156 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

Elton John is dead wrote...

So a pro-templar back in DA2 couldn't get rid of Merrill (who had made a pact with a demon and was using blood magic) and had to put up with Anders for half the game (even when knowing of his plans and attacks against the Circle). Then on the other-hand these companions never turn against us even when we're doing things contrary to what they believe in. Merrill only turns at the end if you side with the templars and IIRC you can talk her out of it if you have high friendship or rivalry with her.

So I ask for options to betray companions. Let us turn that blood mage companion into a tranquil instead of being lumbered with him for the whole game as we play an anti-mage character. Let a pro-mage character imprison the templar zealot who wants all mages dead. Finding Anders' manifestos in my mansion and getting letters from him got old fast and we had to put up with it until ACT II where we could kindly tell him to **** off.

I can only imagine how annoying a DA game set in the modern time would be. We'd be getting texts and social media messages constantly from that companion we just don't want to know.

The worst part was where we could tell Cullen of Anders but nothing was done with it! Way to tease us Bioware...

Not only do I want to see that blood mage taken away from me next time but I want to see him thrashed and then tranquiled so I know he's gone for good. When I speak to him I want him to say afterwards "I am insignificent to you SIR."

on the whole:

yes, please

i would love the option (even more if you can do it over things like faith, too - i don't like the chantry and it's maker much same for most other religions (and similar things) in Thedas (and in RL, too))...i would probably not use it though (because you miss something if you do not have all the companions!)

what i would not like is:

being forced into becoming a zealot for either side (so much that the companions that like the other side will leave you by default)

i mean, i am pro-mage, but does that want to make me slaughter/kill/annihilate every templar? - no, i want them to leave mages in peace and start protecting people for real (not being glorified prison guards and slavers) or for them to disperse and the knowledge how to fight magic becoming commonly available (or a mixture: every town gets hardcore templars but every soldier can get access to the info on how they fight magic (and all mages get access to the arcane-warrior info and bloodmagic is not completely forbidden anymore, so they they are not simply cut down because any idiot can now take them on) - sounds more reasonable then becoming a zealot, does it?)

greetings LAX

[snackrat]

(Mildly spoilery)

When Isabela returns with a book (assuming she loves/hates you enough) pass her over. You terrible person.

If you're super pro-mage you can sell Fenris back to Danarius once the final confrontation occurs.
Yes really. Even if you're not pro-mage! However this is more variant by the fact Fenris - despite being the only character with his OWN THEME (which has SEVERAL VERSIONS) can be gotten rid of - or avoided altogether - in a variety of ways.
Don't even met him through Anso.
Do his quest, then part ways.
Recruit him, then delay chasing Hadrianna.
Sell him to Danarius.

Oh hey, that's a LOT. I understand why we can't get rid of Varric since he needs to be a witness just to narrate, but so many others are enforced pickups that cannot even leave, or will not leave before Act II.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 31 juillet 2013 - 09:00 .

[KiwiQuiche]

krul2k wrote...

you dont need to pick fenris up at all in DA2

But if you do, you can't get rid of them once you have them until later on. That's the issue.

[Maria Caliban]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Hanging out with an abomination or blood mage isn't reasonable.

So there isn't a single reasonable person in all of Tevinter?

I am sure there are a ton of people in Tevinter who wish their masters weren't blood mages. Particularly the various slaves being cut open to fuel spells.

[KainD]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I am sure there are a ton of people in Tevinter who wish their masters weren't blood mages. Particularly the various slaves being cut open to fuel spells.

Their opinion doesn't matter. Policy of ''the strongest survives'' has always been a reasonable stance, it's the way of nature. Blood magic and spirits/demons give power - reasonable. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Careful Kain, you gonna get loads of "how dare you not treasure every single human life" ranters after you.

[ComfortablyNumb]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

You can:

- Sell Isabela to the Qunari to become Champion

Sell? I didn't notice any selling there. Instead she was given to people, who she stolen from (and as a result of this theft lots of other people lost their lives, not to mention serious destruction of city). You have no idea how disappointed I was when i heard she escpaed... <_<

But back to OP: I don't need to have the ability to kill the companions for simply not agreeing with me. Now, if they betray my PC because of their beliefs or actively sabotage my casue - then, why not.

Otherwise I'm happy to tell them to leave, like I could in DA:O. 

Modifié par mrufka_z, 31 juillet 2013 - 01:18 .

[Sith Grey Warden]

The problem with just ignoring companions you didn't like in DA2 is they still show up at the end and act like they've always been there. Also, aren't a few companion quests mandatory? (For some reason I'm thinking of Merill's in Act 2)

[robertthebard]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

krul2k wrote...

you dont need to pick fenris up at all in DA2

But if you do, you can't get rid of them once you have them until later on. That's the issue.

Then don't?  Seriously, it's not complicated; you have an option to not recruit the character, and then complain when you choose to recruit him anyway?  Who's fault is that really?

[Sylvanpyxie]

Who's fault is that really?

Mine for not using meta-game knowledge when I'm role-playing a new character?

I've had Hawkes that didn't meet Fenris, I've had Hawkes that told Fenris to get lost, I've had Hawkes that he abandoned in Act II because of his slaver problem, I've even had a few Hawkes that handed him over to his Tevinter Magister in Act III. These weren't decisions made with meta-game knowledge, they were decisions dictated by my character's beliefs, morals and personal feelings.

Some of them simply weren't interested in the extra work that his opening quest offered. Some of them disliked his blatant hatred of magic and saw him as a possible threat to themselves or their sibling. Some of them couldn't spare the time to assist him with his problems. Some of them simply didn't think that, in the end, he was worth all that much effort.

Fenris is actually the most flexible companion in this regard. There are a boat load of ways to dump him off, at any stage in the game, and all of them open up Role-Playing opportunities for the Player.

The real problems are Merrill, Isabela, Aveline and even Varric. Heck, Anders is even more flexible in his involvement of Dragon Age 2 than these four.

Merrill can't be sent away until the final stretch of the game. I can choose to ignore her, sure. I can choose to not visit her little home, I can choose not to assist her with her crazy ass mirror, I can choose to completely disregard her entire existence.... She'll still turn up and act like she's one of the gang. Even my most devoted Anti-Blood Mage Hawkes are railroaded into accepting her recruitment and her presence in their lives.

Isabela? Can't avoid her recruitment, to my knowledge. Can't send her away in Act I.... I can't even ignore her. Know why? Because if I choose to ignore her existence she'll still turn up at my door, play bosom buddies and I won't be able to contradict the idea that we've been besties for the last two acts of the game. I am railroaded into accepting her recruitment and her presence in Hawke's life, at least until Act II comes along and Hawke's railroading into Isabela's plight is ended when she takes off with the relic (something that I can't prevent).

Varric? Can't avoid his recruitment. Can't avoid his continued presence in Hawke's life. Granted, it's less of a pain in the arse because who doesn't love Varric? CRAZY PEOPLE THAT'S WHO.... But the point is still valid - Varric's recruitment is essential and he cannot be sent away at any point in the duration of the game (that I'm aware of at least).

Aveline. Can't avoid her recruitment and can't avoid her continued presence in Hawke's life.... Believe me when I say a lot of my Hawkes had a problem with this. Lumbering this stick in the mud around? Having her continually turn up on my doorstep? Having her constantly breathing down my neck? Dear god, Nadia Hawke would've given her sword arm to get rid of Aveline. I could only lose Aveline's incredibly persistent support in the final stretch of the game.

Anders is also a forced recruitment but he has the bonus of being kickable in Act II.... However, given how controversial he is as a character - the whole Abomination with a murderous anti-Templar agenda isn't exactly my idea of a good time - a lot of my Hawkes were understandably homicidal when they learnt about his possession problem and not having the opportunity to destroy him after his little revelation was a tad game-breaking for some of them. (That's not even mentioning what his Act II quest actually entails, which causes some out of character behaviour for quite a few Hawkes)


I can understand why certain characters were forced on us, Dragon Age 2 is a party based game and I'm sure Bioware would never have heard the end of it if a Player was left without a full team of butt-kickers. I can even understand why certain, blatantly dangerous, characters were immune to my murder knife until the end of the game, mainly because they're a giant plot device....

But understanding doesn't make it any less infuriating when I'm faced with potentially dangerous companions with dangerously fanatical beliefs and I'm left unable to prevent their inevitable melt-down...

I'm not saying that the solution is to give the Player the ability to murder knife everyone in the game, but after watching Anders go nuclear on every single one of my Anti-Abomination/Anti-Mage Hawkes... After watching Merrill use her Blood Magic time after time in front of my most devoted haters of Blood Magic....

I understand that it's different strokes for different folks, and some Players have no problem what so ever using meta-game knowledge to avoid/expel unwanted party companions... But it's my opinion that Bioware need to avoid including companions with such blatantly controversial/extremist views without giving the Player the opportunity to either send them packing or end their little lives before they inevitably crash and burn.

/Opinions.


TL:DR? It's my opinion that Players shouldn't be forced to accept the recruitment of potentially dangerous characters. Whether they're assassins that just tried to kill you, blood mages who might try to kill you or abominations that might try to kill everybody.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 31 juillet 2013 - 04:32 .

[Krypplingz]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...
Isabela? Can't avoid er recruitment, to my knowledge. Can't send her away in Act I.... I can't even ignore her. Know why? Because if I choose to ignore her existence she'll still turn up at my door, play bosom buddies and I won't be able to contradict the idea that we've been besties for the last two acts of the game. I am railroaded into accepting her recruitment and her presence in Hawke's life, at least until Act II comes along and Hawke's railroading into Isabela's plight is ended when she takes off with the relic (something that I can't prevent).

You can skip her recruitment quest.
Either don't talk to her: A drunken barfighter? Better not get involved.
Say no to her quest after she asked you. She'll still be standing around at night, but you don't have to talk to her. Just walk away and don't make eyecontact with the crazy pirate. 
Say yes to her quest, but don't talk to her. She'll be gone when you return from the deep roads. 

Still it would have been nice to say no after the recruitment quest, if you tought she was simply to much baggage for your party. And to skip the flirty bit. 

TL:DR? It's my opinion that Players shouldn't be forced to accept the recruitment of potentially dangerous characters. Whether they're assassins that just tried to kill you, blood mages who might try to kill or abominations that might try to kill everybody.

Agree with your other points. 
Getting Merill out of the party roaster or into templar hands would have been nice, you are already endangering your family by covering/being a normal mage, having a blood mage hanging around (talking to your dog) could be seen as a very risky move. 

Modifié par Krypplingz, 31 juillet 2013 - 04:36 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Admittedly, I did vaguely recall avoiding Isabela on one of my incredibly early Dragon Age 2 runs, I just wasn't entirely sure if it had been my imagination or not.

I appreciate being corrected on that, thank you.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ashelsu wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Ok ok but for example we are pro-mage and we don't want fenris so we are against slavery but we sell
slave to his "owner" damn that hypocrisy unless you want free mages just because and we have to keep him to third act that same others.

Anders is as promage as you can get, and he had absolutely no problems with that. He also admires Tevinter. Appearantly for some mages slavery is ok, as long as mages are slavers.

Anders is hypocrite Fenris too but my point is that we have to be hypocrites if we don't want Fenris ,if we play as good character we have to tolerate him.Sad but diplomatic blood mage is forced to be hypocrite sometimes...

[robertthebard]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Who's fault is that really?

Mine for not using meta-game knowledge when I'm role-playing a new character?

I've had Hawkes that didn't meet Fenris, I've had Hawkes that told Fenris to get lost, I've had Hawkes that he abandoned in Act II because of his slaver problem, I've even had a few Hawkes that handed him over to his Tevinter Magister in Act III. These weren't decisions made with meta-game knowledge, they were decisions dictated by my character's beliefs, morals and personal feelings.

Some of them simply weren't interested in the extra work that his opening quest offered. Some of them disliked his blatant hatred of magic and saw him as a possible threat to themselves or their sibling. Some of them couldn't spare the time to assist him with his problems. Some of them simply didn't think that, in the end, he was worth all that much effort.

Fenris is actually the most flexible companion in this regard. There are a boat load of ways to dump him off, at any stage in the game, and all of them open up Role-Playing opportunities for the Player.

The real problems are Merrill, Isabela, Aveline and even Varric. Heck, Anders is even more flexible in his involvement of Dragon Age 2 than these four.

Merrill can't be sent away until the final stretch of the game. I can choose to ignore her, sure. I can choose to not visit her little home, I can choose not to assist her with her crazy ass mirror, I can choose to completely disregard her entire existence.... She'll still turn up and act like she's one of the gang. Even my most devoted Anti-Blood Mage Hawkes are railroaded into accepting her recruitment and her presence in their lives.

Isabela? Can't avoid her recruitment, to my knowledge. Can't send her away in Act I.... I can't even ignore her. Know why? Because if I choose to ignore her existence she'll still turn up at my door, play bosom buddies and I won't be able to contradict the idea that we've been besties for the last two acts of the game. I am railroaded into accepting her recruitment and her presence in Hawke's life, at least until Act II comes along and Hawke's railroading into Isabela's plight is ended when she takes off with the relic (something that I can't prevent).

Varric? Can't avoid his recruitment. Can't avoid his continued presence in Hawke's life. Granted, it's less of a pain in the arse because who doesn't love Varric? CRAZY PEOPLE THAT'S WHO.... But the point is still valid - Varric's recruitment is essential and he cannot be sent away at any point in the duration of the game (that I'm aware of at least).

Aveline. Can't avoid her recruitment and can't avoid her continued presence in Hawke's life.... Believe me when I say a lot of my Hawkes had a problem with this. Lumbering this stick in the mud around? Having her continually turn up on my doorstep? Having her constantly breathing down my neck? Dear god, Nadia Hawke would've given her sword arm to get rid of Aveline. I could only lose Aveline's incredibly persistent support in the final stretch of the game.

Anders is also a forced recruitment but he has the bonus of being kickable in Act II.... However, given how controversial he is as a character - the whole Abomination with a murderous anti-Templar agenda isn't exactly my idea of a good time - a lot of my Hawkes were understandably homicidal when they learnt about his possession problem and not having the opportunity to destroy him after his little revelation was a tad game-breaking for some of them. (That's not even mentioning what his Act II quest actually entails, which causes some out of character behaviour for quite a few Hawkes)


I can understand why certain characters were forced on us, Dragon Age 2 is a party based game and I'm sure Bioware would never have heard the end of it if a Player was left without a full team of butt-kickers. I can even understand why certain, blatantly dangerous, characters were immune to my murder knife until the end of the game, mainly because they're a giant plot device....

But understanding doesn't make it any less infuriating when I'm faced with potentially dangerous companions with dangerously fanatical beliefs and I'm left unable to prevent their inevitable melt-down...

I'm not saying that the solution is to give the Player the ability to murder knife everyone in the game, but after watching Anders go nuclear on every single one of my Anti-Abomination/Anti-Mage Hawkes... After watching Merrill use her Blood Magic time after time in front of my most devoted haters of Blood Magic....

I understand that it's different strokes for different folks, and some Players have no problem what so ever using meta-game knowledge to avoid/expel unwanted party companions... But it's my opinion that Bioware need to avoid including companions with such blatantly controversial/extremist views without giving the Player the opportunity to either send them packing or end their little lives before they inevitably crash and burn.

/Opinions.


TL:DR? It's my opinion that Players shouldn't be forced to accept the recruitment of potentially dangerous characters. Whether they're assassins that just tried to kill you, blood mages who might try to kill you or abominations that might try to kill everybody.

So discussion with the potential party member at the time of recruitment is metagame, gotcha.  Of all the hairbrained excuses I have heard on these forums, and believe me when I say, as a vet of the ME 3 forums, I've heard some doozies, this takes the cake.  I did not recruit Fenris on my very first playthrough because I didn't like him in the dialog.  I was trying a mage, which adds to it.  No metagame knowledge needed.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Isabela? Can't avoid her recruitment, to my knowledge.

You can, actually.  If you visit the Hanged Man at the appropriate time, she'll be there, and there's nothing you can do about her recruitment, but if you just don't visit the Hanged Man then, you won't meet her.

Still, Hawke cannot consciously choose not to associate with Isabela.  The only way to avoid her is by chance or through metagaming.

[Cainhurst Crow]

KainD wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The more freedom you have to kill or dismiss companions, the less of a role they can actually play in a story and with each other.

Bioware always finds a way if they want to. Leliana, Sten, Anders are some examples. 

Never in the same game though, which is really the only time we ever get to see them have any impact.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I just want the option to make the blood mage companion they will inevitably throw at us into a tranquil. I also want the option to make the mages against a pro-templar character into tranquils. Afterwards you find them in your base in the templar section and you get to talk to them and learn what's going on with them now.

Inquisitor to female tranquil: "I hope you're keeping the templar's beds warm."

Female tranquil: "Yes I am sir."

Templar: "Oh yeah Inquisitor. She kept me warm last night! Thanks again for the gift inquisitor. Me and my men will fight to the death for you."

Inquisitor: "Glad to hear it and no problem."

Better yet if that tranquil is the potentially recruitable blood mage. How awesome would it have been if we could have made Anders into a tranquil and then found him outside the Gallows afterwards? Just imagine that tattoo on his head and a blank expression. No more whining. Just blessed relief.

Dude. That's just ****ing creepy.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Creepy maybe but at least it's not insane like Sylvius the Mad's signature!

Karsciyin wrote...

(Mildly spoilery)

When Isabela returns with a book (assuming she loves/hates you enough) pass her over. You terrible person.

If you're super pro-mage you can sell Fenris back to Danarius once the final confrontation occurs.
Yes really. Even if you're not pro-mage! However this is more variant by the fact Fenris - despite being the only character with his OWN THEME (which has SEVERAL VERSIONS) can be gotten rid of - or avoided altogether - in a variety of ways.
Don't even met him through Anso.
Do his quest, then part ways.
Recruit him, then delay chasing Hadrianna.
Sell him to Danarius.

Oh hey, that's a LOT. I understand why we can't get rid of Varric since he needs to be a witness just to narrate, but so many others are enforced pickups that cannot even leave, or will not leave before Act II.

Isabella ****ed the city up for her selfish pursuit of gold. Getting rid of her is hardly a terrible thing to do.

Fenris is the only character who can be avoided and not recruited if you meet him. If they had extended this to the other companions then at least I would have had the feeling my character was being true to his/her cause. As it stands you end up with a pro-templar being lumbered with apostates. The pro-mage didn't really have the same problem unless you were a pro-mage against blood magic in which case you're lumbered with apostate blood mages while trying to keep hidden from the templars.

[Ryzaki]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Isabela? Can't avoid her recruitment, to my knowledge.

You can, actually.  If you visit the Hanged Man at the appropriate time, she'll be there, and there's nothing you can do about her recruitment, but if you just don't visit the Hanged Man then, you won't meet her.

Still, Hawke cannot consciously choose not to associate with Isabela.  The only way to avoid her is by chance or through metagaming.

Simply don't do her recruitment quest. Or talk to her. Her intro cutscene isn't her being recruited.

Only thing hard to avoid is seeing her introduction cutscene. After that you can completely ignore her.

that said once you start her quest you're stuck with her til act 2. But I believe you can tell her you're not helping and leave it at that. You have to avoid talking to her afterwards though.

But yeah only characters that are avoidable are Isabela and Fenris. Everyone else is forced down your throat. Fenris you can refuse multiple times (don't know why you can't do that with Isabela. You can do Fenris quest completely and drop him right at the end of his recruitement. Can't do that with Isabela for...some baffling reason).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 juillet 2013 - 08:11 .

[andy6915]

Hey Elton John is Dead? You know how I said you can't change what was said on a message board? Here's proof. You said-

"I just want the option to make the blood mage companion they will inevitably throw at us into a tranquil. I also want the option to make the mages against a pro-templar character into tranquils. Afterwards you find them in your base in the templar section and you get to talk to them and learn what's going on with them now.

Inquisitor to female tranquil: "I hope you're keeping the templar's beds warm."

Female tranquil: "Yes I am sir."

Templar: "Oh yeah Inquisitor. She kept me warm last night! Thanks again for the gift inquisitor. Me and my men will fight to the death for you."

Inquisitor: "Glad to hear it and no problem."

Better yet if that tranquil is the potentially recruitable blood mage. How awesome would it have been if we could have made Anders into a tranquil and then found him outside the Gallows afterwards? Just imagine that tattoo on his head and a blank expression. No more whining. Just blessed relief."

Look as hard as you are able, there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER that this is an evil suggestion or in any way bad. THAT is the post I quoted, THAT has colored all my impressions of you. You only called it evil after my first post calling you on it when I quoted ^that. So stop lying or trying to backpedal, it's pathetic.

Modifié par andy69156915, 31 juillet 2013 - 08:18 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

We're not talking about that but seeing as you brought it up:

Read:

"I just want the option to make the blood mage companion they will inevitably throw at us into a tranquil."

Which goes to...

"I also want the option to make the mages against a pro-templar character into tranquils."

Which changed the subject.

Going back to the blood mage in the last paragraph I use Anders as my example. In no possible way did I say I want him raped.

Now you're moving the goal post. It is indeed pathetic. Let it die and just accept you took things far too literally. People can see what I said on page three anyway. You were originally denying I called it evil at all which I proved I did (without you "calling" me out on it) in my first response to you.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 31 juillet 2013 - 08:29 .

[Angrywolves]

I doubt they'll allow players to make mages tranquil .
Some players are asking for silly things.
shrugs.