83 réponses à ce sujet

[LupoCarlos]

More lore?


(TES is The Elder Scrolls)

[TheClonesLegacy]

This'll end well.

[xNYROx]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

This'll end well.

My thoughts exactly.

[vometia]

Free roaming is probably the biggest thing for me personally.

And more shoes.

[LupoCarlos]

vometia wrote...

Free roaming is probably the biggest thing for me personally.

And more shoes.

TES:
Nice armor dude.
*kills him*
*Loots*
*Takes armor*

DA:
Nice armor dude.
*kills him*
*loots*
*elf root*

[Battlebloodmage]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

This'll end well.

Doubt it since most of the comparison arguments stems from the Witcher, not TES. Most of the console and game wars wouldn't have to get out of hand if people don't feel a sense of elitist for playing a certain game or system.

Although if I have to compare the two games, I like the open world of TES much better. There are more customizations and friendly mod-support.  The nature of DA series may prevent a true open world experience, but I think customization and mod support could truly improve the experience if done right.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 27 juillet 2013 - 08:29 .

[vometia]

LupoCarlos wrote...

TES:
Nice armor dude.
*kills him*
*Loots*
*Takes armor*

DA:
Nice armor dude.
*kills him*
*loots*
*elf root*

God, that's irritating, isn't it?

[Tommy6860]

LupoCarlos wrote...

More lore?


(TES is The Elder Scrolls)

This^

[Tommy6860]

Way better armor, better toolset (for the PC gamers) so those with good graphics skills can make better equipment and character models, free roaming (not a linear map scheme) and last but not least, better graphics. As noted in the first reply, the lore smokes Dragon Age. Where DA beats the hell out of TES is story, plot, character interaction, deep rich dialogue (though it does have very good lore), followers that matter and epic role playing. Just think, if one had been able to play DA with its characters (or similar development), story, along with writing of dialogue and story with Skyrim's open world, graphics and magic/fighting abilities, that game would be the ultimate. Not to forget, the TES series has a much better musical score as well.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 27 juillet 2013 - 09:28 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

mods?

obviously i haven't played this "Dragon Age" and i don't intend to ever do so

[bEVEsthda]

Well, TES have

A silent protagonist!

No annoying movies to interrupt the ambient experience.

No illogical 'iconic' characters to serve illogical 'needs' such as comics and anime.

Also, in most other ways as well, it's general freedom better supports 'emergent narrative' and 'role-play' (by mine and many's definition). Certainly, DA2 was a disaster at this.

Where TES fails, is with the definition of NPCs and their actions, in particular with companions, and the lousy action-combat, ofc.

[Dominus]

BioWare does what Bethesdon't?

The big ones in my mind for TES would be Atmosphere & Exploration. The gameplay's more thought-provoking in Dragon Age, but I feel far more immersed(and less confined) in Skyrim.

This'll end well.

That depends. I've seen 'Versus' threads manage in a civil manner - it's up to the BSNers themselves to whether or not it's a productive thread.

Modifié par DominusVita, 27 juillet 2013 - 10:28 .

[Tommy6860]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

mods?

obviously i haven't played this "Dragon Age" and i don't intend to ever do so

So, what was your point?

[Tommy6860]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Well, TES have

A silent protagonist! 

So does DA.

No annoying movies to interrupt the ambient experience.

That's subjective. TES game from Morrowind on had breaks in the game where you had to wait for dialogue to finish. While not cut-scenes, they certainly were interruptions. But if one is into storytelling, well DA's movies smoke TES for content and highlighting the story. But, to each their own.

No illogical 'iconic' characters to serve illogical 'needs' such as comics and anime.

Well, the topic was DA, so I get the feeling you're referring to DA2. There's no comparison, IMO; Origins to #2 totally stunk for me as #2 was not a good experience.

Also, in most other ways as well, it's general freedom better supports 'emergent narrative' and 'role-play' (by mine and many's definition). Certainly, DA2 was a disaster at this.

Freedom to roam in a completely open world has little to do with a narrative; good writing and storytelling does that. So, I don't see how one can climb the side of a mountain not available in DA means having a better narrative. But, YMMV I guess 

Where TES fails, is with the definition of NPCs and their actions, in particular with companions, and the lousy action-combat, ofc.

Maybe the only two things I agree on with you on this. Still though, having played Daggerfall through Skyrim, the combat system got better with each iteration. Oblivion was gawd awful in that aspect and Morrowind was a joke compared to Oblivion. The dialogue was so limited and cheesy in Skyrim with the companions, as that made them feel meaningless. I have to admit, I did like the Vilja mod for Skyrim. She was also good in Oblivion.

[bEVEsthda]

Tommy6860 wrote...
So does DA.

No. DA:O had. Last DA game, DA2, and next DA game, DA:I, does not have 'Silent Protagonist'. So DA does not have any silent protagonist. Not any longer.

That's subjective. TES game from Morrowind on had breaks in the game where you had to wait for dialogue to finish. While not cut-scenes, they certainly were interruptions. But if one is into storytelling, well DA's movies smoke TES for content and highlighting the story. But, to each their own.

Waiting for dialogues to finish is normal. I do that in RL too, so it's no immersion breaker. (I NEVER play 'triel&error-reload-gaming' so the dialogue is always fresh.). Movie-story-telling is something almost all non-RPGs have as well. I don't look to "RPG"s to provide that. I look to RPGs to provide a setting for roleplay. In fact, I'll go as far as saying that I'm kinda allergic to interactive movies. I hate it with a passion. RPGs should be the very last type of games to have any use for that.

Well, the topic was DA, so I get the feeling you're referring to DA2. There's no comparison, IMO; Origins to #2 totally stunk for me as #2 was not a good experience.

Same as the case of 'Silent Protagonist'. 'Iconic Characters' is now a part of DA. They were in DA:2, but despite the universal outcry of disgust, marketing dudes and game design consultants remain confident that they're the greatest infusion into RPGs since railroading, so they'll be in DA:I as well and are thus now a part of what DA is about.

Freedom to roam in a completely open world has little to do with a narrative; good writing and storytelling does that. So, I don't see how one can climb the side of a mountain not available in DA means having a better narrative. But, YMMV I guess 

*Storytelling* in a wRPG should not look towards novels or movies. That's what makes jRPGs (and DA:2) worthless as RPGs. 'Good writing' is just icing on the cake. Fluff, 100%. The emergent narrative doesn't in any way whatsoever depend on that.
Freedom means that the 'storytelling' is your own. The emergent story unfolds, depending upon your choices and what happens to you. It's not possible to have the personal epics of a TES game in DA. I used to be fine with that because in BG and DA:O you could *almost*, or it felt so. Those games' approach to 'story-driven' gameplay was ok. Hopefully, DA:I will be too. I'm rather convinced it'll be, actually.

Maybe the only two things I agree on with you on this. Still though, having played Daggerfall through Skyrim, the combat system got better with each iteration. Oblivion was gawd awful in that aspect and Morrowind was a joke compared to Oblivion. The dialogue was so limited and cheesy in Skyrim with the companions, as that made them feel meaningless. I have to admit, I did like the Vilja mod for Skyrim. She was also good in Oblivion.

The interactions are just representational placeholders for the basic functions of communications. The only way get around that is to let the *real things* take place inside your head (everything is always in your head, anyway, no matter what game you play).
Interestingly, I found it much easier and natural to play so in Morrowind, than in Skyrim. The explanation must be that I were then much more used to very basic and spartan definition of game-worlds.
There are technical solutions for getting better defined NPCs in TES-style games though (as some mods for PC-version already show). Hopefully we'll see them in the nextgen consoles, which will have by order of magnitude greater ram/cpu resources for such.



<EDIT> P.S. Rereading this, my post, I now feel I emphasized a negative attitude towards 'Cinematics' way too much.
Cinematics do have a place in RPGs. Both for displaying NPC sentiments and illustrating events we witness. My very negative attitude comes from my lingering fear that it'll all degenerate into an interactive movie.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 27 juillet 2013 - 12:10 .

[Tommy6860]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...
So does DA.

No. DA:O had. Last DA game, DA2, and next DA game, DA:I, does not have 'Silent Protagonist'. So DA does not have any silent protagonist. Not any longer.

DA is fairly used for mentioning Dragon Age in general. If you want to play semantics, then I won't,  it wasn't what you originally posted, so I won't bite. DA does not = DA2 (note how you specified DA in the first reply where I responded :/)

Modifié par Tommy6860, 27 juillet 2013 - 12:00 .

[In Exile]

LupoCarlos wrote...
TES:
Nice armor dude.
*kills him*
*Loots*
*Takes armor*

DA:
Nice armor dude.
*kills him*
*loots*
*elf root*

You're right. The inability to rob the people I murder is really one of those things that wrecks my experience. I really want to steal the boots off the dead, and DA's inability to facilitate that is a failure. 

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Freedom means that the 'storytelling' is your own. The emergent story unfolds, depending upon your choices and what happens to you. It's not possible to have the personal epics of a TES game in DA. I used to be fine with that because in BG and DA:O you could *almost*, or it felt so. Those games' approach to 'story-driven' gameplay was ok. Hopefully, DA:I will be too. I'm rather convinced it'll be, actually.

Remember that part in Skyrim where I organized my own independent coup against Ulfric, and, after executing him publically, moved to push the imperials out of Skyrim of my own accord with an army fanatically loyal to the me as the Dragonborn?

No? Huh. That's weird. I could have sworn I had freedom. 

Oh! Do you remember that part I express a personal philosophy in-game using the dialogue options that allow you to do that? 

Oh... wait. 

Hmm... do you remember that part where the game world radically changed because of my in-game choices with exclusive content!? 

... Oh, wait. 


Hmm... 

[bEVEsthda]

In Exile wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Freedom means that the 'storytelling' is your own. The emergent story unfolds, depending upon your choices and what happens to you. It's not possible to have the personal epics of a TES game in DA. I used to be fine with that because in BG and DA:O you could *almost*, or it felt so. Those games' approach to 'story-driven' gameplay was ok. Hopefully, DA:I will be too. I'm rather convinced it'll be, actually.

Remember that part in Skyrim where I organized my own independent coup against Ulfric, and, after executing him publically, moved to push the imperials out of Skyrim of my own accord with an army fanatically loyal to the me as the Dragonborn?

No? Huh. That's weird. I could have sworn I had freedom. 

Oh! Do you remember that part I express a personal philosophy in-game using the dialogue options that allow you to do that? 

Oh... wait. 

Hmm... do you remember that part where the game world radically changed because of my in-game choices with exclusive content!? 

... Oh, wait. 


Hmm... 

Why would I remember anything you did? Which you even haven't told me?

Also, it seems, you're mistaking "freedom" for "everything you wish for magically happens".
Finally, freedom is always a relative property. Always was, always will be. In RL as in games.

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Why would I remember anything you did? Which you even haven't told me?

You wouldn't, because none of those things are possible. 

Also, it seems, you're mistaking "freedom" for "everything you wish for magically happens".

No, I'm pointing out that I can't create my own story. I'm as hardcore on the rails in Skyrim as I am in DA. I can just make up reasons for the stuff I'm doing on rails in Skyrim. That's the only "freedom" this mimimalist approach to story actually offers. 

Keep in mind that you were talking about emergent gameplay and personal stories, and not things like exploration or interactivity (with physical objects in the world). 

Finally, freedom is always a relative property. Always was, always will be. In RL as in games.

Yes, but what I'm objecting to is the idea that writing fan-fiction is narrative freedom. 

Modifié par In Exile, 27 juillet 2013 - 12:53 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

I GOT IT.TES sells 20 times more copies/digital copies

[vometia]

Tommy6860 wrote...

... better toolset (for the PC gamers) so those with good graphics skills can make better equipment and character models...

I was wondering about mentioning that: I was never successful at creating mods for DA, but I'm not sure if that's down to my own cluelessness or if it really is a lot harder than with TES.  I certainly never got along well with Toolset, though.

[Dutchess]

Race options for the player character.

[Dutchess]

Dp.