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#1
GreyLycanTrope

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So I've got this friend and said friend wanted to convey his thoughts on ME3 to the forum after some time away from the series and all the DLC, so here you go:

"One Year Later | I Realize Why The Endings [Still] Hurt

I completed Mass Effect 3 on June 30th, 2012. Like many others, I was deeply afflicted with the endings. They  plunged me into a deep two-month depression and have left scars on me that are reflected by a significantly  stronger sense of jadedness and cynicism in my personality. Can you believe that? Something like that can be elicited a “video-game”. A year ago, I thought I would never play Mass Effect again, I certainly didn’t care for the multiplayer and didn’t pay the DLCs or MEHEM any mind. But in May, I decided to play it again. I wouldn’t be able to do it in June because I was going away so I did it as a kind of early anniversary type of thing.

I thought that my perspective – my thoughts and feelings about the game and the endings – would have changed after a year. Maybe my hatred for the endings has waned, maybe I can look at the game more objectively and clearly now. Maybe I only hated them so much before because they were so disappointing.

I was wrong. I hate the endings now more than ever.

It was just like last time, I ran through the whole trilogy; same DLCs installed, same Romance, same mission order and same choices for the most part, nothing new. Though I will admit my Sheard was a bit more of a Renegade than usual. My canon Shepard is a Paragade (About 60% of my choices were Paragon, 40% were Renegade). This time, my canon Shepard was almost borderline neutral. I made the Paragon choices where they
counted – I saved Wrex, the Rachni, the Council, etc. But I was a Renegade everywhere else. I either killed, or acted like an **** to anyone I didn’t like, which constituted almost everybody outside of my crew. I guess you could say I played a Paragade in that I achieved Paragon ends by Renegade means. But enough of that, I’m not here to tell you about what my Shepard was like.

One thing was different though. I was playing as a Vanguard instead of an Infiltrator. Consequently, Reave would be an invaluable bonus power in the third game. Except the only way to get it is after a conversation with Kaidan
on the Normandy after the Citadel Coup. On my last character, I saved Kaidan during the Citadel Coup, but I basically told him to get the hell off my ship right after for his continuous second-guessing and Cerberus
suspicions (which had climaxed in that very heated moment on the Presidium). I never really liked Kaidan. I don’t dislike him, but I’m indifferent. This time I let him stick around so I could get Reave.

Then I had that conversation with him in the Presidium Commons at Apollo’s Café. I’ll include a link below for reference.



“You know, my life flashed in front of my eyes back on Mars, and, there weren’t enough moments like this – with people I care about.”

It was that line, and the following conversation, that made me realize something about Mass Effect. I don’t know why I didn’t realize it before, or why it had to be put so plainly, but…

Mass Effect was never about Reapers or Organics vs. Synthetics or Humanity or any of that BS. Mass Effect was about Friends. Kaidan, as well as everyone else on the Normandy, cared about Shepard. They cared about you. To develop an emotional attachment to a fictional character is one thing… to have them develop an emotional attachment to you, not another character, but YOU – Shepard, for that feeling to be reciprocated… that’s unheard of.  You can't find that anywhere else. That is what made Mass Effect so unique, and why people loved the franchise like no other.

And that’s when I realized why the Endings hurt, why they still do now, and why people hate/hated them so much.

People never hated the endings because of the bad writing or the plot holes. They hated it because of how it made them feel. That’s why people still hate the endings now, and why some will never forgive Bioware. Because
they took that away from you. Because of that feeling...

As you  walk toward and begin shooting that tube and An End Once And For All begins to play and you get the flashbacks of your closest friends... you're forced to destroy this unique, beautiful and personal universe,
and say goodbye in the worst possible way to all those people whom you developed this special bond with, you feel as if everything you’ve ever loved is slipping away, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Like sand sifting through tightly clenched fists."
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Personally I can't say I agree with this stance entirely. While I certainly don't enjoy how the end made me feel (and it is one of the main reasons I don't like it) I still find my bigger gripes to be the confused plot and hamfisted resolution. My fellow haters, what's you take on this?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:02 .


#2
valkulon

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Joining the circlejerk of people saying it wasn't because they didn't get the happy ending they wanted, but because the ending made no thematic sense.

(Yet with so many people saying Citadel DLC is their ending this totally rings false)

#3
Indy_S

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Yeah, I think finding the "one true problem" with the endings is an impossible goal. While your friend's concern is valid and even true for me, I think your own complaints are more in line with my issues.

#4
Cainhurst Crow

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This gives me creepy crazy stalker vibes from your friend. He should maybe see a professional, as he seems to be exhibiting a dangerous level of emotional dependance for basic human needs and interaction from this fictional material.

#5
ShepnTali

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I'm sure ME appealed to different people for different reasons, but there is no denying that a healthy portion got hooked because of the personalities and general adventure. The plot, while certainly interesting at a base level, was secondary. Fun adventure with fun characters. Yeah, yeah, we'll deal with this galactic menace in the end.


For better or worse, the series said different things to different people. Some got what they expected, some did not, and others don't care what they got.

#6
DirtyPhoenix

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*Cuts off an ear and throws at Greylycantrope*

Hey, I want it back when you're done!

#7
GreyLycanTrope

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Valhart wrote...

Joining the circlejerk of people saying it wasn't because they didn't get the happy ending they wanted, but because the ending made no thematic sense.

(Yet with so many people saying Citadel DLC is their ending this totally rings false)

Fairly sure the Citadel DLC thing is just the desire to end things on a high note instead of...well whatever the hell the actual conclusion was.

pirate1802 wrote...

*Cuts off an ear and throws at Greylycantrope*

Hey, I want it back when you're done!

Posted Image

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:29 .


#8
GreyLycanTrope

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

This gives me creepy crazy stalker vibes from your friend. He should maybe see a professional, as he seems to be exhibiting a dangerous level of emotional dependance for basic human needs and interaction from this fictional material.

Isn't much different from the folks getting devistated by the Red Wedding in GoT. Fans give a hoot about fictional universes/characters, who knew right?

#9
AresKeith

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

This gives me creepy crazy stalker vibes from your friend. He should maybe see a professional, as he seems to be exhibiting a dangerous level of emotional dependance for basic human needs and interaction from this fictional material.

Isn't much different from the folks getting devistated by the Red Wedding in GoT. Fans give a hoot about fictional universes/characters, who knew right?


It's still too soon man

#10
valkulon

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Valhart wrote...

Joining the circlejerk of people saying it wasn't because they didn't get the happy ending they wanted, but because the ending made no thematic sense.

(Yet with so many people saying Citadel DLC is their ending this totally rings false)

Fairly sure the Citadel DLC thing is just the desire to end things on a high note instead of...well whatever the hell the actual conclusion was.


That's the point. They didn't get Shepard spending the rest of his or her days with his or her LI among other things. They argue that they didn't like the ending because it made no thematic sense with the rest of the series, yet those same people claim that Citadel DLC is their ending to the game, that it made them OK with the endings of ME3. Do you see my point? If the party was the end of ME3 I'm fairly positive that the backlash from the endings would of been much smaller, because it was a happy ending.

Don't get my wrong, while I might be fine with the endings, I know that they are a far cry from what they should have been at launch, and I mostly put that down to the time constraints they worked under, and I do believe Bioware or EA or whoever is in charge is under no illusions now if they put out a half done ending like ME3 had that they are going to be done as a company, DA:I getting another year of development is a pretty good indicator of this.

#11
Cassandra Saturn

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actually, it was EA's... they put Bioware on deadline like they did with ME2. Bioware were not given free time to finish a fully game. it's horrible for Bioware i'm sure

#12
GreyLycanTrope

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Valhart wrote...
That's the point. They didn't get Shepard spending the rest of his or her days with his or her LI among other things. They argue that they didn't like the ending because it made no thematic sense with the rest of the series, yet those same people claim that Citadel DLC is their ending to the game, that it made them OK with the endings of ME3. Do you see my point? If the party was the end of ME3 I'm fairly positive that the backlash from the endings would of been much smaller, because it was a happy ending.

Don't get my wrong, while I might be fine with the endings, I know that they are a far cry from what they should have been at launch, and I mostly put that down to the time constraints they worked under, and I do believe Bioware or EA or whoever is in charge is under no illusions now if they put out a half done ending like ME3 had that they are going to be done as a company, DA:I getting another year of development is a pretty good indicator of this.

I see what you're saying but I don't think that's quite it. For instance I say the Citadel is my ending but that's more do due with me wanting to end things with the fanchise as a whole being reminded of the characters I fell in love with and a sense of comradery an unity I've come to expect as a theme from the series. I'm not fine with the endings by any stretch of the imagination, I avoid them entirly I don't finish the playthroughs I stop before Earth specifically to avoid them because they leave me with a great sense of dissatisfaction and I'd rather not feel that way when I'm done playing.

#13
Isaidlunch

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I have to disagree with your friend. If anything, the ending wasn't heartbreaking enough and I found it hard to feel any emotion at all (besides apathy). Shepard just becomes a vehicle for the ending choice, after which he/she is mostly brushed to the side in favor of showing you a nice slideshow about your choice and the future of the universe.

Where's the focus on Shepard's death? Why isn't there a proper memorial scene to send off the character who this series was supposedly about? It's completely emotionally unfulfilling and that bugs me far more than any other issue I have with the ending.

#14
SSPBOURNE

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Your friend sounds like he has some serious problems. Get him a goldfish of something, geez.

#15
CronoDragoon

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Greylycantrope wrote...
Mass Effect was never about Reapers or Organics vs. Synthetics or Humanity or any of that BS. Mass Effect was about Friends. Kaidan, as well as everyone else on the Normandy, cared about Shepard. They cared about you. To develop an emotional attachment to a fictional character is one thing… to have them develop an emotional attachment to you, not another character, but YOU – Shepard, for that feeling to be reciprocated… that’s unheard of.  You can't find that anywhere else. That is what made Mass Effect so unique, and why people loved the franchise like no other.

And that’s when I realized why the Endings hurt, why they still do now, and why people hate/hated them so much.

People never hated the endings because of the bad writing or the plot holes. They hated it because of how it made them feel. That’s why people still hate the endings now, and why some will never forgive Bioware. Because
they took that away from you. Because of that feeling...


These two paragraphs are a non-sequitor because

As you  walk toward and begin shooting that tube and An End Once And For All begins to play and you get the flashbacks of your closest friends... you're forced to destroy this unique, beautiful and personal universe,
and say goodbye in the worst possible way to all those people whom you developed this special bond with


This is no longer true. You don't destroy the universe, and if he really only cared about his friends in Mass Effect, he can just pick Destroy and see them all again with the exception of EDI. Sounds like he's boo-hooing over no Reunion scene. There are much more serious issues with this ending than that.

#16
spirosz

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I never really had a problem with the ending. They weren't executed to a degree that I would particularly say... I like them, it's more the vanilla game that ruined anything for me. Not the "lack" of choices, just the overall disconnect I had with my Shepard throughout ME3, which can be subjective mind you, but feeling overall relates to auto dialogue, not being able to recreate my Shepard's face, the treatment of the Mass Effect 2 squad, which I preferred and so on. Now, I know about the whole "not your Shepard" argument, but I won't get into it. I realize there are certain defined aspects of Shepard and the whole aspect of illusion in relation to the input put by the player, but I was still able to role play to my needs, not in ME3 though. I loved what they did with Jack in the Citadel DLC, but again, fanservice at it's finest, which only relates to Bioware wanting to regain trust from fans.

You know, I always argued that ME3 could of used another year, but now that I think about it... I don't think much would of changed, the story outline would probably be similar at best and the themes of the endings would still be there.

You know what is weird? I find Matt Rhodes description of Synthesis better than what Bioware's writers did themselves, ha.

"This image was purely speculative on my part. I imagined the galaxy changed by the synthesis choice. Because life and technology were joined (and I didn’t know the Mass Relays would be destroyed yet) I imagined that there would be no more need for space ships. Any creature could just link in with the nearest relay and jump to any world they chose, surface to surface. This would start changing the biology of every creature in the galaxy as they would no longer be limited to any one environment. Here are some "

Posted Image

minus the forced green

#17
AlanC9

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Greylycantrope wrote...

So I've got this friend and said friend wanted to convey his thoughts on ME3 to the forum after some time away from the series and all the DLC, so here you go:


As a non-hater, I'm not going to comment on the post... but why didn't your friend post it himself? Or did he? It seems I've read this before.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 juillet 2013 - 05:43 .


#18
Iakus

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Valhart wrote...

That's the point. They didn't get Shepard spending the rest of his or her days with his or her LI among other things. They argue that they didn't like the ending because it made no thematic sense with the rest of the series, yet those same people claim that Citadel DLC is their ending to the game, that it made them OK with the endings of ME3. Do you see my point? If the party was the end of ME3 I'm fairly positive that the backlash from the endings would of been much smaller, because it was a happy ending.

Don't get my wrong, while I might be fine with the endings, I know that they are a far cry from what they should have been at launch, and I mostly put that down to the time constraints they worked under, and I do believe Bioware or EA or whoever is in charge is under no illusions now if they put out a half done ending like ME3 had that they are going to be done as a company, DA:I getting another year of development is a pretty good indicator of this.


The sentiments are not mutually exclusive.  

I mean, DA2 didnt' really make a whole lot of sense.  Story-wise, it was a complete mess.  But in the end, things can work out (more or less) for Hawke.  A happy ending can do wonders to mollify people.  It's the silver lining, payoff, the final emotion you take away form an experience, "The story sucked, but at least..."

This is why people adopt Citadel as their personal endings.  Because even though ME3 was a thematic mess, a contradiction to the rest of the trilogy, and a railroaded tragedy for a lot of people.  At least with Citadel, you can smile and enjoy the characters we've all come to know and love over five years.

"The story sucked, but at least..."

#19
Modius Prime

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I love what you had to say OP. Mass Effect, at least for me, was not about the plot; it was about the RPG aspects: being able to meet people, fall in love with them, and to experience what the game had to offer - that is what defined Mass Effect. I understand that people did not like the endings, but it wasn't because the ending was badly written; it was about how our choice actually affected the universe that we fought for/dedicated countless hours to. I, too, was depressed about the ending, but it really wasn't about the fact that it was an A, B , C ending: I was mad because of the fact that the story was over - that we couldn't see the people that we've grown to love over 5 years. All this drama over the game was fueled because we actually loved the universe that BioWare created and we did not want it to end, at least end in such an anti-climatic way. Anyways, great post OP and I hope your friend gets better. I still have to make my dedication video before I officially 'let go'. You're Kaidan quote kinda reminds of what Liara had to say on Citadel
Liara: "I spend so much time chasing knowledge. Sometimes I forget that there are things you learn by doing nothing... By just spending time with the people you care about."

EDIT: Sorry, my internet lagged and made me post 3 times <.<

Modifié par Modius Prime, 26 juillet 2013 - 06:12 .


#20
Cainhurst Crow

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I;ve seen double post. And I've seen blank post.

But I have never seen a double blank post before.

#21
ShepnTali

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"I spend so much time chasing knowledge. Sometimes I forget that there are things you learn by doing nothing... By just spending time with the people you care about."


This was a nice line. I saw a lot of little things people were asking for in dlc. While individual LI dlc was asked for, it's a bit much to expect. There was a nice compromise in Citadel. Poker night. Again, a nice compromise. Though the end is over and done with, I appreciate the love letter, which is Citadel.

#22
David7204

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I don't know what people think this attitude of 'Mass Effect is about the characters' is supposed to imply. That it's acceptable to implement extremely mediocre yet inoffensive content like the Crucible being nothing but a 'Reaper off button' or leaving the Reapers unexplained because the story supposedly is not about them?

No.

Modifié par David7204, 26 juillet 2013 - 07:08 .


#23
SpamBot2000

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Dat ending sucks on so many levels. Sure it is about destroying the universe (even with the EC, that's what you're doing - you're cutting it in 3) but it's also about nonsensical crappiness. It's just a big spiky ball of suck that you can cut yourself on from any given angle.

#24
GimmeDaGun

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Go on, cry me a river...

#25
Indy_S

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GimmeDaGun wrote...

Go on, cry me a river...

You seem put-out by Grey's post. You know reading it isn't compulsory, right?