19 réponses à ce sujet

[tanisha__unknown]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/17041972/3#17049906

JamesFaith wrote ...


Well, this video shows examples of work of individual people on Skyrim during 1 week.



For me it isn't hard to imagine how more can group of people do in 6 weeks.

Quite a lot, but a full fleshed DLC? The examples in the video where included tweaks to already existing stuff, not totally new content. Just imagine, they had released Dragonborne together with the game at the same day. That is the size we're talking about.

Modifié par Jinx1720, 28 juillet 2013 - 07:58 .

[Teddie Sage]

Why did the mods shut down the other thread, in the first place?

[JamesFaith]

When I would doubt that they are able to do DLC like Leviathan or Omega during 6 weeks, From ashes is possible.

Honestly, look on it.

Environment is mostly reused and create from old components.
Enemies are same as in ME3.
No new game mechanics.

Only new things here is Javik, his cut scenes and his dialogs - and with concentration of full BW team this should be done in few weeks.

[tanisha__unknown]

@JamesFaith

I agree that the mission would be very easy to do. It is basically one map, two cutscenes, a new weapon and the known enemies. What bothers me is the amount of dialogue you will have to add and integrate into existing one. You have to write it and then bring back a lot of voice actors, not just the one that played Javik. I guess that is what makes it costly both money and timewise. And do not forget, you still have to get the agreement of Sony and MS for the release of the DLC, too. That may take at least another one or two weeks development time away.

[JamesFaith]

Amount of dialog in fact isn't so big, it just about third of dialogs in Leviathan. We translated it during one night in two people (for comparing, whole ME3 took 2 1/2 months).

This voice-acting would be only few hours long job for everyone involved.

Sony and MS agreement is something I have no idea about, so I can't even guess here.

[voteDC]

When you consider that everything about Javik except the recruitment mission itself is available via a small tweak, it does become a little hard to believe this is content developed when the main game was finished. It would seem to be far too well integrated to be post main development content.

Then again I know nothing about game design.

[o Ventus]

ME3 went gold less than 3 weeks before it released. From Ashes wasn't completed after development on the main game stopped.

[Ninja Stan]

voteDC wrote...

When you consider that everything about Javik except the recruitment mission itself is available via a small tweak, it does become a little hard to believe this is content developed when the main game was finished. It would seem to be far too well integrated to be post main development content.

Then again I know nothing about game design.

From Ashes was not developed only after work on the main game was completed. Because Javik was intended to be DLC, BioWare planned ahead and set the stage for his content. This gave them more options for Javik's content because he was planned for ahead of time. That's why he seemed "far too well integrated."

[voteDC]

Thanks for the insight Ninja Stan.

[nevar00]

I still disagree with him being DLC in the first place. A living Prothean was vital to the lore of the game and really added to the whole theme in ME3 in the first place. He should've been in as a mandatory character while Vega or EDI as a squad mate should've been DLC in my opinion.

[Ninja Stan]

nevar00 wrote...

I still disagree with him being DLC in the first place. A living Prothean was vital to the lore of the game and really added to the whole theme in ME3 in the first place. He should've been in as a mandatory character while Vega or EDI as a squad mate should've been DLC in my opinion.

Lots of people REALLY like Javik and think he's vital to the Mass Effect story and/or experience. Because of this, he sold rather well as DLC. EDI may have done well as DLC, but she was deemed an integral character for the core game. Vega may or may not have sold well as DLC. Like it or not, DLC needs to be attractive to players so it sells well and is worth the effort in creating it. There's no point in creating DLC that people don't want or feel meh about, since it won't sell as well.

Really, everyone crowing that "Javik should have been part of the main game!" and "Javik is integral to the lore!" is reinforcing BioWare's decision to have him as a DLC character.

[Iakus]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Really, everyone crowing that "Javik should have been part of the main game!" and "Javik is integral to the lore!" is reinforcing BioWare's decision to have him as a DLC character.

I don't see that as a good thing at all.


Don't get me wrong, while I liked javik and his perspective, I did not see him as integral to the game.  You can play the game just fine without him.  But if this only reinforces adding more paid Day One dlc, I can't see that going anywhere good, for players or developers' images.

[tanisha__unknown]

Ninja Stan wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

I still disagree with him being DLC in the first place. A living Prothean was vital to the lore of the game and really added to the whole theme in ME3 in the first place. He should've been in as a mandatory character while Vega or EDI as a squad mate should've been DLC in my opinion.

Lots of people REALLY like Javik and think he's vital to the Mass Effect story and/or experience. Because of this, he sold rather well as DLC. EDI may have done well as DLC, but she was deemed an integral character for the core game. Vega may or may not have sold well as DLC. Like it or not, DLC needs to be attractive to players so it sells well and is worth the effort in creating it. There's no point in creating DLC that people don't want or feel meh about, since it won't sell as well.

Really, everyone crowing that "Javik should have been part of the main game!" and "Javik is integral to the lore!" is reinforcing BioWare's decision to have him as a DLC character.

Of course DLC has to be appealing and I think the ME team has done excellent work with the DLC. From Ashes is considered on par with LotSb, Omega, even though thought to be overpriced, is enjoyable, Citadel despite or even because of its goofi- and cheesiness is pretty much the best liked DLC in the entire series. Nobody says, making DLC is a  bad thing, and if BW is keeping this level of quality, people will eagerly buy the content. Even though customers complain about the ratio of price vs content compared to the core game, if well made it is well received and making appealing content is what game companies are there fore (in my opinion) and selling it is not the major issue people have with From Ashes.

What people are bothered with is that it is released the day the actual game is released. I am not entirely sure how long it really takes to get the consent of Sony and Microsoft for the core game, but selling day one content DLC always has the taste of selling a game slicewise. If  you look at it, the Citadel coup could have taken out perfectly well out of the main story line. If it was expanded a little and given more weight, this could have been made into a DLC. Same with the Tuchanka arc - to get Krogan support, you have to play the DLC, consisting of the Cerberusmission on Tuchanka, the bomb mission and the resolution of the genophage arc. Same is true for the quarian plot line. If you look at it, ME3 could easily be modularised and sold in pieces, a barebone core game with the option to get the content you like if you pay more. And that's pretty much where we are at. Ok, we have HD graphics now, we want more cineastic games, branching story lines, voice acting and all this nifty stuff which makes modern games awesome and a  potential rival to movies. This stuff is also driving production costs.

Now I guess mostpeople wouldn;t mind a moderate increase in game prices, not much higher than annual inflation rate. An increase from 60 to say, 65 $ would probably be OK with most, even if it continued the following years, as long as the curve is not too steap, many wouldn"t mind paying more. However there is one thread, where a  20 $ increase in prices was rumored. We'll see if that rumor turns out ot be true, wether it really is just for the UK where the pound has lost a lot of its value or not. At the same time, since From Ashes was well selling, I guess we will have day one DLC in the future, and from the way ME3 is set up, I guess it will not remain at just one day one DLC. Who says that BW/EA will not shorten the development time by another three months next time, take another story arc out of it and sell it the customer separately?

What people are afraid of is that essentially they will pay full price (60$) for a barebone game and actual content is sold separately. For me, day one DLC looks like a price increase through the backdoor. As stated above, even though complete engines and easier marketing and distribution make production cheaper, other factors are actually increasing production costs. New games for PC have been sold for 50 euros since, I don't know, pretty much since the euro was introduced itroduced in 2002. Nobody would mind a moderate increase, but this? Sort of through the backdoor, that you are not supposed to notice?

Edit: sorry, it is getting late over here, hope the arguement is'nt too much of a mess.

Edit2: Hmm, I think there is a fundamental problem with games in general. They appeal largely to children and young adults, students largely. These are not the people with a large spending power. Those who do have a lot of spending power, singles in a well paid job, executives, business men, researchers with a regular employment (OK, these aguys are not that rich), officials (not rich, but no fear of loosing your job, which means you have to save less since there won't be any unemployment period) probably are not that interested in video games and if they are, they do not have a lot of time to spend on them....

Modifié par Jinx1720, 30 juillet 2013 - 09:33 .

[AlanC9]

Isn't the "typical" gamer actually someone with a real job these days?

[JamesFaith]

AlanC9 wrote...

Isn't the "typical" gamer actually someone with a real job these days?

You are right.

Right now there are two generation of adult gamers so your typical gamer is more probable.

[voteDC]

I initially got Javik for free but I have bought him on the 360 and PS3 now.

Ninja Stan is right though. Would any other DLC character have sold as well as a Prothean? A member of the race that for two games previous were built up to be near gold-like.

[Nole]

AlanC9 wrote...

Isn't the "typical" gamer actually someone with a real job these days?

But of course, once I got my first paycheck, I spent all the money on video games, lol.

[AlanC9]

For me it was half games, half beer.

[psychocandy]

nevar00 wrote...

I still disagree with him being DLC in the first place. A living Prothean was vital to the lore of the game and really added to the whole theme in ME3 in the first place. He should've been in as a mandatory character while Vega or EDI as a squad mate should've been DLC in my opinion.

Javik is only vital to the lore of the game if you have  from ashes, if you dont have the dlc he isnt vital at all

your arguement can be used for any dlc wether it was created during or after a games release

[Xamufam]

Ninja Stan wrote...

voteDC wrote...

When you consider that everything about Javik except the recruitment mission itself is available via a small tweak, it does become a little hard to believe this is content developed when the main game was finished. It would seem to be far too well integrated to be post main development content.

Then again I know nothing about game design.

From Ashes was not developed only after work on the main game was completed. Because Javik was intended to be DLC, BioWare planned ahead and set the stage for his content. This gave them more options for Javik's content because he was planned for ahead of time. That's why he seemed "far too well integrated."

aren't you misleading them now? There were sound files & character design on the disc

According to finalhourofme3 documentary it was intended to be the first mission of the 3 catalyst missions, where you meet a prothean, the mission was removed from the overarching plot to be completed as post realese content.
it also says it had a domino effect in the game. that's why Javik is integrated so well

Modifié par Troxa, 02 août 2013 - 07:29 .