66 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

I'm glad they didn't go that route. I wouldn't be too keen on being railroaded into playing Saren 2.0.

[Gold Dragon]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm glad they didn't go that route. I wouldn't be too keen on being railroaded into playing Saren 2.0.

I agree with this.  As an option that doesn't HAVE to be taken, maybe, but the full ending?  NO!!

[Bleachrude]

In a way it reminds me of what the developers for the DA franchise once envisioned for mage characters...

They would be constantly be tempted by demons and/or suffer from lyrium overdosing (as the lore mentions). Unfortunately, this was seen as not possible since players would simply reload and/or complain about their character supposedly falling to demons.

Of course, not implementing this has had the problem of making most players think that falling to demon blandishments are overstated since THEIR character doesn't seem to be affected.

[Mcfly616]

MrFob wrote...

Speaking of which, in a twisted way, one could even argue that this is exactly what happens in the last 10 minutes of the game. Shepard and the player put all their hopes into the ctucible. But they find out that in the end, it's operation actually depends on an entity that represents the reapers. Shepard is given a couple of solutions for the conflict, all by this entity and either he refuses and looses the fight or he picks one. Isn't that a way of succumbing to the reapers own devices? Isn't that ultimately corrupting the character of Shepard, his/her vision of how the conflict should end by mingling it with the reapers solution fr their (completely unrelated) problem?

Shepard is not "given" the solutions by the Catalyst. The Crucible provides them (which isn't a Reaper device). The Catalyst merely explains the options and acknowledges that they essentially render its current solution obsolete. Shepard is the only one that can make it happen. If he/she refuses, the Catalyst has no other option besides continuing its own solution until it finds a way to fulfill its purpose. No, its not succumbing to the Reapers own devices. It's actually turning their own devices against them (Citadel/Mass Relays).

And it seems their problem is quite related. We're just a fraction of a sample size in a much bigger experiment. In any conflict, knowing the enemies motives is invaluable.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 29 juillet 2013 - 12:00 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Thanks for the link. Especially Matt Rhodes' blog is great to read.

From that it is very obvious that continuity is not a priority within the worlds created by BW. That's a shame really. Instead of pouring all that thought and energy into the initial designs, the whole thing gets reworked later on, as if it were totally new franchises. When a title is supposed to portray a time just a few years after the previous one then it doesn't make sense to make radical changes. SF and fantasy games are not about realism, far from that, but about portraying a believable world. Changes like those don't contribute to that. I would rather see that when game tech allows better visuals that existing designs were translated accordingly. More attention should be given to new characters, new landscapes, new architecture, etc. However, what's already established, shouldn't change much at all. But I think that marketing and cheap production goals have a too big influence in this. So that leads to a stock photo of Tali (even when a great original design already exist in draft) and changing Ashley's appearance to keep teenager boys happy.

[Humakt83]

ReaperShep was obviously saved for ME 4. You spent ME 3 becoming that Shepard (or not).

[Wayning_Star]

folks seems to miss the fact that the MEU is ALL made up of reaper tech. Without it, there'd be NO MEU... ReaperShep or no, technically, everyone in the MEU is reapers via their dependency on this circumstance.

[Mcfly616]

Wayning_Star wrote...

folks seems to miss the fact that the MEU is ALL made up of reaper tech.

Pretty much...

[Wayning_Star]

well, look on the bright side, organics "did" create the reapers and their apparent tech...so..cheer up?

[KaiserShep]

Wayning_Star wrote...

folks seems to miss the fact that the MEU is ALL made up of reaper tech. Without it, there'd be NO MEU... ReaperShep or no, technically, everyone in the MEU is reapers via their dependency on this circumstance.

And with the reapers dead, the galaxy can use both the tech they purposely left behind, as well as their inert corpses to move on.

[Wayning_Star]

KaiserShep wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

folks seems to miss the fact that the MEU is ALL made up of reaper tech. Without it, there'd be NO MEU... ReaperShep or no, technically, everyone in the MEU is reapers via their dependency on this circumstance.

And with the reapers dead, the galaxy can use both the tech they purposely left behind, as well as their inert corpses to move on.

but we don't know any thing about that 'moving on' stuff? we do know that reaper ships don't/ are never actually "dead", that is something to think about... isn't it? In the "off chance" that their cargo can be re utilized , or better put as reconnected, it might be worth a try to do so. Most doctors agree..lol

[bleetman]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Thanks for the link. Especially Matt Rhodes' blog is great to read.

Yeah, about that.

This was an early take on Ashley’s costume. The idea was to create a hybrid of uniform and armor. I’ve always been fond of the idea of futuristic wet-suit armor.

I was going to make some snarky comment along the lines of 'you know who isn't fond of the idea of wet suit armour? Ashley freaking Williams', but hey. It's concept art. It's not supposed to be definitive.

But then there's this.

I wanted to try a suit that was flexible, but sturdy and protective. Flexible, futuristic armor is a concept that requires too much in-game exposition though. At the end of the day it was decided that players need to see hard-shell armor.

Wait.

Hold up.

Stop the train.

What game are we talking about here? Mass Effect 1? Because I'm trying to recall where the exposition was for this. Or this. Or this. About the only one I can remember being referenced in any way was TIM's suit in Lair of the Shadow Broker, even if the game went and ignored that at the end anyway.

Either it's her original concept art (as in, before ME1), and they rejected it on the basis that it would take too much time to explain in a way that made any sense - which I find pretty goddam hilarious if that's the case, given how the next two games went - or the right hand isn't talking to the left.

Modifié par bleetman, 29 juillet 2013 - 02:52 .

[jstme]

[quote]Mcfly616 wrote...
[/quote] Shepard is not "given" the solutions by the Catalyst. The Crucible provides them (which isn't a Reaper device). The Catalyst merely explains the options and acknowledges that they essentially render its current solution obsolete. Shepard is the only one that can make it happen. If he/she refuses, the Catalyst has no other option besides continuing its own solution until it finds a way to fulfill its purpose. No, its not succumbing to the Reapers own devices. It's actually turning their own devices against them (Citadel/Mass Relays). 
And it seems their problem is quite related. We're just a fraction of a sample size in a much bigger experiment. In any conflict, knowing the enemies motives is invaluable. [/quote]

Crucible is a giant energy source of unknown design.Easily could be reaper tech, btw.
If crucible did not provide energy alone but hacked the Catalyst too , it did not have to go on reaping - since you know, it would have been overwritten by crucible. This is not the case,simply catalyst now sees different options since we plugged in new energy source.
And catalyst is in control during all the conversation. It presents the options. It describes those options. If you refuse catalyst new options, it continues with reaping. If you try to physically oppose it - it continues with reaping. Looks like clear case of submitting to catalyst blackmailing agenda.

[Wayning_Star]

I always took the crucible as Leviathan technology. As far as the MEU is concerned it could easily be a black hole mining tool...

edit: forgot to mention that they swiped it off a thrall race..or probably did. That's their apparent key to apexness. (up until the intelligence went all self aware..)

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 29 juillet 2013 - 02:57 .

[bleetman]

StreetMagic wrote...

The last thing I care about is exposition on armor. I know it's silly, but I guess I put priority on design/aesthetics. In other subjects, they're also the thing I care more about than engineering. Hell, if I get into car talk with friends, I still end up going for aesthetics.

That's your perogative. I'd be inclined to say a little less 'looks cool' and a little more 'makes any sense whatsoever' would've done Mass Effect good in general, but anyway, that wasn't really my point.

Assuming it's even talking about the first game - and I'm just going to assume it is, because the other explanations involve people in Bioware just ignoring each other - I'm just curious what changed between 'it'd require too much exposition' being the basis for rejecting the idea of putting Ashley in a lighter suit of armour, and, well... Mass Effect 2 and 3.

Modifié par bleetman, 29 juillet 2013 - 03:00 .

[Mcfly616]

jstme wrote...


Easily could be reaper tech, btw.

Speculation. Nothing more...

catalyst now sees different options since we plugged in new energy source.

Duh....I just said this.

And catalyst is in control during all the conversation. It presents the options. It describes those options. If you refuse catalyst new options, it continues with reaping. If you try to physically oppose it - it continues with reaping. Looks like clear case of submitting to catalyst blackmailing agenda.

not at all. Just because the Catalyst describes your options doesn't mean it created them. And it blatantly tells you it cant make it happen. The Catalyst has a purpose. Shepard has his cards dealt. If Shepard doesn't play the cards, and folds his hand.....the Catalyst still has a task to perform. If Shepard refuses to render the Catalysts solution obsolete, then Catalyst has no other option but to carry on with what it was doing because its the next best solution in preserving life.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 29 juillet 2013 - 03:04 .

[jstme]

Mcfly616 wrote...
 not at all. Just because the Catalyst describes your options doesn't mean it created them. And it blatantly tells you it cant make it happen. The Catalyst has a purpose. Shepard has his cards dealt. If Shepard doesn't play the cards, and folds his hand.....the Catalyst still has a task to perform. If Shepard refuses to render the Catalysts solution obsolete, then Catalyst has no other option but to carry on with what it was doing because its the next best solution in preserving life.

Exactly. If Shepard does not play along with catalyst and refuses to choose option presented by Catalyst (regardless who created those options though catalyst does mention attempting synthesis before,does it not?),  reaping will continue. You say it yourself. This is not submitting to reaper king? Not a blackmailing?
 

Modifié par jstme, 29 juillet 2013 - 03:16 .

[Bleachrude]

Ashely's outfit isn't armour...that's dress uniform. Weird looking dress uniform but clearly dress uniform...

The armour is fine...it's the uniqueness of the dress uniform that sticks out....

As for Jack and Miranda, I would point out that Jacob is wearingt he same skin-tight catsuit as Miranda...

In ME3, at the least, Liara's outfit/armour looks way more functional than Jacob's body suit in ME2.

[Mcfly616]

jstme wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 not at all. Just because the Catalyst describes your options doesn't mean it created them. And it blatantly tells you it cant make it happen. The Catalyst has a purpose. Shepard has his cards dealt. If Shepard doesn't play the cards, and folds his hand.....the Catalyst still has a task to perform. If Shepard refuses to render the Catalysts solution obsolete, then Catalyst has no other option but to carry on with what it was doing because its the next best solution in preserving life.

Exactly. If Shepard does not play along with catalyst and refuses to choose option presented by Catalyst (regardless who created those options though catalyst does mention attempting synthesis before,does it not?),  reaping will continue. You say it yourself. This is not submitting to reaper king? Not a blackmailing?
 

he's not "playing along" with the Catalyst at all. Shepard has been dealt his cards (not by the Catalyst). If he doesn't play them, that's not the Catalysts fault at all.


That's like you playing poker and folding your hand, and the guy next to you ends up winning and taking the pot of chips.....and then you accusing him of blackmail. Umm just no....


If you refuse to put the fire out when you had the choice, then its just gonna keep burning.

[Wayning_Star]

Bleachrude wrote...

Ashely's outfit isn't armour...that's dress uniform. Weird looking dress uniform but clearly dress uniform...

The armour is fine...it's the uniqueness of the dress uniform that sticks out....

As for Jack and Miranda, I would point out that Jacob is wearingt he same skin-tight catsuit as Miranda...

In ME3, at the least, Liara's outfit/armour looks way more functional than Jacob's body suit in ME2.

in relation to techno-evolutionary gambit, it would seem that in that time period and here in real time have their connection.
space magic below... maybe.
http://www.nanowerk....spotid=3134.php

[jstme]

Mcfly616 wrote...

jstme wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 not at all. Just because the Catalyst describes your options doesn't mean it created them. And it blatantly tells you it cant make it happen. The Catalyst has a purpose. Shepard has his cards dealt. If Shepard doesn't play the cards, and folds his hand.....the Catalyst still has a task to perform. If Shepard refuses to render the Catalysts solution obsolete, then Catalyst has no other option but to carry on with what it was doing because its the next best solution in preserving life.

Exactly. If Shepard does not play along with catalyst and refuses to choose option presented by Catalyst (regardless who created those options though catalyst does mention attempting synthesis before,does it not?),  reaping will continue. You say it yourself. This is not submitting to reaper king? Not a blackmailing?
 

he's not "playing along" with the Catalyst at all. Shepard has been dealt his cards (not by the Catalyst). If he doesn't play them, that's not the Catalysts fault at all.
That's like you playing poker and folding your hand, and the guy next to you ends up winning and taking the pot of chips.....and then you accusing him of blackmail. Umm just no....
If you refuse to put the fire out when you had the choice, then its just gonna keep burning.

If during poker your opponent tells you that you have to choose between calling red royal flush,pair of twos , 5 jokers or it takes all the money and walks away - this is blackmailing. 

Modifié par jstme, 29 juillet 2013 - 03:33 .