66 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

jstme wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

jstme wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 not at all. Just because the Catalyst describes your options doesn't mean it created them. And it blatantly tells you it cant make it happen. The Catalyst has a purpose. Shepard has his cards dealt. If Shepard doesn't play the cards, and folds his hand.....the Catalyst still has a task to perform. If Shepard refuses to render the Catalysts solution obsolete, then Catalyst has no other option but to carry on with what it was doing because its the next best solution in preserving life.

Exactly. If Shepard does not play along with catalyst and refuses to choose option presented by Catalyst (regardless who created those options though catalyst does mention attempting synthesis before,does it not?),  reaping will continue. You say it yourself. This is not submitting to reaper king? Not a blackmailing?
 

he's not "playing along" with the Catalyst at all. Shepard has been dealt his cards (not by the Catalyst). If he doesn't play them, that's not the Catalysts fault at all.
That's like you playing poker and folding your hand, and the guy next to you ends up winning and taking the pot of chips.....and then you accusing him of blackmail. Umm just no....
If you refuse to put the fire out when you had the choice, then its just gonna keep burning.

If during poker your opponent tells you that you have to choose between calling red royal flush,pair of twos , 5 jokers or it takes all the money and walks away - this is blackmailing. 

no its not. Especially when that player acknowledges that a royal flush, a pair of twos, and whatever you have is better than the hand he has.....

If you choose not to play your superior hand, then obviously the other players lesser hand wins by default. That's not blackmail.

[jstme]

Mcfly616 wrote...

If during poker your opponent tells you that you have to choose between calling red royal flush,pair of twos , 5 jokers or it takes all the money and walks away - this is blackmailing. 

no its not. Especially when that player acknowledges that a royal flush, a pair of twos, and whatever you have is better than the hand he has.....
If you choose not to play your superior hand, then obviously the other players lesser hand wins by default. That's not blackmail.

You kind of missed the point. This is not "choosing not to play superior hand", this is "not being able to play any other hand" that is not approved by your adversary.  Your poker opponent does not allow you to ,or it stops playing and takes the money. Not blackmailing? The end game is rigged....

Modifié par jstme, 29 juillet 2013 - 04:17 .

[wright1978]

Would have hated it if the game forced Shep into being corrupted almost as much as i hate the way ME3 tries to force Shep's death. Now if it had been the renegade path & there had at least one alternative path it could have been interesting.

[CptData]

StreetMagic wrote...

CptData wrote...


Wha'ever. I love Alliance. You rule. Finally some kind of military without a million skeletons in the closet. ^^

I don't know about that. Hackett is kind of shady in ME1. You just have to have a Renegade playthrough to get the quest, I think?

Well, I don't play renegade!Shepard, therefore my image of the Alliance is a bit positive.
Kinda refuse playing renegade since it gains me nothing except the feeling of an idiotic and/or cruel Shepard nobody should like.
If "renegade" would grant me anything and just feels like "do the job without all smooth talk" - fine. But cruel sh*t? Nope.

[Mcfly616]

jstme wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

If during poker your opponent tells you that you have to choose between calling red royal flush,pair of twos , 5 jokers or it takes all the money and walks away - this is blackmailing. 

no its not. Especially when that player acknowledges that a royal flush, a pair of twos, and whatever you have is better than the hand he has.....
If you choose not to play your superior hand, then obviously the other players lesser hand wins by default. That's not blackmail.

You kind of missed the point. This is not "choosing not to play superior hand", this is "not being able to play any other hand" that is not approved by your adversary.

I think you're the one still missing the point. It has nothing to do with being "approved" by your adversary (the Catalyst). The Crucible created these possibilities. Not the Catalyst. The Catalyst merely explains to you what the Crucible made possible, whilst acknowledging that they are superior to its own solution.


You're acting like the Catalyst is the dealer of this little poker game. But he is merely another player at the table with a lesser hand than you.


Should we go with food? You have a choice between lasagna, prime rib, or a nice juicy burger......thats all there is in the kitchen..... Or you could refuse them and go on starving. Now if somebody comes in and explains this to you, and you refuse to eat any of these fine dishes.....you would say that this somebody is blackmailing you? I'd hope not. All they did was tell you what your options were.


Beggars can't be choosers. Sometimes you play the cards you're dealt. Sometimes you take what you can get. This is just starting to sound like mindless hate for the Catalyst with no real point.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 29 juillet 2013 - 09:11 .

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think you're the one still missing the point. It has nothing to do with being "approved" by your adversary (the Catalyst). The Crucible created these possibilities. Not the Catalyst. The Catalyst merely explains to you what the Crucible made possible, whilst acknowledging that they are superior to its own solution.

There shouldn't even be a "poker" game at all. Both of the players should step away and let evolution run it's course.

then choose Destroy.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think you're the one still missing the point. It has nothing to do with being "approved" by your adversary (the Catalyst). The Crucible created these possibilities. Not the Catalyst. The Catalyst merely explains to you what the Crucible made possible, whilst acknowledging that they are superior to its own solution.

There shouldn't even be a "poker" game at all. Both of the players should step away and let evolution run it's course.

then choose Destroy.

Of course.

But if I see someone awash in delusion, I'd like to slap them around for awhile, tell them to snap out of it. Even if it's an AI, I'd like to bring some closure there.

I guess it isn't possible. There's one line you can give the Catalyst that works well enough:"You'll never understand us."

understandable. I'm not sure what "delusion" you're speaking of though.

[ShepnTali]

I like the idea, but it's all about planning and execution. I'm open to many scratchpad ideas, as any idea within the confines of any given universe can be molded into something good, given imagination.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Mcfly616 wrote...

http://www.geek.com/...better-1563293/

So early on in the Trilogy's development, some at Bioware were thinking Shepard would eventually turn to Reaper technology in order to "achieve the games goals". He/she would've essentially walked the same path as Saren. He/she would've become corrupted.....

I don't necessarily agree with the writers opinions on everything discussed , but it is interesting regardless of their opinions.

Now, some may think the idea intriguing. But I'd imagine that a specific sect of people who hate the endings particularly because they incorrectly think of them as the "Reapers choices", would've been absolutely outraged with the concept of "ReaperShep".



(Link may not be clickable)

I think it would have been cool if Shepard was brought back from death by the Lazarus project through the use of Reaper tech, which in turn would play a role in defeating them. Granted I do not think it should end the way mentioned above (or it should be avoidable).

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...
The delusion of bringing order to chaos.

its specific goal is to preserve life. Life which will inevitably be eradicated without intervention.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...
The delusion of bringing order to chaos.

its specific goal is to preserve life. Life which will inevitably be eradicated without intervention.

That's more akin to a religious belief (which is what futurism and the tech singularity amounts to. Religion.). Evolution/life/survival doesn't have any hard rules or inevitabilties.

maybe.....or atleast, as far as we know. In fact, there's no way of knowing due to the fact we haven't even left our own planet yet. There are things we may not comprehend. Either way, futurism and tech singularity is a common sci fi trope. Make of it what you will.

In this fiction, it is established that the Catalysts creators witnessed the extinction of entire civilizations at the hands of their own creations, over and over and over. Which is why they created the Intelligence in the first place. It's not a theory.....it has been observed.