Indeed, in Ferelden the only governance we ever see is feudalism with an absolute monarch at the top.Thomas Andresen wrote...
There certainly doesn't seem to be any precedent for democracy anywhere in Thedas, as far as I've seen.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Frankly, the entire concept of democracy seems a bit odd, given the pseudo-medieval setting.
Counts as an aristocracy, doesn't it?Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Kirkwall's leadership appears to be selected by the consensus of the elites.
And you don't think its ironic that the loudest cries of liberty comes from a group that places the lives of thousands in the hands of five people?Thomas Andresen wrote...
There certainly doesn't seem to be any precedent for democracy anywhere in Thedas, as far as I've seen.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Frankly, the entire concept of democracy seems a bit odd, given the pseudo-medieval setting.
"...let your votes be heard."Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Fiona doesn't even use the word vote. She said they elected to be represented - they could have done that through an informal discussion.
You need a precedent for libert when you've decided that's what you want?Does that matter? Does the separation initiative need democratic legitimacy? Frankly, the entire concept of democracy seems a bit odd, given the pseudo-medieval setting.
Why are you conflating liberty and democracy?Youth4Ever wrote...
You need a precedent for libert when you've decided that's what you want?
Guest_Puddi III_*
Not really the same thing. The "right" in question in the mage/templar threads is freedom, and there are plenty of examples of freedom in Thedas, mage or otherwise, for mages to aspire to. And it seems rather self-evident why this would be an innate desire among any group of people.Youth4Ever wrote...
And this response is ammusing to me since any civil rights argument similar to this gets spun around on templar supporters.
That's what the current vote has done. Pure democratic vote couldn't have been worse. It would have been better IMO because at least everyone would have gotten a say.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
There are some who would argue that democracy is antithetical to individual liberty, as it robs the individual of all power, instead giving that power to the majority.
Modifié par TK514, 02 août 2013 - 07:10 .
This is in my mind a human rights issue, as is any issue mage supporters have with templars. Being arbitraliy deprived of the right to life. This vote seems very arbitrary considering they voted on representation, indicating at some point there was a purely democratic vote to either do that, or decide to do that.Filament wrote...
Not really the same thing. The "right" in question in the mage/templar threads is freedom, and there are plenty of examples of freedom in Thedas, mage or otherwise, for mages to aspire to. And it seems rather self-evident why this would be an innate desire among any group of people.
I don't think you need a precedent for this considering a shrewd mage against separation would know the power dynamic of the Circle. The vote was 3-2 against separation, but because fraternity size is counted the radicals won out. You wouldn't want the vote to be counted by fraternity size. You have a better shot with Circle representation because there are fifteen Circles. And because its rather clear they voted on representation, I want to know how they voted on it, and what the outcome was. And yes, I'm questioning this vote because I disagree with it. I don't think most people question things they do agree with. And I could cast aspersion on this vote in other ways. Like Rhys being the Aequitarain representative when hours before he was a Libertarian. Like giving all of your power to a representative rather than the representative presenting a collection of votes to the Circle on your behalf. The way the vote was handled was peculiar, so I'm going to question it.This is not the case for direct democracy. I'm not aware that there's any precedent for actual direct democracy in Thedas. Ferelden has a kind of voting, but only among the feudal lords, and they have a King. Orzammar has deshyrs, but they are also the noble class, and they also have a King. The Dalish have Keepers, Orlais has an Empress. The Chantry has a Divine. Are there any societies that actually demonstrate effective direct democracy? I'm not sure why mages should consider it a fundamentally desirable thing to emulate. Evidently they think their fraternity leaders/spokesmen are better equipped to make and carry the weight of such decisions as a sort of quasi-representative democratic system, which itself already seems awfully progressive for Thedas. I guess you'd like to undermine the legitimacy of that because you think the representatives are radical, but there's no real proven or objective rule that direct democracy produces a better result, in Thedas or otherwise.
Modifié par Youth4Ever, 02 août 2013 - 07:38 .
I wouldn't. I'd be outta there, or trying to call for a new vote.TK514 wrote...
I find it a little surprising there was even a mechanism to have a vote on the general subject to begin with, or that anyone considered it a binding decision.
This vote was at Andoral's Reach, so it was not under any Chantry supervision. The mages have gone rogue by this time."We think you are all potential WMDs that need to be segregated and guarded by a force specifically trained and empowered to kill you if need be, but you can hold a vote to see if you like it or not" doesn't seem like the sort of thing the Chantry or the Templars would have allowed to be included in the Circle's founding documents.
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