364 réponses à ce sujet

[Clayless]

Yeah those were mass effect fields. Seeing as though they have no other form of propulsion they're a bit more complex than basic flight. Even ME3 has Bombers.And of course, the entire series has machines manipulating mass effect fields in thousands of different situations.

The moral of the story is, not only does the dark energy plotline make no sense and was badly foreshadowed, it makes even less sense when paired with the "humans are special" storyline.

[Redbelle]

Robosexual wrote...

Yeah those were mass effect fields. Seeing as though they have no other form of propulsion they're a bit more complex than basic flight. Even ME3 has Bombers.And of course, the entire series has machines manipulating mass effect fields in thousands of different situations.

The moral of the story is, not only does the dark energy plotline make no sense and was badly foreshadowed, it makes even less sense when paired with the "humans are special" storyline.

The way I saw this ending, was not that humans are special, or that there is some all encompassing purpose to the Reapers.

They are just the guy's who show up every 50k years and Reap the galaxy for reasons that are never divulged.

Does the reason really matter when your fighting against extinction?

Fighitng the Reaper's need's no other justification than a cell splits in two. The reasons are buried in the past and are lost. All that is left is fighting the monster to live the next day. You can find deeper meaning in protecting future other's if that's your want. But the core of it is a battle for survival till the last man's left standing.

[Clayless]

I'd be pretty mad if there was no explanation. It's like lazy writing 101 and would mean the entire series had no plot except "stop bad guys who have no motive".

[AlanC9]

Redbelle wrote...

Does the reason really matter when your fighting against extinction?

Matter to Shepard? No, unless there's a tactical advantage to be gained.

Matter to me? Sure.

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

I'd be pretty mad if there was no explanation. It's like lazy writing 101 and would mean the entire series had no plot except "stop bad guys who have no motive".

We had an explanation, back in ME1:


Shepard: What do you want from us? Slaves, resources?
Sovereign: My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence.

There.  They have a motive, but you're not meant to understand it.  An ant has no quarrel with a boot, and all that.  Sorry if that's not enough for you.  Too bad providing a "real" reason took all the mystique and menace out of the Reapers, turning them into a sad joke played over and over on the galaxy for millions of years

[AlanC9]

That would have worked fine if Reapers attacking us was like us stepping on ants. But this is more like us organizing our entire civilization around stepping on ants.

The Reapers are too weak to make that utterly superior and alien plot work.

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 juillet 2013 - 04:50 .

[Fixers0]

AlanC9 wrote...
The Reapers are too weak to make that utterly superior and alien plot work.

Thanks to Mass Effect 2.

[CrutchCricket]

AlanC9 wrote...
That would have worked fine if Reapers attacking us was like us stepping on ants. But this is more like us organizing our entire civilization around stepping on ants.

That's a mighty arrogant assumption for the ant to make, that simply because there's a lot of stomping going on, it means that's all the boots ever do.

Maybe our little anthill and the anthills that came before it were merely one piddly corner of a kid's backyard.

[DirtyPhoenix]

AlanC9 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

Does the reason really matter when your fighting against extinction?

Matter to Shepard? No, unless there's a tactical advantage to be gained.

Matter to me? Sure.

Exactly.

[o Ventus]

Fixers0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
The Reapers are too weak to make that utterly superior and alien plot work.

Thanks to Mass Effect 2.

... What?

[Bleachrude]

chemiclord wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I think the "genetic variabilitiy" angle of humanity got dropped in ME3 because someone actually told them...

"Er, you guys DO realize that humans are one of the least genetically diverse species on the planet right?"

Humanity was literally down to 10k-20k after an asteroid hit the planet and caused an extinction event...we are VERY, VERY lucky but even the quarians, unless they too had such an event in their ancient past, should be more genetically diverse than humans....

I believe it was a volcano, not a celestial body, that caused the Toba catastrophe... if we are referring to the same incident, at least.

But yes... humanity at this point isn't terribly diverse in a genetic sense.

Ah yep.

Messed up there....

So yeah, this is why the genetic diversity angle doesnt make much sense...

Still, I have to agree, the turian insult harbinger uses makes no sense....

What does "too primitive" actually mean in context of what the reapers are doing

[Bleachrude]

It can't be because of biotics.

I beleive people read the codex entry on biotics for turians wrong...

Nowehere does it actually state that biotics are "rare" among turians a la either the salarians or quarians (among them, biotics are considered RARE).

It's listed as simply UNCOMMON.

In all honesty, going by the codex entry, biotics s a percentage of the population should actually be the 2nd highest after the asari.

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

I'd be pretty mad if there was no explanation. It's like lazy writing 101 and would mean the entire series had no plot except "stop bad guys who have no motive".

We had an explanation, back in ME1:


Shepard: What do you want from us? Slaves, resources?
Sovereign: My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence.

There.  They have a motive, but you're not meant to understand it.  An ant has no quarrel with a boot, and all that.  Sorry if that's not enough for you.  Too bad providing a "real" reason took all the mystique and menace out of the Reapers, turning them into a sad joke played over and over on the galaxy for millions of years

"We can't think of anything" isn't an explanation. "We have no motive" isn't one either, especially coming from Sovereign, who lied from the moment you saw him.

Revealing that the Reapers had no motive would have made them a joke on a monumental scale.

[CrutchCricket]

Robosexual wrote...
"We can't think of anything" isn't an explanation. "We have no motive" isn't one either

Neither of which have anything to do with the post you're addressing.

Revealing that the Reapers had no motive would have made them a joke on a monumental scale.

Whereas what we have now makes them a joke on just about any scale.

[CptData]

StreetMagic wrote...

Well, if it's not related to lack of biotics among Turians, then I agree it makes no sense. That seems to be their only weakness (whether it's genetic or cultural, not sure. Seems to be both). Otherwise, they don't seem particularly primitive or even disadvantaged compared to others.

Must say, biotics are somewhat overrated. Why do I say that?

Well, take Thessia for example. That planet is the Asari homeworld and therefore everyone is a biotic. And still that planet got attacked and razed within hours, compared to the month-lasting siege of Earth or Palaven. Maybe the Asari lacked good tactics or Reapers used biotic-immune shock-troopers - I don't know. What I do know is that biotics didn't help to defend Thessia for a long time. And it also didn't help to defeat the Krogans in the Krogan Rebellion as well.

Therefore, biotics are most likely overrated. It does help if you have it, but for the final punch, use superior firepower with extreme prejudice.

Modifié par CptData, 29 juillet 2013 - 08:56 .

[chemiclord]

The thematic issue I have with the "Dark Energy" conclusion is that it takes the idea that humans aren't particularly special from the first two games, and turns it on its ear.

Logically, it makes even less sense than the "I create a synthetic race to kill all the organics to keep synthetics from killing all the organics." I create a society based on using dark energy to find a solution to all the dark energy usage! Brilliant!

Basically. it commits all the crimes fans have thrown at the current endings.  It's the preferred alternative by the raging fanbase more because of what it ISN'T than what it IS.

Modifié par chemiclord, 29 juillet 2013 - 11:08 .

[Clayless]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Robosexual wrote...
"We can't think of anything" isn't an explanation. "We have no motive" isn't one either

Neither of which have anything to do with the post you're addressing.

Is this sarcasm?

[CptData]

StreetMagic wrote...

In Drew's scheme, they didn't need biotics for firepower. He had some vague outline about how biotics would slow the spread of dark energy. That's why they attempted the first human reaper. Every cycle they needed to create a reaper that could (somehow) act as a galactic garbageman, I guess. The big "choice" was going to be whether Shepard allowed them to sacrifice the human race to make another Reaper or not. I don't know all the details though. There'd be all kinds of factors, I imagine. Perhaps Illusive Man would have offered his own ghastly alternative, but one that saved humanity, of course.

Well, as much as I'm supporting the dark energy idea in general, I dislike the idea of "special mankind" and the connection to biotics when it comes to dealing with that issue.

Thing is: ME would have been much better without explaining everything regarding the Reapers. In ME1, we -really- had no idea of them, except the Reapers wanted to destroy organics. In ME2, we already got way too much stuff to work with. The Reapers still felt quite dangerous, but they lost a bit of their fascination. And in ME3, everything's gone and got thrown out of the window in the last few minutes of the game. The Reapers - reduced to an illogical set of reasons why they exist and why they do what they do.
Ugh. The Reapers got the infamous "Borg-Treatment" - which means the narrator can talk the big bad to death so they're no longer interesting.

So no explanations here, that also includes any connections between dark energy and biotics. Leave it in shadows, give away enough for a nice puzzle but never tell the full solution, so everyone's puzzle is different. A true goal of a writer is to keep a reader invested in a story / universe beyond the plot.

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...


"We can't think of anything" isn't an explanation. "We have no motive" isn't one either, especially coming from Sovereign, who lied from the moment you saw him.

Revealing that the Reapers had no motive would have made them a joke on a monumental scale.

What are you talking about?  Sovereign outright tells Shepard that he/she wouldn't be able to comprehend what they're doing.  That's not "We have no motive"  at all!  It's simply an incomprehensible motive.  

If you don't understand something, does it cease to exist?

And Sovereign didn't lie.  Bioware simply retconned the Reapers.

[KaiserShep]

CptData wrote...
Must say, biotics are somewhat overrated. Why do I say that?

Well, take Thessia for example. That planet is the Asari homeworld and therefore everyone is a biotic. And still that planet got attacked and razed within hours, compared to the month-lasting siege of Earth or Palaven. Maybe the Asari lacked good tactics or Reapers used biotic-immune shock-troopers - I don't know. What I do know is that biotics didn't help to defend Thessia for a long time. And it also didn't help to defeat the Krogans in the Krogan Rebellion as well.

Therefore, biotics are most likely overrated. It does help if you have it, but for the final punch, use superior firepower with extreme prejudice.

To be fair, biotics is only one aspect of mass effect manipulation, one laughably ill-suited for battling reapers. I like to lean on the M-290 Cain for my mass effect goodness.