84 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

If you are looking for a change of pace for SP, give this a shot.

The whole thing has been inspired by Kronner's original Spectre Difficulty.  Now it sort of has a name with most of the vanilla game content tweaked.

Most guns are a bit better, but weigh more.  AI is more accurate.  AI does more damage.  Most units with shields regen them faster and to full capacity.  Powers have been tweaked, starting weight capacity is lower.  And importantly, Shield and Health gates are 0.01s and 0.01s respectively.

-0.32 has a few tweaks and some bigger changes.  Enemy shieldgate now 0.85 (logic in new post).  FE's on death only.  TB damage reduced, passive power damage reduction to Engineer and Infiltrator.  Disruptor Ammo fixed.  Health gate down to 0.01s.  Needs patch 02 to be applied since there are combo changes.

Gameplay (v0.42)

******************************


A. This will require you to download a couple other little tools, the minimum of which is Warranty Voider's launcher that allows you to play modded DLC (since the patch is counted as DLC by the program).
B. To be easy I have set it up for injection via femshep's Mod Manager.  This means you can first backup your DLC, then apply this mod, then go back to vanilla if you want to play MP or go back to the base game.  This isn't necessary per se, but if DLC stats get modded this will make it a lot easier.***See note***
C. If you don't want to run mod manager, you can do your own editing of the Patch sfar file, but you will need ME3 Explorer to do that most likely.
D. Changes count as preliminary and obviously can't be perfect out of the box.
E. I started with a copy of my previous coalesced, so it has the "Use" function already separated and it is bound to T (Talon fix is also in there... one that doesn't break Armax Arena terminal...).  Additionally, I think this is the one where if you press Numpad 9 you get a surprise...

Oh and the name... it doesn't exactly have one yet.  I was going to just call it X Mod while messing with it, but added a 0 in front so it would be the top directory.

--------------

v0.5 - Current version of vanilla game rebalance.

Changes Current Version

Firefight DLC Rebalance - Companion for above

Groundside DLC Rebalance - Companion for above

**Change log for weapons in the DLC packs are in those archives.  These are not the entire sfar so you have to have the DLC to be able to use them.

-Old Versions-

v0.11A - Vanilla Guns modified.  For a more ME2 feel for weapons.

v0.12B - Changes in above plus Difficulty and AI tweaks.  If you were happy with class and power balance, but wanted the AI to be a little tougher and the guns to handle more like ME2, try this version.

 

**For some reason, it looks like trying to apply the mod in version 3 of Mod Manager generates an error.  I am not entirely sure why it is doing this, but in the meantime the mod can be injected with the old version.

Modifié par capn233, 25 juillet 2015 - 03:08 .

[capn233]

See change log in OP...

Modifié par capn233, 31 juillet 2013 - 05:58 .

[capn233]

Since I moved up the working list of changes, I will just place the old second post on SMG's here.
***
To get this rolling... let's look at vanilla game SMG's (bc there aren't very many...)

Shuriken I-X
Wt 0.45-0.2
Dmg 38.7-48.3 (~232-289 per burst), 6 shot burst
Clip 36
Cap 360-468
Burst dps 300-375
MC RC dps 277-345

About all you can say about it is that it is very light.  It is the least useful for damaging enemies, and the firing is odd with the 6 shot mechanic.  The burst dps is lower than most weapon's sustained dps, although this has a decent clip size and fast RC times.  This weapon was a disappointment for anyone who figured out how to use it correctly in ME2.

Tempest I-X
Wt 0.65-0.3
Dmg 47.5-59.4, automatic
Clip 50
Cap 400-500
Burst dps 514-643
MC RC dps 436-545

What isn't in the above numbers is that this weapon has pretty poor accuracy and the stability isn't too hot.  It is light.  Blows the Shuriken out of the water, but that is like saying you blew the doors off a Citroen 2CV in a drag race.  Zoom aim error is 0.6-3.5 and really errodes practical damage.  Also extremely poor against armor w/o weakening or piercing.  This gun used to be a great shield stripper, but I am not quite sure if it excels at much besides being light and applying some ammo effects to basics.

Locust I-X
Wt 0.65-0.3
Dmg 40.8-51, automatic
Clip 25
Cap 275-350
Burst dps 374-467
MC RC dps 327-409
HS dmg mult 3x*

Basically some sort of evil twin to the Tempest.  In ME2 it was the SMG for people who really wanted an AR and was good at range and good against armor (relatively), while Tempest was good up close and against shields.  In this game it oddly is slightly worse than Tempest vs armor, although it has good accuracy and a higher than normal (now) HS modifier which makes it ok vs basics.  That sort of kills it as a primary weapon unless you have piercing or weakening, but more importantly the gun isn't even acquired until Horizon.  Personally I would have made this something akin to the CSMG in MP... accurate and pretty good vs armor.

Hornet I-X
Wt 0.85-.45
Dmg 53.7-67.2, 3rd burst (161-201dmg)
Clip 24
Cap 168-216
Burst dps 597-747
MC RC dps 505-632

If this was before ME3 came out and you were an ME2 vet, if I blanked the names and showed this list of stats you would probably assume this is the ME3 Shuriken... This gun has decent accuracy, some instability, but importantly it has ok base damage so at least it doesn't do minimum damage to armor if upgraded a bit, but piercing or weakening is still useful.  In all honesty I think this is one of the better balanced weapons, even if it is sort of cheesey with IEB (that's the power's fault though).  However, I think this feel should have remained reserved for Shuriken and they could have made a more Argus like SMG w/ a fast, powerful burst and some more fire delay.  But they didn't.

Hurricane I-X
Wt 0.85-0.45
Dmg 102.5-128.1, automatic (2 ammo consumed per shot)
Clip 40 (ie 20 shots)
Cap 280-360
Burst dps 1025-1281
MC RC dps 724-905

These stats are absurd.  What really makes the weapon is the set of mods available... stack capacity and get some armor weakening/piercing.  Or HVB + Heatsink (very powerful mod). Note though that even with -50 armor reduction this gun would be better than basically most SMG's even if they have piercing.  It has poor accuracy (1.6-3.6) and stability, which is a bigger handicap in SP than MP, but not insurmountable.  Needs the damage per shot toned down and encumbrance to move up.

If you are thinking "hey not a vanilla game gun," it is on everyone's game disk and as such is accessible to anyone that wants to mod even very slightly (w/ save editor).

Modifié par capn233, 30 juillet 2013 - 02:11 .

[RedCaesar97]

For the Shuriken, greatly reducing or outright removing the refire delay -- which I believe you did -- is a good start. That should allow you to pulse it like you could in ME2, which will increase its damage per second (DPS). That probably moves the gun into Hornet territory though. But then again -- like you point out -- the Hornet is the ME2 Shuriken.


Trying to account for IEB (Incendiary Ammo with Explosive Burst evolution) on any rapid-fire gun is a non-starter. Like you point out, that is a problem with the power itself. With some exceptions, I think each weapon should be relatively balanced around each weapon in its own category. For example, each SMG balanced around the other SMGs, and each sniper rifle balanced around the other sniper rifles. Powers and passives can/will improve weapon performance, but theoretically should not skew the balance a whole lot (although IEB does do that).

[Abraham_uk]

I am no expert here. But I tell you what, I'll give this thread a bump.

[capn233]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

For the Shuriken, greatly reducing or outright removing the refire delay -- which I believe you did -- is a good start. That should allow you to pulse it like you could in ME2, which will increase its damage per second (DPS). That probably moves the gun into Hornet territory though. But then again -- like you point out -- the Hornet is the ME2 Shuriken.

I actually tested the Shuriken with those stats back when I was fooling around with Spectre... it does feel a lot more like ME2 version... it can fire near constantly.  Yes it sort of overlaps with Hornet that way, unfortunately, although it really only works decently against mooks, whereas Hornet does ok vs armor.  If this was the actual sequal to ME2, the Hornet's description would say "Upgrades the Shuriken SMG."

Trying to account for IEB (Incendiary Ammo with Explosive Burst evolution) on any rapid-fire gun is a non-starter. Like you point out, that is a problem with the power itself. With some exceptions, I think each weapon should be relatively balanced around each weapon in its own category. For example, each SMG balanced around the other SMGs, and each sniper rifle balanced around the other sniper rifles. Powers and passives can/will improve weapon performance, but theoretically should not skew the balance a whole lot (although IEB does do that).

Yeah that is what I think as well... and then simplify it somewhat by grouping weapon categories around similar encumbrance values, which is what Kronner did in Spectre, and what sort of makes sense anyway.

[Athenau]

I'm relatively happy with the weapon balance right now, so I wouldn't want to deviate too far from what's already there. Obviously it's not ideal to use the MP balancing because there's the concept of rarity which has no analogue in SP. But the current weapon balance still does a pretty good job of creating a diverse weapon pool to choose from.

There are three big eyesores that I would fix if given the chance:

1. The Viper. It's a travesty what they did to this gun. Bring back the awesome ME2 viper to replace this big bag of garbage. An easy fix would be to up the ROF to 120 rpm or so.

2. The Revenant. Ditto. The damage isn't terrible with the MP buffs, but it's so terribly inaccurate that I don't see the point. I like your suggestion of giving it the Hurricane's stats--after all it really was an overgrown SMG in ME2. Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, give it the Typhoon's weight, keep the current damage, but up the accuracy to make it a true LMG (give it a modest spread, but make it degrade only slightly while firing)

3. SMG's. These are, with a couple of exceptions, all terrible. But I see you've already started on them above.

Modifié par Athenau, 26 juillet 2013 - 09:44 .

[SaturnRing]

capn233 wrote...

Experimental changes:

Shuriken

If you are feeling nostalgic, you can make a couple changes to the Shuriken to bring back ME2 feel:

Rate of Fire 700
Min refire 0.1
Mag 24
Max Aim Error 4
Max Zoom Aim Error 1.2
Recoil 0.75
Zoom Recoil 1.5
Rounds per burst 3

Which makes it an interesting CQB weapon... although it may still need some tweaks to either base damage or HSmult.

Your numbers suggest go optic or instinctive.
- good reaction time/situational awareness going for instinctive.
Even at 800 rpm, still on target if in cqb/cqc.
I wouldn't mind it semi auto  - even with a 4 Max Aim Error.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 26 juillet 2013 - 09:56 .

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

1. The Viper. It's a travesty what they did to this gun. Bring back the awesome ME2 viper to replace this big bag of garbage. An easy fix would be to up the ROF to 120 rpm or so.

2. The Revenant. Ditto. The damage isn't terrible with the MP buffs, but it's so terribly inaccurate that I don't see the point. I like your suggestion of giving it the Hurricane's stats--after all it really was an overgrown SMG in ME2. Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, give it the Typhoon's weight, keep the current damage, but up the accuracy to make it a true LMG (give it a modest spread, but make it degrade only slightly while firing)

What a coincidence... modifying both of these is why I started looking into this originally.  And I have a real fix for Viper that will make it handle pretty similarly to ME2 w/o being a Valiant clone or Raptor knock off.

Revenant is in a weird spot.  I think the most you can push damage is 20%... which would end up around 95 at max.  Even then that is a little higher than it probably should be.  Will need to finalize weight.  As for accuracy, it will get reduced min aim error and modified bloom (already screwed around with it a bit) so that short bursts are relatively accurate (this was the biggest difference between ME2 and ME3 Revi, IMO).

3. SMG's. These are, with a couple of exceptions, all terrible. But I see you've already started on them above.

Yes mainly because it is basicaly the smallest group.  Issues with the SMG's stem mainly from lack of defense multipliers... without them they are basically AR clones so it is tough to differentiate them.  You can however make them decent in damage v shields and mooks and weaker v armor by pushing up ROF and pushing down damage per shot... except that IEB will instantly turn them competitive against armor (would be fixed in a comprehensive mod).

I will either go to another vanilla group, or nerf the Punisher next.

Currently I have it formatted as a "mod" that is compatible with femshep's mod manager.  So it is easy to inject and revert.  Requires Warranty Voider's mem patcher since it modifies "Patch 2."

Modifié par capn233, 26 juillet 2013 - 10:21 .

[RedCaesar97]

The hardest to try to balance properly would probably be the Widow and Javelin. You would have to reduce shield gate to make them more effective on all classes. Ideally, I think shieldgate should remain at 100%, but Widow and Javelin gain a natural shieldgate bypass, but I assume that would be impossible by just coalesced edits, and would require extensive code rewrites in other files.

The biggest problem with those two guns is that they are completely punished by 100% shieldgate (obviously). Reducing shieldgate too much so the Widow can one-shot makes the Javelin pointless, while reducing the shieldgate too little so only the Javelin can one-shot makes the Widow still useless.

Perhaps this needs some outside-the-box thinking: Make them deal the same damage, but tweak some other values. Javelin already has a built-in thermal scope, so maybe remove its cover penetration? Or would that make the thermal scope pointless since you cannot shoot through walls without mods? Or maybe would that give you incentive to use those mods?

[Athenau]

I don't think you need to make the Widow/Javelin attractive to all classes. A heavy, single shot sniper rifle is really only interesting to the soldier and infiltrator, and you can fiddle with the damage #'s so that they hit different breakpoints. For example with the Javelin at 1600 damage and the Widow at 1350 you have the following scenarios:

Sniper spec infiltrator w. fortification: Can one shot most shielded enemies except pyros and phantoms with javelin. Can one shot some shielded enemies with Widow.

Soldier w. fortification: Can one some shielded enemies with the Javelin. Cannot one shot shielded enemies with the Widow (exception: rocket trooper).

Single-shot snipers would still be an infiltrator's playground (as they should be IMO), but you could make the Javelin work with a soldier, and there would be a noticeable difference in power between the two even in the hands of an infiltrator.

[Abraham_uk]

Just a little thing to take into account.

With the Widow, you press the fire button and it fires.
With the Javelin there is a delay.

Along with the damage and shield gate stats, shouldn't the delay feature in the equation.
Because ultimately what you're talking about is Damage Per Second.

A delay is going to work against a weapon when it comes to Damage Per Second.

[Athenau]

The biggest problem with the delay is that it makes aiming the Javelin harder. That's why it has higher damage and extra perks like a fancy scope and more cover penetration.

DPS is pretty similar between the too, but dps isn't the reason you take a single-shot sniper. Burst damage against is. Ideally the Widow/Javelin should let you pick off infantry quickly from long range with minimum exposure to yourself. Against bosses (where dps matters), they'll kill reasonably fast (but not the fastest), but again, with minimal exposure, since you only have to fire once every couple of seconds to get that dps.

[RedCaesar97]

[quote]Athenau wrote...
I don't think you need to make the Widow/Javelin attractive to all classes. A heavy, single shot sniper rifle is really only interesting to the soldier and infiltrator, and you can fiddle with the damage #'s so that they hit different breakpoints.
[/quote]
While I agree that a heavy single-shot sniper rifle is attractive to only Soldiers or Infiltrators, I do not think that you should necessarily exclude them from other classes.

To me, the Infiltrator has natural time dilation in passive and specific bonuses to sniper rifles, while the Soldier has a time dilation power (Adrenaline Rush) and bonuses to all weapons in passive. Both have Disruptor Ammo for shields and barriers, and the Soldier also has Incendiary Ammo for armor.


But just because they have powers and bonuses for snipers should not mean that I cannot use them on an Adept or Sentinel should I choose to do so. 


[quote]
... you can fiddle with the damage #'s so that they hit different breakpoints. For example with the Javelin at 1600 damage and the Widow at 1350 you have the following scenarios:

Sniper spec infiltrator w. fortification: Can one shot most shielded enemies except pyros and phantoms with javelin. Can one shot some shielded enemies with Widow.

Soldier w. fortification: Can one some shielded enemies with the Javelin. Cannot one shot shielded enemies with the Widow (exception: rocket trooper). [/quote]
I think this is a bad scenario, and it assumes that you should only be able to use these weapons if you use a specific setup. This also assumes you have a weapon at level X, which is a bad assumption (and a bad design decision by the developers).

I would like to give some leeway in this area. 

[/quote]
Single-shot snipers would still be an infiltrator's playground (as they should be IMO), but you could make the Javelin work with a soldier, and there would be a noticeable difference in power between the two even in the hands of an infiltrator.[/quote]

I do not think that the single-shot sniper rifles should be the sole domain of the Infiltrator, as I think Soldier should be able to compete but with differences. As I stated before, Infiltrator has natural time dilation, while the Soldier has to use a power. I am purposely leaving the Sniper Rifle Concentration Mod out of this equation.

The Infiltrator's damage bonuses from Cloak and passive already make it better for single-shot damage over the Soldier.

The Soldier does have the instant-reload feature, although personally I think that should be removed, but obviously not possible with coalesced edits.

I should also point out that you acquire the Widow much later in the game than the Javelin, and I think there should be some tangible difference between the two other than just "one does more damage." Javelin does have a fire delay, but is it really that hard to use? (I only ask since I have not used it ever; no point if I cannot get it to X on a single playthrough and only the Infiltrator can use it and only with a specific setup.) This is why I am trying to come up with alternative solutions to differentiate the Widow and Javelin while making them both useful on all classes.

[capn233]

Well as far as a discussion about Widow and Javelin goes...

Javelin is harder to use, the exact amount that it is harder can be debated forever. The only other comment I will make on that is that I imagine it is relatively easier to use on PC w/ mouse then trying to use w/ thumbsticks, at least on deflection shots.

As far as balancing them relative to each other SP has something of a "reverse" to MP: in MP the Widow was Rare so more likely to be acquired early, whereas in SP the Javelin is acquired first in new games. Apparently in development they thought the extra penetration and thermal scope more than offset the fire delay on Javelin, so it was weaker and acquired earlier (at least this is my assumption).

I played Javelin GI in MP while there was 100% shieldgate and with reload canceling it still could blow through mid-tier protecteds, it just took 2 bodyshots. In SP reload canceling is more irritating (medigel can glitch and burn them, grenades have to be empty...) which is why in Spectre reload speeds were reduced globally. I don't have any position on that currently, but it is something to think about.

As far as being attractive on other classes, they are both anti-materiel rifles with high encumbrance, so they shouldn't be attractive on classes with low weight capacity anyway (adept, engineer). But, tech classes have shield strip powers available, and all classes have squaddies with shield strip powers so I do not think we should concern ourselves with allowing all classes OSOK capability with these weapons. Hence I do not think they should be buffed substantially, nor do I think shieldgate should be manipulated.

As far as infiltrator goes, if I start manipulating powers, TacCloak is one of the first ones that will get nerfed since it is just silly. The damage in SP is too high, the cooldown (w/ min) is too low, the sniper rifle dynamic bonus is huge, etc. Disruptor Ammo can be buffed to somewhat make up the difference. I will agree that in general Infiltrator should have an edge with SR's compared to Soldier (it has been that way going back to ME1), but ARush instant reload will narrow the gap, and you have other options available like Black Widow or Valiant that work well with ARush.

Red: regarding the Widow in SP, now you know why it was in the modded Spectre Requisitions.


^^That's from right after Mars, for anyone that is curious.

Modifié par capn233, 27 juillet 2013 - 01:02 .

[capn233]

The next smallest class is the OPistol class. Unfortunately they are a mess because some have weights higher than AR's (?), some are in oddball places stat wise, MP changes to a couple have made them sniper rifles in disguise, and some are just probably overpowered.  Place your bets for which category each are in...

Predator
Wt 0.5-0.2
Dmg 58.8-73.5 semiauto
Clip 15
Cap 90-112
Burst dps 490-612
MC RC dps 403-503

I think this isn't too bad honestly.  The issue is to get the stat numbers you have to click like a madman.  It is a basic, light weapon that can be ok against armor with the correct upgrades.

Phalanx
Wt 0.6-0.25
Dmg 114.8-143.5 semiauto
Clip 12
Cap 72-90
Burst dps 478-598
MC RC dps 370-463

This is the start of a trend towards more damage per shot, but worse paper DPS than the Predator.  Unfortunately Phalanx is the biggest loser since it is in a no man's land between good paper DPS and good single shot damage.  In a way this is more ME2 Carnifex than ME2 Phalanx, but nevermid that.  It is acquired earlier than Carnifex, but several missions later than you can get Paladin.  Personally I am sort of at a loss of what to do with it... the main issue being that most of the pistols function similarly anyway so if you manipulate one with just higer stats, you end up making it a copy of another one.  There is the good old headshot modifier, which could be induced to make this a better mook gun than Carni/Paladin.

Arc Pistol
Wt 1.1-0.6
Dmg 77.2-96.5, charge mechanic (694.8-868.5 max - ie base x9)
Clip 18
Cap 72-90
Burst dps 708-884
MC RC dps 496-620

I think this weapon is overpowered.  To be honest I would have to mess with math to figure out what is the best way to charge to get the higest burst, but in reality the best way to fire it is full 1s charge each time for burst dps of 867... this has the highest ammo efficiency and will one-shot a variety of units.  This is a prime example of a weapon with odd mechanics that was underused and therefore got MP buffs, despite being pretty good with a "Thor multiplier" of just 2.  I find it a bit trickier to use than some weapons (bc it is harder for me to precision aim holding left mouse), but once you get it...  Heavy Barrel and Extended map w/ weaking or piercing can "one-clip" any target, although it will take a while to fire the clip of 32.

Carnifex
Wt 1.2-0.7
Dmg 276.1-345.1 semiauto
Clip 6
Cap 30-40
Burst dps 460-575
MC RC dps 495-620

I can't remember the last time I used this in SP, and the only reason to use it in MP is the challenge points.  It is outclassed by the buffed Arc Pistol and Paladin, and also the Talon.  Granted that's tough competition.

This is supposed to follow the "magnum" archetype from any shooter ever made.  The biggest problem is that you get it after Citadel Coup at which point you could have used the Paladin for an entire story arc.

Paladin
Wt 1.0-0.7
Dmg 424.9-531.1
Clip 3
Cap 21-33
Burst dps 708-885
MC RC dps 483-604

Basically you can get this before any other pistol outside the Predator.  I really think turning it into a mini-Black Widow was the wrong move to make it different than the Carnifex, but that is what they did to it.  It has a narrower weight range due to UR status in MP.  Fortunately Black Widow got a major buff subsequently, but Paladin is still a force.

I think 3 shot capacity is goofy on a pistol.  In SP it is worthwhile to throw on capacity mod to get 5.  Pretty good weapon with Marksman...

Scorpion
Wt 1.1-0.6
Dmg 375.2-469 semiauto
Clip 4
Cap 20-30
Burst dps 500-625
MC RC dps 391-488

Really a pocket CC should not do this much damage.  Especially considering that SP is basically mainly mook tier enemies that can all get stagger locked hard by this weapon if used correctly.  Also available relatively early (Sur'Kesh), the only pistols available earlier are Predator and Paladin.

Talon
Wt 0.9-0.6
Dmg 93.7-117.1, semiauto pellet based (562-703 max per shot)
Clip 4
Cap 24-36
Burst dps 703-878
MC RC dps 557-696
1.5x innate shield / barrier multiplier*

This gun is overpowered.  Especially on classes that can cheese CQB (Vanguard, Sentinel), damage (Soldier, Infiltrator), or need protection stripping damage with fast cooldowns (Adept, Engineer).  So everyone basically.
***

The big trick is making the pistol class relevant, differentiating them from each other, while not watering them down so far as to become irrelevant.

History lesson:  In ME1 you got best weapon dps via Marksman, and interestingly enough every class could spec into it in some form or another.  In ME2, pistols mainly were good for armor stripping, while being somewhat average against mooks.

One way you could move them relative to SMG's into anti-armor, mediocre v mook is raising base damage and lowering HS multiplier.  That would of course have the side effect of making them "easier" to use than SMG's vs mooks, and you could argue that punishes "skill," or at least does not reward.

Personally I think the feel is mainly a mess for this class anyway, so I do not think that modifying some weapons to feel different is necessarily a bad thing as long as in the end they are balanced and each has some sort of niche.

Modifié par capn233, 27 juillet 2013 - 05:01 .

[capn233]

Bonus pistol round... balancing twins the right way.

One of the problems with having a boatload of weapons and then making "Spectre" twins is figuring out how you can make them different from one another, both useful, and not making either too powerful or something that really belongs in another class.  Hence Widow - Black Widow, Eviscerator - Wraith, and Carnifex - Paladin are all strained relationships.

While I don't like Paladin becoming a mini-Black Widow, they did make a weapon that uses basically the same model as the Carnifex while being substantially different and useful:

Suppressor (MP)
Wt 1.2-0.7
Dmg 125.7-157.1 semiauto
Clip 6
Cap 30-40
Burst dps 1257-1571
MC RC dps 524-655
4x headshot multiplier

What is nice about this weapon is that it is ok versus mooks if you don't score headshots, but has a nice reward if you can.  The difference between it and Carnifex though is that if  you use this versus armored targets, your ammo-efficiency goes in the toilet.  I don't think this is a bad thing, and would have probably been the best way to differentiate Paladin from Carnifex before release, especially considering the "description"* of the Paladin.

*Insert qq about not balancing around flavor text here.

[RedCaesar97]

Some interesting thoughts on the pistols. Messing with the damage and headshot multipliers is probably the best way to go about it as you point out. Of course, the real problem was adding some rather unnecessary guns in that category anyway *cough* Talon *cough*.

Like you point out, the Phalanx is in a tough spot. in ME2, it was a DLC weapon that dealt more damage than the Carnifex and held the same number of shots (I think), but if you zoomed in, the targeting became a laser pointer. For some people this made it harder to use, but it was a way to differentiate between the two weapons. Now in ME3 it is stuck in between the Carnifex and Predator. Personally, I like it better than the Predator but only because it deals more damage per shot and I like the sound better. But I still have not used it in months.

To balance the Arc Pistol, you would probably have to lower the base damage, and increase the number of shots consumed when fully charged. What about even increasing the charge damage but having it consume an entire clip when charged? Risk versus reward? Edit: Or would that be a problem when used with Incendiary/Disruptor Ammo?

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 27 juillet 2013 - 06:23 .

[capn233]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

To balance the Arc Pistol, you would probably have to lower the base damage, and increase the number of shots consumed when fully charged. What about even increasing the charge damage but having it consume an entire clip when charged? Risk versus reward?

I would have to look at it, but I don't think you can modify the number of shots vs the charge time.  You can change max charge time, and the "Thor Multiplier," which is the damage multiplier that is applied to the shots.

[capn233]

Added some more experimental values.

Still not sure what route the Phalanx should take. Slightly less "clicky" Predator does not seem very interesting or useful. Really tempted to go ROF 85 as per ME2 and make it anti-armor... would manipulate HSmult perhaps...

Shotguns... was thinking low tier might get higher than average HS multiplier and appropriate encumbrance. Eviscerator may get a buff to make it better v armor. ROF changes not on table for those three. I do not think that Katana or Scimitar gaining extra HS damage will encroach on Graal territory since it is better for stagger really, has enough penetration to go through guardian shields, and does not require Shredder for anti-armor.

[Archer220]

I like where this thread is going. I always wanted to tweak the SP by myself, but I'm not good at balancing.

[capn233]

A version of this is working with all vanilla guns.

The encumbrance values are sort of in ranges. Many were made heavier (if drastic change to weight capacity or PRS is made, these could change).

I can make a copy of this available if anyone wants to mess with it. Otherwise I will just screw around with it and document things in case someone wants to try a stat on their own.

The thing that bothers me the most about doing this is the inability to code in defense multipliers. That would help immensely (especially with low tier shotguns). Since we can't, I tried to get "creative" with the headshot multiplier. While the number looks large, keep in mind that you aren't going to hit all that many pellets on the head except at close range unless you stack a bunch of accuracy bonuses. Tested them on Sanctum and Menae early game...

Mainly trying to get every gun at least somewhat "useful" (sort of like in ME2), and so the "common" guns will perform a good deal better than they used to. Unlike MP there is no real rarity system to consider, only unlock time. However, unlock time can be changed via modification to the stores if necessary. But otherwise I suppose we can argue the merits of using game progression for a rarity substitute.

[capn233]

There's something odd going on... game seems to be using encumbrance from the base coalesced file... something might be going on with patch 2 that isn't right.

[capn233]

Basically any time I modify the patch 2 bin file, it is ignoring anything in it for some reason, even if I get around the DLC check with Warranty Voider's launcher, or even a cracked exe. Posted a couple topics about this in various places, will see if anyone can tell me what is going on with that.

I might have to just add some of the values into the regular coalesced file and do all the modding there.

[capn233]

I'm just going to roll most of the patch02 stuff into the main file and use a modded patch02 file to just make the game ignore the stuff there...

Still wondering if I should bother with a few weapons, namely:

Raptor
-It is basically a Mattock that doesn't take as useful of mods for what it does and has an unscoped penalty. I could leave it as is for a "caster" sniper, or I have thought about emulating the rifle Nemeses use...

Phalanx
-Do you think it should stay as some middling pistol, or would you rather have a dedicated, slow ROF anti-armor gun?

Here are a couple ME2 guns...

Modifié par capn233, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:34 .