532 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
However, the example of ME3 shows what can happen if you rip them out of the game to sell separately (Sorry, Bioware, that's what you did, everyone knows it and no PR can cover this up since we have the leaked script to prove it). This character provided critical perspective on one of the core themes of the game, the synthetic/organic conflict. Characters like those should remain part of the main game, not sold as DLC.

Characters get removed from games, films and novels during the conceptual stage of development all the time. Scripts get drafted and redrafted and redrafted again. That they removed Javik once and then decided to put him back means nothing. That's just normal creative and editting process.

His role in the final game is different from what it was in early drafts, and having played his content, I utterly fail to see how his perspective is "critical", plenty of people have expressed broadly the same opinions as Javik in ME3 and in the previous installments.

Apologist drivel. If Javik was available as day 1 DLC he should have been part of the main game as first intended. And this coming from someone who purchased a CE. Looks like I had you right after all.

Yeah it was kind of obvious they removed Javik from the main game so he could be sold as Dlc.He even had all the dialog recorded for his scenes in the script ,so i find Bioware's reason that he was made after the game went gold to be a little disingenuous.

Modifié par cjones91, 26 juillet 2013 - 01:48 .

[Plaintiff]

Fandango9641 wrote...
Apologist drivel. If Javik was available as day 1 DLC he should have been part of the main game as first intended.

Like Shale was? Oh wait.

And this coming from someone who purchased a CE. Looks like I had you right after all.

A CE of what? Not any Bioware game.

I bought the complete trilogy box set when it was released for PS3, and Javik was not included. I bought him and all other available DLC at the time before starting a game. Prior to that, I had no experience with the ME series whatsoever.

[Wulfram]

I don't really care about all the semantic games about when the game is complete and when something counts as being cut from the game.  There's no real answer to that debate.  Though it's hard to feel ME3 is properly complete when I have a random soldier guy standing in for the DLC character at Shepard's big speech.

But I find the presense of major day 1 DLC a strong counter to the enthusiasm that might otherwise make me willing to pay the premium price to get the game on day 1 - the rational part of my brain can take over and tell me that I can wait a few months and get the game for a whole lot less.  And if the game is good, then I can conside buying the DLC and still come out ahead of what I'd pay at release.  

Ieldra2 wrote...

However, the example of ME3 shows what can happen if you rip them out of the game to sell separately (Sorry, Bioware, that's what you did, everyone knows it and no PR can cover this up since we have the leaked script to prove it). This character provided critical perspective on one of the core themes of the game, the synthetic/organic conflict. Characters like those should remain part of the main game, not sold as DLC.

To be fair, he probably provided critical perspective on one of the core themes of the game because he was the only character who was written after they worked out that Synthetics vs Organics was a core theme of the game.  It's one thing that lends credence to the claim he was indeed written last.

[Plaintiff]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...
Apologist drivel. If Javik was available as day 1 DLC he should have been part of the main game as first intended.

Like Shale was? Oh wait.

And this coming from someone who purchased a CE. Looks like I had you right after all.

A CE of what? Not any Bioware game.

I bought the complete trilogy box set when it was released for PS3, and Javik was not included. I bought him and all other available DLC at the time before starting a game. Prior to that, I had no experience with the ME series whatsoever.

Aye, I'd have less issue with Bioware gating party members behind a pay wall to protect themselves from the used game market than I would their taking the ****** out of the people who supported the game at launch. Disagree?

EDIT: And again, this coming from someone who intends to buy his Bioware games used going forwards.

Well I didn't buy my copy of Origins used, but I came late to the game and even with a new copy, still had to shell out for Shale because the included code had expired, so.

You were referring to yourself? That's very confusing. Usually when someone says "And this coming from someone who x", they're referring to the person they're talking to.

[cjones91]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...
Apologist drivel. If Javik was available as day 1 DLC he should have been part of the main game as first intended.

Like Shale was? Oh wait.

And this coming from someone who purchased a CE. Looks like I had you right after all.

A CE of what? Not any Bioware game.

I bought the complete trilogy box set when it was released for PS3, and Javik was not included. I bought him and all other available DLC at the time before starting a game. Prior to that, I had no experience with the ME series whatsoever.

Aye, I'd have less issue with Bioware gating party members behind a pay wall to protect themselves from the used game market than I would their taking the ****** out of the people who supported the game at launch. Disagree?

EDIT: And again, this coming from someone who intends to buy his Bioware games used going forwards.

And the worst part is with game budgets bloating out of control most developers are going to find ways of squeezing more money out of customer's pockets.Whether it's Day 1 Dlc,tacked on multiplayer,online passes or content locked away until you pay more money for it,game developers/publisher have to get their insane budgets in order for things like Day 1 Dlc to go away.

[cjones91]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...
Apologist drivel. If Javik was available as day 1 DLC he should have been part of the main game as first intended.

Like Shale was? Oh wait.

And this coming from someone who purchased a CE. Looks like I had you right after all.

A CE of what? Not any Bioware game.

I bought the complete trilogy box set when it was released for PS3, and Javik was not included. I bought him and all other available DLC at the time before starting a game. Prior to that, I had no experience with the ME series whatsoever.

Aye, I'd have less issue with Bioware gating party members behind a pay wall to protect themselves from the used game market than I would their taking the ****** out of the people who supported the game at launch. Disagree?

EDIT: And again, this coming from someone who intends to buy his Bioware games used going forwards.

Well I didn't buy my copy of Origins used, but I came late to the game and even with a new copy, still had to shell out for Shale because the included code had expired, so.

You were referring to yourself? That's very confusing. Usually when someone says "And this coming from someone who x", they're referring to the person they're talking to.

I was the same.I got into Dragon Age in late 2011 and bought the Ultimate Edition of DA:Origins at a local Gamestop,a few weeks later I ordered a copy of DA2 on Amazon and bought the dlc for that game.So I was a late comer as well but Dragon Age became one of my favorite game series.

Modifié par cjones91, 26 juillet 2013 - 02:16 .

[dekkerd]

Plaintiff wrote...

A CE of what? Not any Bioware game.

I bought the complete trilogy box set when it was released for PS3, and Javik was not included. I bought him and all other available DLC at the time before starting a game. Prior to that, I had no experience with the ME series whatsoever.

ME3 collectors edition included a code for from ashes. 

[syllogi]

I don't mind paying for Day One DLC.

I would prefer, however, to have a high quality mission, with unique weapons and armor, areas, and a good story, than to get another half baked companion character.

If the excuse for not giving DLC companions as much content as the rest of our party members is that they can't possibly give them the same attention as full party members, then the simple solution is to not put *any* companions in DLC, unless they are DLC only, like Tallis. It's disappointing to meet a character with tons of potential and relevance to the main plot, only to realize that they aren't going to be utilized well because they are DLC content.

Quite frankly, we won't miss any DLC characters we never meet, and if skipping creating a DLC character means a mission DLC has more content, I don't see why they would even be desirable.

Modifié par syllogi, 26 juillet 2013 - 02:23 .

[Cheylus]

Releasing day one DLC for free would be classy.

[Ziggeh]

If they tell us it fits better into the development cycle and that authorising the content for DLC is a seperate process (allowing the game to go gold while they continue to work), I don't think we can assume they're lying. Maybe they could reorganise their business or something, but realistically in asking them for no, or limited day one DLC, you're asking for less content at release.

And that's fine, but it's important to understand what you're asking for.

But I am conflicted. I'm less convinced that the prices they charge are required to keep food on the tables of the production team. Using it as new purchase incentive, like Shale seems like a solid practice, but out and out charging is simply about profit. And I can understand that as a motivation, but you can't do that and not expect complaint.

Not that I imagine they don't expect complaint over everything they do. Which is sort of the problem of crying wolf quite as much as we do. It makes it impossible to be taken seriously then there is a legitimate grievance.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:00 .

[drake heath]

DLC should be aesthetic things, self contained stories and interesting items.

Never characters who are to be with you for the entire game.

[Plaintiff]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well I didn't buy my copy of Origins used, but I came late to the game and even with a new copy, still had to shell out for Shale because the included code had expired, so.

Which is to make the case for what exactly?

That supporting the devleopers directly instead of buying used didn't benefit me any, and there's no functional difference between Shale and Javik. Any claims to the contrary are purely semanitc and subjective.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 26 juillet 2013 - 03:37 .

[hotdogbsg]

I'm not too hung up on Day 1 DLC and if it's something like an extra squad member or the like then I'll most likely buy it.

That being said, with DA:I being held back for a full year I'd hope that no content is cut from the full game due to time constraints; I beliEve that was the reason why Javik wasn't included in the basic release of ME:3.

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well I didn't buy my copy of Origins used, but I came late to the game and even with a new copy, still had to shell out for Shale because the included code had expired, so.

Which is to make the case for what exactly?

That supporting the devleopers directly instead of buying used didn't benefit me any, and there's no functional difference between Shale and Javik. Any claims to the contrary are purely semanitc and subjective.

Well, to be fair, Shale was actually content that needed to be downloaded. Hence the DLC title. 

Jahvik was on disc content. You only downloaded his recruitment quest. His content, in and of itself, was not downloaded. 

But ULC (UnLock Content) doesn't quite have the same marketing ring. 

[Vort3xX]

Well i'm not going to bother buying first day dlc anyway, they can make it and keep it.

[Joy Divison]

I didn't spend a dime for Shale, Sebastien, or the Black Emporium.

DLC on day 1 reeks of money grubbing. Whether or not the gaming company intended to gouge its customers or not is irrelevant, it's just a bad optic.

DLC *should* enhance the story and provide elements/interesting characters/different loot that make the vanilla game pale in comparison, but you know, wait a couple of months to to convey the illusion that I'm not buying stuff that 10 years ago would have been in the released product.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 26 juillet 2013 - 04:48 .

[mopotter]

Plaintiff wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

What was the Day One DLC for DA2? (I only discovered DA less than 2 years ago.)

Sebastian's DLC and The Black Emporium were both released on the same day that the base game was.

I loved the Black Emporium.  I like Sebastian, but I would like another place like the BE.  Yes, mostly to change my character's looks, :happy:but i also used it as a place to sell and buy things.  it would be a very nice DLC that I'd pay for and those who don't want it could skip it.

[Plaintiff]

Joy Divison wrote...

I didn't spend a dime for Shale, Sebastien, or the Black Emporium.

DLC on day 1 reeks of money grubbing. Whether or not the gaming company intended to gouge its customers or not is irrelevant, it's just a bad optic.

DLC *should* enhance the story and provide elements/interesting characters/different loot that make the vanilla game pale in comparison, but you know, wait a couple of months to to convey the illusion that I'm not buying stuff that 10 years ago would have been in the released product.

Sebastian, like Javik, only came "free" with special editions of DA2, so you absolutely did pay for him.

DLC sells exponentially worse the later it is released. There's no sense in waiting just to accomodate rose-tinted delusions of how gaming "used to be".

Modifié par Plaintiff, 26 juillet 2013 - 04:56 .