84 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

capn233 wrote...
More importantly, it seems like the weight mechanics do not work correctly. Example, Level 60 Sentinel with Lancer and Punisher has 150% PRS indicated on work bench.

Are you using the Normandy work bench?

I find that the Normandy workbench does not always calculate the weight capacity correctly. Sometimes I have to go the armor locker first, then it will display the weight capacity correctly.

[capn233]

I was using the workbench

[capn233]

Ok so some trouble shooting...

For some reason if I modify Omega or Citadel then it causes the weight mods to behave oddly. Not sure why this is exactly. I might start them over from scratch and see if I can get it to work correctly. I had reverted all weapon mod weight values back to original, as far as I could see, but it was still whonky. Weirdly, injecting either DLC screwed up all weight adding mods. Below is just some data showing the issue.

***
***0X Base, GUN01Mod:

Sentinel

Punisher X, Lancer X - PRS+150, Throw 1.45
Punisher X, Lancer X HVB - PRS+100, Throw 1.78
Punisher X, Lancer X, Predator I - PRS+100, Throw 1.78

Punisher X, Valiant I - PRS+25, Throw 2.67
Punisher X, Valiant I Thermal Scope - PRS-25, Throw 4
Punisher X, Valiant I, Predator I - PRS-25, Throw 4

- Cooldowns appear to be "working as intended." Identical PRS values from mod versus another gun result in identical CD

***0X Base, GUN01Mod, Omega

Punisher X, Lancer X - PRS+150, Throw 1.45
Punisher X, Lancer X Thermal - PRS+100, Throw 2.29
Punisher X, Lancer X HVB - PRS+100, Throw 2.29
Punisher X, Lancer X, Predator I - PRS+100, Throw 1.78

Punisher X, Valiant I - PRS+25, Throw 2.67
Punisher X, Valiant I Thermal Scope - PRS-25, Throw 6
Punisher X, Valiant I Thermal HVB - PRS-25, Throw 6
Punisher X, Valiant I, Predator I - PRS-25, Throw 4

-screwed up weapon mod calculations. Applicable to mods from Omega and Citadel (despite running original Citadel DLC)

***0X Base, GUN01Mod, Citadel

Punisher X, Lancer X - PRS+150, Throw 1.45
Punisher X, Lancer X Thermal - PRS+100, Throw 2.29
Punisher X, Lancer X HVB - PRS+100, Throw 2.29
Punisher X, Lancer X, Predator I - PRS+100, Throw 1.78

Punisher X, Valiant I - PRS+25, Throw 2.67
Punisher X, Valiant I Thermal Scope - PRS-25, Throw 6
Punisher X, Valiant I Thermal HVB - PRS-25, Throw 6
Punisher X, Valiant I, Predator I - PRS-25, Throw 4

-Again screwy mods. This time both mod sets result in incorrect cooldowns from both Citadel and Omega (despite the fact that Omega was original)

[capn233]

I was thinking about those numbers today and decided to figure out where the longer CD is coming from.

Level 60 Sentinel
Weight Capacity Bonus 50
Starting Weight 25
Intel Bonus 0
Armor Bonus 0
Punisher X 0.75
Lancer X 0.5


**No Mods

PRS = 2.25 + 0.5 - LancerX - Punisher X = 1.50

Throw Recharge = BaseCD * [1/(1 + RankBonus + DynBonus)]

Throw = 4*(1/(1 +1.5 +0.25)) = 1.45s

**Thermal Scope

PRS = 2.25 + 0.5 - 1.0 - 0.75 = 1.0

2.29 = 4*[1 / (1 + 1.0 + 0.25 +x)]

0.5725 = 1/(2.25+x)

2.25+x = 1/0.5725 -> 2.25+x = 1.75 -> x = -0.5

What a coincidence, the extra penalty happens to be 0.5.

It is interesting that the bar for PRS is reported correctly (50% less than without the mod).  That is why I structured my equation as I did with X after PRS as some sort of dynamic penalty.  I have no idea why there should be such an error.  I will need to review the files.  In the bin files the operator is something called "ExtraWeight" which is set to 0.5 by default.

This still begs the question of why it screws up when you mod the DLC, even if you don't modify that parameter for the mods when you altered the DLC.  It also bugs all weight increasing mods, not just the ones from DLC.

Gun DLC has information for all those "supermods," but they don't seem to be causing a problem.

[RedCaesar97]

Speaking of weapon mods, what about the original weapon mods? Can you change the stats of the original weapon mods? Do you think they are good as they currently stand, or should they be changed?

I am thinking of Shotgun Smart Choke specifically. Right now it provides a +30% to +50% accuracy bonus. I am wondering if that should be decreased to +5% to +25% accuracy bonus.

What about the other weapon mods like the Assault Rifle Stability mod and SMG Stability mod (DLC mod)? Their stability bonuses range from +30% to +70%. Maybe these should be dropped to +30% to +50%? Maybe lower?

[capn233]

It might be possible to change the vanilla ones.

I have no idea about the DLC ones, at least not with bin file edits. Messing with the DLC files was what was glitching the weight on the DLC mods... even if there were no edits whatsoever to them. In fact I have a version of Omega and Citadel with adjustments to Ramparts and Adjutants, and then some shield regen changes and Lancer and Suppressor balance for Citadel but I don't run them because it doubles the weight on all weight adding mods, as above.

I could probably change Smart Choke, but do you really think it needs balanced?

As for stability mods, I don't ever run them. They do grant a lot of stability on something like the Revenant, but you can fight everything except recoil-yaw with the mouse anyway. More importantly, they fill a mod slot so it isn't like it is exactly free.

***

I played through Citadel last night as an Engineer w/ Saber V.  I am considering nerfing him some, but I don't really know if I will or not.  The game is still more than maneageable at high level, it is just that if you do something boneheaded usually you get punished.  This was without any actual Citadel changes, just the base game changes to coalesced.

The other day I did Omega, which was actually a bit more challenging in a couple sections as well, mainly due to the increase of max aggressive units (specifically the bomb defusal section).  That was with Soldier.

Modifié par capn233, 10 août 2013 - 03:45 .

[RedCaesar97]

capn233 wrote...
I could probably change Smart Choke, but do you really think it needs balanced?

Specifically with Smart Choke V, you can really start to deal some good damage even at "long" range with some of the shotguns, particularly with the Claymore and probably the Wraith.

Another issue is when you combine the smart choke with Marksman to essentially get 100% accuracy with a shotgun. Now to be fair, for the most part only infiltrators and Soldiers would be using Marksman, unless you playing some truly weird build.

So maybe Marksman can be looked at instead, although if you decrease the accuracy of Marksman, it becomes much less useful to use. Which is why I would rather touch the Smart Choke Mod instead.

[capn233]

But that is more or less a straight nerf to shotguns, and there are only 3 that are great in this mod with SC anyway: Wraith, Claymore and Eviscerator (it doesn't suck now). Nerfing SC would sort of be a nerf to the Evi twins, but mainly it would be a nerf to Claymore, Scimitar, Katana and Raider.

You can add Piranha I suppose, if you have that DLC. However, it is heavier in the mod.

The latest SC mod is at Geth Dreadnought (assuming you do Turian Platoon in Tuchanka arc), which isn't too late, but is after 2/3 of the game potentially.

I agree that Marksman's interaction with shotguns is a problem, but I felt that it was somewhat outside the scope of this mod, since if I had carte blanche and the ability to change anything I would simply make accuracy bonuses outside of SC not apply to shotguns. Also break Marksman under TacCloak... (incidentally, the later is why I decided against changing Marksman's cooldown, which would make more sense near 10 or 12s base, except that the main use in SP would be on an infiltrator anyway so it wouldn't matter how long I make it).

I wouldn't say an accuracy nerf for Marksman is completely off the table though. Nerfing base accuracy would actually make the Rank 4 choice more meaningful for more weapons.

[capn233]

Marksman
-Base Accuracy Bonus 15% (30)
-Rank 4 Accuracy Evolution 10% (30)
-Rank 6 Accuracy and ROF Evolution 15% (20)

Probably won't make too much of a difference with shotguns, or really most weapons honestly. You won't quite get laser shotgun performance though.

Technically if you took all accuracy in SP before you were losing some performance on Shotguns anyway though...

Also reduced radius on Sabotage slightly. Base 2m with Rank 3 up to 50% so max is 3m instead of 3.25 as before. Left hacked robots alone.

Still toying with switching FE's to death only.

Oh and I want some opinions on time dilation for Adrenaline Rush. Honestly I don't consider changing the dilation much of a nerf or buff either way. It has less than in base game currently, but I am open to reverting it. Or I could remove it completely, even though that kills the one "cool" thing about Soldier.

[RA RA XD]

My opinion: Switch FEs to death only, and TBs if you haven't already.

Could you add a stability bonus to Adrenalin Rush ? Or would that require some augmentations to the game code ?

[capn233]

I don't know how to add stability to Adrenaline Rush.

[capn233]

Some oddities.

I had assumed that altering Patch02 was causing it to be ignored, but this apparently is not completely the case. The weapon changes in there do seem to be ignored, but the changes to power combos are not entirely...

I was testing switching the variable "bonlyondeath" for Fire Explosions. It turns out that if either the main coalesced or the Patch02 bin file have it set to false, then it will still detonate all the time.

It would be nice if I could find an actual explanation of how the game handles all these conflicting bin files.  There are references in some places that gibbed's compiling code has errors and that is where these bugs come from, but I have no idea if that is true or if the game just manages all these scripts in some unexpected way.

edit: removing the combo section from the Patch02 bin seems to cause the game to look somewhere else for the bonlyondeath... I had it set to true in coalesced, but it was still detonating, despite the fact that I removed the combo section from Patch02's bin...

Modifié par capn233, 11 août 2013 - 08:06 .

[capn233]

OK so I changed FE's to on death only. Reduced damage of tech bursts slightly.

I think Soldier is still fine, mainly because guns are better. 3 Amp CS w/ incendiary will kill a Rampart w/ some overkill (as long as they don't block one). Plus it really isn't too hard to get FE's on basics, you just have to time it right. But you aren't chaining FE's on armor over and over, which I think makes it a bit more balanced overall.

The thing that is still getting me a bit is Engineer, and the relationship between him and Infiltrator.

Currently I have Engineer passive setup so it is possible to get 90% power damage bonus if you take the right evolutions. This is 20% higher than in the base game. The reason for this was actually to allow Engineer to trump Infiltrator in possible power damage.

Infiltrator is currently like this:
Cloak base damage 35%, Rank 4 Damage 25% - total 60% possible
Op Mastery: Rank 6 Power Damage and Duration 15% (from 25), and there is 10% at Rank 4
Total bonus is potentially 85% under cloak, although you give up SR damage in passive to get that. Otherwise it is 70% under cloak w/ SR Damage at rank 6 passive.

I added in an extra 5% weapon damage in Op Mastery to help balance out the reductions I have been making to cloak. But I don't want to nerf down cloak much more or it will give a worse general weapon bonus than ARush... On the other hand, playing Engineer this weekend I wonder if he has too much power damage bonus now. Granted, playing Level 60 and with Saber V and AP as bonus.

Of course I could always push more weapon damage out of cloak and into infiltrator passive. I am somewhat leery of that because it may get away from the whole alpha strike or backstab type high burst that seems like this kind of character should have.  I really wish that the cloak damage numbers for power and weapons were separate.

Would like some opinions.

Modifié par capn233, 12 août 2013 - 05:46 .

[RedCaesar97]

@capn233:

In terms of power damage, the difference between Engineer and Infiltrator has always been Tactical Cloak and -- inmy opinion -- its poor/insane design.

By default, the Engineer can get up to +70% power damage from its passive, while the Infiltrator can get +90% from Damage Cloak. The Infiltrator can get another +35% from passive, which is +5% more than you can get from the updated Fortification. That leaves +25% power damage that the Engineer can only make up by taking Melee Mastery at rank 6 in Fitness which gives a +25% power damage bonus for limited time after killing with a heavy melee.

Like you, they probably should have separated Power Damage from Weapon Damage in Cloak, but they did not and now we are stuck with it.

I do not have as much time as I originally thought, otherwise I would have provided my thoughts and suggestions for changes in this post. I will play around with some numbers later today and see what I can come up with.

[capn233]

edited

Turns out coalesced values for "shield damage" for Disruptor ammo are only used by the gui... the shield damage is using a multiplier of 4x from base (health) damage.  Should have known that...

Modifié par capn233, 13 août 2013 - 03:48 .

[capn233]

Ok v0.32 is out. There are some changes and I think this is closer to how it probably should be.

While playing with DA, the main thing I didn't like was that in the 100% shieldgate regime, once you got enough ammo damage to one-shot a unit, it meant that the gun was doing enough damage that it would kill mooks with a body shot (since ammo damage is not dependent on hit, and it required high base damage weapons).

So gave in and dropped shieldgate to 0.85. I could have pulled any number out of the air, but this is where it comes from:

Widow X (1246.3) headshot, Cloak (+60), Kuwashii (+10 HS, 5 WD), HK set (+50WD)

=[(1246.3*1.55)(1+0.55+0.1+0.1+0.6+0.25)(2.5)] = 12556.4725

Ammo damage = 1622.68

vs Level 60 Centurion 1860 S / 1687.5 H

Ammo applied, 1860 - 1622.68 = 237.32

-> Weapon damage applied, 0 shields -> 12319.15 weapon damage remaining

--> 85% shieldgate: 1847.8725 dmg left

---> Centurion killed

[capn233]

A couple other things...

I managed to mod the bin files for the story DLC such that it didn't glitch the weapon weight adding mods... but unfortunately it seemed like those edits resulted in the game ignoring other changes in that file (for example, Lancer and Suppressor stat changes). So I more or less have abandoned story DLC modding unless some new info comes out, or if there is a demand for tweaks to DLC specific enemies where you don't care that mods will add double weight essentially.

Also, feedback is appreciated... does not even have to be ultra specific. I am somewhat interested in the "difficulty" relative to the base game and fairness....

1.  Is this mod harder than the base game?
2.  Is the game more fair than the base game?
3.  Should the mod push the difficulty further?  Keep in mind that number of units in the encounters aren't going to be changed.
4.  Are there any character, power, weapon setups that are too powerful?  Any that are too weak?
5.  Do you think that cooldowns are overall too long, too short, or about right in this mod?

Modifié par capn233, 13 août 2013 - 07:41 .

[Archer220]

1. Yep.
2. No doubt.
3. As long it doesn't conflict with question #2, why not?!
4. Haven't played too much yet, but so far, so good.
5. About right, IMO.

Modifié par Archer700, 14 août 2013 - 12:48 .

[RedCaesar97]

To bring the disussion back to Infiltrator, Engineer, and Soldier power damage and weapon damage, here are the base game relevent values:

Base game relevant values for Infiltrator:
Tactical Cloak rank 1 damage bonus: +50%
Tactical Cloak rank 4b damage bonus: +40% (for up to +90% total damage bonus from cloak)
Operational Mastery rank 1 weapon damage bonus: +2.5%
Operational Mastery rank 3 weapon damage bonus: +2.5% (+5% total in passive)
Operational Mastery rank 4b weapon damage bonus: +5% (for up to +10% total in passive)
Operational Mastery rank 4b power damage bonus: +10%
Operational Mastery rank 6a sniper rifle damage bonus: +15%
Operational Mastery rank 6b power damage bonus: +25% (for up to +35% total in passive)

Base game relevant values for Engineer:
Tech Mastery rank 1 power damage bonus: +10%
Tech Mastery rank 3 power damage bonus: +10% (+25% total in passive)
Tech Mastery rank 4a power damage bonus: +15% (for up to +35% total in passive)
Tech Mastery rank 5b power damage bonus: +10% (for up to +45% total in passive)
Tech Mastery rank 6b power damage bonus: +25% (for up to +70% total in passive)

Base game relevant values for Soldier:
Adrenaline Rush rank 1 weapon damage bonus: +50%
Adrenaline Rush rank 4b weapon damage bonus: +25%
Combat Mastery rank 1 weapon damage bonus: +5%
Combat Mastery rank 2 weapon damage bonus: +5% (+10% total in passive)
Combat Mastery rank 4a weapon damage bonus: +5% (for up to +15% total in passive)
Combat Mastery rank 6a weapon damage bonus: +10% (for up to +25% total in passive)


So I am thinking that because of how Tactical Cloak is designed, it is difficult to balance the power damage and weapon damage against the Soldier and Engineer properly. But what we can do is at least try to make them equal, then we can tweak the values a little further. 

Here is what I propose for the Infiltrator:

•  Change Tactical Cloak rank 1 damage bonus from +50% to +25%
•  Change Tactical Cloak rank 4b damage bonus from +40% to +25% (for +50% total)
•  Change Tactical Cloak rank 6b power damage bonus from +25% to +15% (for +25% total in passive)

This will give the Infiltrator up to 60% general weapon damage from Cloak and passive, and up to +75% power damage from cloak and passive. Can always tweak the sniper damage bonus from Tactical Cloak rank 6b.

Here is what I propose for the Engineer:

•  Change Tech Mastery rank 5b power damage bonus from +10% to +15%.

This will give the Engineer up to +75% power damage bonus to match the Infiltrator's potential power damage. Should change the Adept's rank 5b to match.

Here is what I propose for the Soldier:

•  Change Adrenaline Rush rank 1 weapon damage bonus from +50% to +25%

This change will mirror the proposed damage changes to Cloak so the weapon damage is consistent with the two powers. Soldier still has greater damage potential with all non-sniper rifles with Combat Mastery weapon damage and ammo power damage.



With the above changes, Soldier can have slightly more non-sniper rifle damage than Infiltrator. Infiltrator will have potentially the same power damage as Engineer. I do not see much way around that without giving the Engineer some wicked power damage increases. Not sure how much power damage it actually would need -- if it needs it at all -- in your mod without testing it myself. 

I might get criticised for the proposed damage nerfs in Adrenaline Rush and/or Cloak, but I have never been a big fan of those damage buffs to begin with.

Adrenaline Rush may need some small time dilation tweaks to compensate. I am thinking +25% at rank 1 (down from +30%) and +25% at rank 4b (up from +15%). I believe you already changed the damage reduction value at rank 4a.

Adrenaline Rush rank 3 duration should be decreased from +30% to +25%, because 30% of the base 4 second duration is stupid; +25% will increase duration by an even 1 second. Likewise, I think Rank 5a duration should also be changed from +40% to +50%.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 14 août 2013 - 02:18 .

[capn233]

Thanks for the input.  I think it might be worth posting the current values in 0.32 for comparison...

Tactical Cloak
Rank 1 35% Damage
Rank 4 25% Damage (Total general damage 60%)

Operational Mastery
Rank 1 Weapon Damage 5% (+2.5)
Rank 3 Weapon Damage 5% (+2.5)
Rank 4 Weapon Damage 5% (15% possible), Power Damage 5% (-5%)
Rank 6 Power Damage and Duration 15% (-10%, max possible is now 80% power damage)

In the end I think we came up with solutions that would be somewhat similar for the Infiltrator.  However, a couple of reasons why I did the above.

For cloak, I think the damage needs to be weighted slightly more in Rank 1.  In essence this is to somewhat reduce the worth of rank 4 damage, or increase the relative worth of rank 4 duration (point of view).  This is because I want to avoid cutting base duration simply to try and create a false choice between "damage and utility."

As for splits between passive and cloak, infiltrator had sort of a mediocre passive beforehand.  I left more general damage in cloak mainly in consideration of automatic weapons.  I don't want to shift too much weapon damage into passive and make autos better all the time.  I wanted to keep the alpha strike sort of feel.

Rank 4 Power Damage nerf actually is there to slightly reduce ammo power while also limiting total power damage.

Tech Mastery
Rank 1 10%
Rank 3  20% (+10)
Rank 4 Power Damage 20% (+5)
Rank 5 Power Damage 10%
Rank 6 Power Damage 25% (Max is now 85%)
Rank 6 Drone Damage 100%

Basically I had buffed this to 90%, and backed it off slightly.  I took 5 I had added at Rank 5 out (since that choice with Weight Capacity is attractive already).

Now we need to quibble over infiltrator vs Engineer a bit.  Personally I think Engineer should trump Infiltrator in possible power damage predominantly because you aren't getting the weapon damage bonuses.  Granted, you can actually cast slightly faster than cloak min CD with the right weapons, and you have a little better CC, but you should have the edge in power damage.  Also I think he needs more power damage bonus than Adept since they have BE's, while Engineer is a little more direct damage (especially since I reduced TB damage a bit and reverted FE's to death only).

Assuming I can convince you of that last statement, the hard part is determining the absolute power of the classes.  You might be able to convince me that I should scale down total possible power damage on Engineer, but that is going to leave me in a bit of a quandry with Infiltrator and his damage bonuses.  There isn't much left in passive, so I would need to manipulate cloak.  I might consider altering its cooldown more.  The damage though...

Adrenaline Rush
Rank 1 Damage 50%
Rank 4 Damage 25% (75% possible)
Rank 4 Hardening 40%DR (+15)
Rank 6 Shield 100 (50)

Combat Mastery
Rank 6 Weight Capacity 75 (50)

As it turns out, Combat Mastery is actually better than Operational Mastery in most ways.  25% weapon damage, +10% power damage (for ammo), and Weapon Master's 40% Ammo bonus.

I have to say I am somewhat resistant to dropping weapon damage on the Soldier.  That is basically the only thing he has to deal with the hardened targets since I took away chained FE's from CS.  Granted, Amped CS will do ok damage to armor, but it isn't Cloaked Incinerate w/ TV.

The other thing is the cooldowns on ARush vs weight capacity.  Soldier can get a 50% weight capacity bonus fairly easily in CM, but the big bonus that actually is worth anything was stupidly opposed to Weapon Master.  This just wasn't a great design idea, especially when everyone else got weight capacity at rank 5 vs squad bonuses.  If I could redo it, I would move it there, then split weapon master into "Commando" which would be ammo damage +/- headshot bonus, and "Shock Trooper" which would be weapon damage.

And add to that I think that for "most" soldier builds people will be taking Hardening over the extra dilation and damage.  Maybe I am wrong.  On sniper builds you can go Damage, but you are way behind infiltrator in damage because of his dynamic bonuses to SR's.

I reverted time dilation to original mainly because I was feeling nostalgic.  I alternate between liking and hating it and I am not sure changes to it really count as buffs or nerfs.

Duration you might be able to convince me.  Although shortening duration in some ways is a buff to AR if you get it to Rank 6.

I wanted opinions on absolute power though, so I am glad to get a detailed response.

Modifié par capn233, 14 août 2013 - 03:38 .

[RedCaesar97]

I think we can agree that Tactical Cloak's design really throws any potential balance out of whack.

capn233 wrote...
1) 
Now we need to quibble over infiltrator vs Engineer a bit.  Personally I think Engineer should trump Infiltrator in possible power damage predominantly because you aren't getting the weapon damage bonuses.  Granted, you can actually cast slightly faster than cloak min CD with the right weapons, and you have a little better CC, but you should have the edge in power damage.  Also I think he needs more power damage bonus than Adept since they have BE's, while Engineer is a little more direct damage (especially since I reduced TB damage a bit and reverted FE's to death only).

Assuming I can convince you of that last statement, the hard part is determining the absolute power of the classes.  You might be able to convince me that I should scale down total possible power damage on Engineer, but that is going to leave me in a bit of a quandry with Infiltrator and his damage bonuses.  There isn't much left in passive, so I would need to manipulate cloak.  I might consider altering its cooldown more.  The damage though...
....

2)
And add to that I think that for "most" soldier builds people will be taking Hardening over the extra dilation and damage.  Maybe I am wrong.  On sniper builds you can go Damage, but you are way behind infiltrator in damage because of his dynamic bonuses to SR's.
...

3)
Duration you might be able to convince me.  Although shortening duration in some ways is a buff to AR if you get it to Rank 6.

1) Again, this is an issue of Tactical Cloak being poorly designed. In the base game, the Engineer can have a potential +70% power damage from Tech Mastery versus the Infiltrator potentially gaining only +35% power damage from Operational Mastery. It is Tactical Cloak that throws all that crap out the window.

Even then, the Infiltrator lags behind the Engineer with shield damage on super elite enemies, since the Engineer has Overload, but the Infiltrator can make that up slightly with weapons+Disruptor Ammo.

Giving the Engineer more power damage is fine, but the question is: how much more? Without trying your mod, I have no idea if your proposed +85% is sufficient. 

At least in the base game, there is no choice between Damage and Duration at rank 4 of Cloak. Even if you were to change the duration values to match multiplayer, it still would not significantly change that choice, if at all.

All my proposed values are also based on the enemy health in the base game, which you increased in your mod, so your proposed values are probably better for the mod, especially for the Claymore which still needs to be able to one-shot basics. I think +25% weapon damage + ammo power damage should be enough, but I don't know for sure.

Again, I am just giving some suggestions and we can go from there, which you have already done, and it looks okay to me.


2) I can only go by my experience from the base game. I have rarely taken the Shield Boost option at rank 6 of Adrenaline Rush, and when I have I usually hate the fact that I do not have the ability to stagger or detonate enemies with Concussive Shot.

And since I have never taken Shield Boost, I find the damage reduction at rank 4 Hardening rather negligible compared to the extra time dilation. So I find the extra damage worth taking instead, and the extra time dilation is good for lining up headshots, even if you do lag behind the Infiltrator's sniper bonuses. The extra damage is still worth it for weapons like the Claymore and Raider.


3) My proposed changes to Adrenaline Rush duration are only slight changes.
Right now, rank 3 Duration +30% adds 1.20 seconds. I want to decrease it to +25% so it only adds 1.00 seconds.
Rank 5 Duration +40% adds 1.60 seconds. I want that increased to +50% so it adds 2.00 seconds duration.

Basically I want Adrenaline Rush duration changed so you get either 5s or 7s from Adrenaline Rush instead of 5.20s or 6.80s from Adrenaline Rush. (Note that you can get another 1s duration from Combat Mastery, but only if you take the garbage evolution at rank 4.)

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 14 août 2013 - 12:16 .

[capn233]

If potential power damage is the same, I am not sure Engineer is much better against shields than a ranked up Infiltrator. No infiltrator doesn't have a direct anti-shield power, but the weapon damage boost is going to make up for it.

Claymore X (1648) on Infiltrator w/ Disruptor vs Claymore X on Engineer + Overload (+85)

Infiltrator does (1648)(1+0.6+0.15+0.25) = 3296 + 1384 ammo = 4680 in one cloaked shot

Engineer (1648)(1+0.25) = 2060 weapon
Overload (330)(1.85)(6)= 3663. vs shields for 5723

I don't know, maybe Infiltrator does need revised down. If I go to 50% total damage on cloak and take back the 5% weapon I added in passive, he loses 10% power and 15% weapon damage.

*edit* I was wrong, at least for full damage overload against an Atlas.  Then again I guess Infiltrator could get a little more damage from Sabotage or Incinerate.  So I will probably drop Engineer a bit.  Even though a Sniper infiltrator is going to do 2000 ammo damage pretty easily.

As for Rank 4 evolution, if I shift more bonus to Rank 1 and reduce Rank 4 there is eventually a point where it makes more sense to take duration, especially if you want to run very heavy weapons since more duration will lower actual cooldowns (you use less total duration in a given cloak cycle for the same time cloaked). I haven't figured out where that is. I could do something like 40% base damage and 10% bonus at Rank 4.

As for the enemy health, really only armored units got boost (Atlas, Ravager, Brute, Banshee, Prime) plus the Centurion got more shields. Most humanoids are the same as in base game.

Adrenaline Rush: 40% DR on Hardening makes it a lot more attractive, especially if base damage is 50%. And because enemies are more accurate and do more damage. As for Shield boost, it probably only makes sense if you take Hardening, otherwise Bonus Power is still better, and probably still better on most builds. You don't get as much CS cheese now though.

What I don't want to happen is a system where we end up with a Soldier that isn't any better than at release with mediocre weapon damage. I took away his original gimmick (IEB) and then the 1.04 gimmick. I don't know how much weapon damage I can remove and still have him be decent. And of course, pulling out weapon damage essentially means it needs to go from Infiltrator as well since Infiltrator needs to be weaker with most guns than Soldier.

edit: didn't do the Overload number right

Modifié par capn233, 14 août 2013 - 04:26 .

[capn233]

Sometime later today I might try and test the following:

Adrenaline Rush
-Base Dilation 25
-Rank 3 Duration 25% (30)
-Evolve Damage (Rank 4) 15% (25)
-Hardening 40% (25)
-Evolve Duration (Rank 5) 50% (40)
-Shield evolution increased to 100% (50)

Combat Mastery
-Evolve Weapon Damage (Rank 4) 2.5% (5)
-Evolve capacity 75 (50)
-Evolve Weapon Damage 2 (Weapon Master) 2.5% (10)
-Evolve Ammo Damage (Weapon Master) 30% (40)

Cloak
-Base Cooldown 12s
-Base damage bonus 40% (50)
-Base duration 6 (8)
-Minimum cloak cooldown 4s (3)
-Rank 4 damage evolution 10% (40)
-Rank 6 Sniper damage 30% (40)

Operational Mastery
-Base sniper time dilation 15 (25)
-Evolve Rank 4 Power Damage 5% (10)
-Evolve Power Damage and Duration 15% (25)

Tech Mastery
-Rank 3 power damage 15 (10)
-Evolve drone damage 100 (50)

Disruptor Ammo
-Max to 70% vs shields

Modifié par capn233, 15 août 2013 - 12:32 .

[capn233]

Some updates...

Infiltrator was still pretty beastly even with cloak general damage down to 50%... and then I ran into the issue of the Black Widow... with all the disruptor bonuses, no change to dynamic SR, and reduced shieldgate, it was too easy to be able to one-shot most Cerberus shielded units. Hence the change to 30SR and 70% for Disruptor.

If my numbers are right, you should still be able to one-shot a level 60 Centurion with Black Widow X if you can find 1.15 additive bonus from intel, armor, and weapon mods (there are 1.2 available w/o counting the Paddle Fish). With Fortification, you only need 1.1...

Non-snipers still work fine on infiltrator IMO, despite lengthened cooldowns and less general damage.

I didn't really do too much as far as nerfing Soldier this time, so he is still mostly fine. The breaks for snipers are somewhat interesting though... it was going to be possible to one-shot a Centurion with a bodyshot and I didn't like that, which is why the nerf to Disruptor and his Weapon Master. If you look at where I moved the damage around, the idea was to make some of the "useless" evolutions slightly more attractive by allowing you to take them while still getting decent weapon damage bonuses. Specifically Weight Capacity where you can get 12.5 of 15 weapon damage and still take that. You probably don't though, unless you are playing a hybrid soldier and want to spam Slam or something. If there is any outcry that Soldier is weak in this regime, I would buff Frags.

Engineer is ok with just 75% bonus. I think what helped him the most was the radius changes to Cryo and Incinerate. He is not exactly a combo machine now, but the powers are decent in CC, and the extra radius helps hit dodging targets.

One other thing that I need to look into that I haven't been thinking about. AP Ammo actually has a 50% penalty when shooting through cover (unlike in MP). I will probably change that to something that makes it worth taking over piercing mods.

[capn233]

Some more thoughts...

I am going to fool with Charge's DR a bit. 30% for 3s is what I am thinking, as opposed to just reducing the duration. Also bumping Bonus Power chance up to 40.

I'm probably releasing too many of these too frequently.  Ah well.

Modifié par capn233, 15 août 2013 - 04:23 .