anything else' dialogue, and then it is entirely forgotten.

And before you say it, yes, on the terms of the overall story, Liara did the right thing for the galaxy, as Shepard was needed to stop the Reapers. BUT on the personal level, she has potentially disregarded the bodily autonomy of the person she looks up to and (unrequited or not) loves. And she does not show regret for the action, justifying it with the reasoning that she "couldn't let [Shepard] go." A sweet but still troublesome statement if romanced, just plain troublesome if she is not. But she says it regardless of romance status AND does not cite the importance of Shepard to combat the Reapers. The only reason that she gives for these actions is that she could not let Shepard go. And so, people like me want the ability to genuinely be upset and hear her apologize for putting her wants, needs, and desires above Shepard's. We want to address this elephant in the room - if someone I was friends with told the doctors to disregard my DNR and bring me back, I would be pissed at them and if there was any chance to repair the friendship, which there might not be, it would require us sitting down and having a serious conversation about this. If you're able to find it, there's the pissed off reaction, but there is never the follow up conversation directly addressing this.

Miranda regrets wanting to put a control chip in Shepard's head. Liara shows no regret that she handed off Shepard's body to Cerberus for them to play god on the off chance that their Frankensteinian science would pay off. Especially for Sole Survivors but even if you just did the Cerberus missions, this should cause some kind of visceral negative reaction in Liara now being complicit in their science experiments on Shepard - let's say they had put in that control chip, which would lead to TIM using Shepard in Kai Leng's place. Liara would then bear a burden of responsibility for enabling them to do that to Shepard because she directly gave them access to Shepard.

I'm not asking for an hour long discussion on the merits and disadvantages of Liara's actions. But I do feel that a serious conversation on this matter needed to have taken place and taken place on screen, and the fact that there isn't one gives the impression that the writing of the game wants me to see this as an implicitly good and proper thing that she has done, and I vehemently disagree with that stance. And, as a result, it taints her as a character for me because it was her taking this action.

Modifié par dgcatanisiri, 10 août 2013 - 09:49 .


#181
Patchwork

Patchwork
  • Members
  • 2 583 messages
I haven't read the comic so maybe there is a perfectly good reason why Liara didn't incinerate Shepard's body until it was nothing but ash and dispose of that ash so no-one could desicrate the corpse or use Shepard as a lab experiment.

Yes Sheaprd needs to be alive to save the galaxy but that's the meta reason, in universe Liara (or any member of Shepard's crew) handing Shepard's body over to Cerberus and walking away is unforgivable.

IMO they should have just put Shepard in a coma for two years, the whole dead thing was a case of Cool over Logic.

#182
ATiBotka

ATiBotka
  • Members
  • 1 008 messages
Thane
Samara
Morinth
Grunt
EDI

#183
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages
Liara, Garrus, Kaidan, Ashley, Jacob, Thane, Kasumi, Grunt, Jack, Samara, James and EDI.

I know the OP to list 5 names, but decided to make it 12. All these 12 characters can go.

I would like to have new, better-written characters in return if that's possible.

#184
Texhnolyze101

Texhnolyze101
  • Members
  • 3 313 messages
Aria
Jacob
Jack
Quarians as a whole
Reapers as a whole
Geth as a whole
Edi (robot version)
James Vega
Diana Allers (not a companion but still unnecessary)

#185
Barquiel

Barquiel
  • Members
  • 5 845 messages

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Aurora313 wrote...

Liara
Jacob
Thane
Morinth
Liara. Yes - I mentioned her twice. Particularly the fact that she descrated and plays god with Shepard's corpse. What gets on my nerves is Shepard can't call her out on it at all and is totally fine with it. What especially pisses me off is being shoehorned into her being my best friend while none of my renegade options from game one seem to have the desired effect. Frankly, on a meta level, its frustrating, on an in-verse level, Liara must have something deeply wrong with her if a pathological jerkass treats her like **** and she still trails after him anyway.


Yes, she should clearly forget the fact that Shepard saved her life a few months ago (if someone saved my life I would definitely try to return the favor, given the chance...but that's just me). And who cares that the Shadow broker and the collectors are also looking for Shepard? Because that isn't suspicious at all...


How about you not get upset because some of us think Liara is superfluous and unnecessary. I concur with Aurora. Not for the same reasons mind you, but overall, Liara didn't, in my opinion, have a role that warranted the amount of focus she got, and she certainly is superfluous to my Shepard, who thinks of her as that Asari that has a creepy crush on him and is obsessed with Protheans.


The complaint is simply absurd. Someone had to recover Shepards body, because that's the story Bioware wanted to tell (the Lazarus project). And "Liara recovers Shepards body" sells better than "some random cerberus operative recovers Shepards body". Bioware and Dark Horse want to make money with these Mass Effect comics, that's the simple truth about it.

As for Liara, TIM lured her to Omega and informed her that the collectors want Shepard. Both TIM and Liara agree that their interest might be related to the reaper threat. What is Liara supposed to do? Ignore the problem because Shepard was a bit grumpy in ME1? I think that would be petty and childish. Working with Cerberus is obviously a gamble (yes, I hate everything cerberus stands for), but letting the collectors have their way is no solution.