141 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jacap witcher isn't so realistic why because decent persons can be counted on the fingers in witcher alsomst everyone is psycho-rapist , and i don't said that geralt is rapist but i said that he is walkin disaster often drunk and sometimes stupid just a guy who can't handle problems even his own. Everyone is extremely stereotypical females are useless damsel in distress and ****s and mens drunken dumb bricks.I know that rape in mediaval existed and was more common that in our times but rly witcher is 2 steps rape.

[mopotter]

Also don't want a witcher type game 1) with a fixed character 2) in a universe where - as TheKomandorShepard said - women are *** and men are just as crappy in a different way. Not interested. When and if BW ever goes in this direction, I'm sure they will find people interested, it just won't be me.

Most important things for me - character creation, story and dialogue choices.

Love Skyrim. I'll probably never finish it because I have too many things to do (pc mods) from being a bard to just being a mage wondering the world. I don't need an open world if the story is great. KOTOR gave me some character choices, each game gets a bet better with the character development, had a limited world but I loved the story and dialogue.

I want a good story and my character made the way I want her or him and reacting the way I want them to. DA:O did a good job of this and so did ME1.

I want dialogue choices that reflect what I want to say, funny/snarky, nice or mean. I would like a few choices that will affect the ending so there are replay options but not every choice has to be reflected in the end and some quest can be offered just because they are there. The first time I'll do them all, after that I'll pick the ones I like for the character I'm playing.

May have gotten side tracked here. I want BioWare to do what they do best. Interesting story, interesting characters and enough choices so that each time I play a new character I find things i missed like a dialogue choice or a conversation.

[King Cousland]

Plaintiff wrote...

Don't care.

Don't comment. 

If I had to choose I'd say that I'd like choices to be more scarce but to have a much greater impact, that is to say, our actions create an actually branching story where things (be that locations, characters, choices themselves, other narrative aspects etc.) are cut off and others are opened up depending on what we've done. 

I don't think the two options are necessarily mutually exclusive, however. 

Modifié par King Cousland, 29 juillet 2013 - 03:48 .

[Ziggeh]

Roujinx94 wrote...
namely the fact that they're guaranteed to be disease-free since they can't get sick and that they're dogs, which means it's probably going to be a pleasant experience.

Well hello there, Mary Sue. 

JCAP wrote...
You can't say that the sexism in Witcher universe is a bad feature or insulting, it's just representing the reality that really existed in our world.

Firstly, it's not in our world, and so that only holds as a means of verisimilitude unless it services the plot. I can't think of any examples in The Witcher, but then I only really remember the bits that made me laugh, so I'm not the best source. 

Secondly that only applies to characters sexism, not the games.

But anyway, derails aside (defining sexism, it's deeply entertaining):
As others have said, the two elements aren't mutually exclusive. I'm also not keen on the word "deep". It's disconcertingly vague.

I would say that Skyrim makes a very similar decision to the Witcher, in that they're comfortable with their being large amounts of content the player may never see. In Skyrims case due to scale and The Witchers due to mechanical divergence.

Bioware games (perhaps more accurately, recent Bioware games) tend to strike a more efficient path, where a relatively small amount of content won't (or rather can't) be experienced, but scale and divergence are mostly implied.

Things are rarely equal, and so this is reductive, but the question we're asking could be posed as: longer or more divergent?

[elvici]

mopotter wrote...

Most important things for me - character creation, story and dialogue choices.

...

I want dialogue choices that reflect what I want to say, funny/snarky, nice or mean. I would like a few choices that will affect the ending so there are replay options but not every choice has to be reflected in the end and some quest can be offered just because they are there. The first time I'll do them all, after that I'll pick the ones I like for the character I'm playing.

Absolutely this. 

Interesting that you mention pc mods, mopotter; the lack thereof for DA2 (as compared to DAO), I honestly believe, really stymied what might otherwise have been a far richer experience for many players. When the fanbase is allowed to tweak, customize and expand their game universe, any concessions the devs have to make (in terms of story depth, or breadth of options) is largely negated - just look at what DahliaLynn alone was able to add to the experience of romancing characters in DAO.  <3


(Yes, as a modder, I know I'm prejudiced.) 

Modifié par elvici, 29 juillet 2013 - 04:36 .

[JCAP]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Jacap witcher isn't so realistic why because decent persons can be counted on the fingers in witcher alsomst everyone is psycho-rapist , and i don't said that geralt is rapist but i said that he is walkin disaster often drunk and sometimes stupid just a guy who can't handle problems even his own. Everyone is extremely stereotypical females are useless damsel in distress and ****s and mens drunken dumb bricks.I know that rape in mediaval existed and was more common that in our times but rly witcher is 2 steps rape.

This topic exists to discuss the amount of choices, not sexism so this is my last reply on the subject:

Apart from the fantasy, Witcher universe was based on medieval era. Medieval era was a dark period of human history, humanity regressed in time. All acomplishment of Roman Empire and Greeks were undone. Greeks were open minded about gays and the romans smashed the rapists balls between 2 rocks. 
Today there are still stupid people despite the free education, I saw really stupid people in universities doing and saying unbeliable stupid things. In medieval europe, where only the elite had education, wouldn't these kind of people be much more common?

I am not saying that rape would happen in every 100 meters, but it would be pretty common. Men were really sexist. Just you know, if you said that X woman was a witch, the inquisition would put her on a stake right away. I know sexist people and 1 time, I wanted to punch the face of one guy that said my cousin should be at home instead in university.

And how many times someone is raped in Witcher? I only remember 2 cases if you follow Roche path.

And Geralt is only drunk if you want him to be and I don't remember him to be helpless.

Modifié par JCAP, 29 juillet 2013 - 05:18 .

[wright1978]

While i like the witcher series a lot i prefer the previous Bioware approach of more choices as part of a player characterised protaganist approach rather than a defined protaganist you just steer.

[JCAP]

Firstly, it's not in our world, and so that only holds as a means of verisimilitude unless it services the plot. I can't think of any examples in The Witcher, but then I only really remember the bits that made me laugh, so I'm not the best source.

Witcher world was based on medieval Europe era, that's why the comparison

Secondly that only applies to characters sexism, not the games.

I didn't said Witcher was sexist, I said the world is sexist, by that, I mean the common folk there are sexist.

Things are rarely equal, and so this is reductive, but the question we're asking could be posed as: longer or more divergent?

That's not quite the correct question, Skyrim is divergent and it is long. If my question can be reformulated, it would be: Do you want more detailed story and characters or do you want more choices?


Now that I think of it, Gaider talked about this in his blog, I am gonna see if I can find it and post here

Modifié par JCAP, 29 juillet 2013 - 04:49 .

[Tootles FTW]

Infinite choices in Skyrim? You defeat Alduin and side with either the Stormcloaks or Imperial Legion, resulting in more loot and slightly varied random NPC chatter. I suppose I can choose not to enter Cave #462 to kill and pillage everything inside, but I would hardly count that as a expansive plot option.

I think major story decisions should be kept at a minimum so that resources can be allocated to making them feel really significant as you're playing the game (as opposed to just "random NPC chatter" like in Skyrim). If I choose one faction over another in a world-significant war, I would like to think I would feel the impact of that choice. Hell, even Fable 2 & 3 had this down.

[CuriousArtemis]

I'm attracted to BW's games because of the rich storytelling and characterization; making choices is important, but the "choices that matter" mantra doesn't ring much with me. I liked that Hawke could choose to be pro-mage instead of pro-templar; this was nice because it helped me build my character's personality. I don't really mind that it didn't dramatically affect the end of the story.

[TheKomandorShepard]

JCAP wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Jacap witcher isn't so realistic why because decent persons can be counted on the fingers in witcher alsomst everyone is psycho-rapist , and i don't said that geralt is rapist but i said that he is walkin disaster often drunk and sometimes stupid just a guy who can't handle problems even his own. Everyone is extremely stereotypical females are useless damsel in distress and ****s and mens drunken dumb bricks.I know that rape in mediaval existed and was more common that in our times but rly witcher is 2 steps rape.

This topic exists to discuss the amount of choices, not sexism so this is my last reply on the subject:

Apart from the fantasy, Witcher universe was based on medieval era. Medieval era was a dark period of human history, humanity regressed in time. All acomplishment that Roman Empire and Greeks were undone. Greeks were open minded about gays and the romans smashed the rapists balls between 2 rocks. 
Today there are still stupid people despite the free education, I saw really stupid people in universities doing and saying unbeliable stupid things. In medieval europe, where only the elite had education, wouldn't these kind of people be much more common?

I am not saying that rape would happen in every 100 meters, but it would be pretty common. Men were really sexist. Just you know, if you said that X woman was a witch, the inquisition would put her on a stake right away. I know sexist people and 1 time, I wanted to punch the face of one guy that said my cousin should be at home instead in university.

And how many times someone is raped in Witcher? I only remember 2 cases if you follow Roche path.

And Geralt is only drunk if you want him to be and I don't remember him to be helpless.

Often in backstory character and sometimes suggesting Ves is practically mountain of this.
If you played in first witcher some libations were unavoidable.  
True medieval was dark times of humanity but not such dark as it is shown in witcher where everything is stereotypical as i said before. Well geralt often gets owned by guards , the dragon , or villain and sometimes situation got out of his control (i mean often rly often even hawke is more oriented except dlc xD).
lack of educatuion doesn't equal ***** .

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 29 juillet 2013 - 05:04 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Infinite choices in Skyrim? You defeat Alduin and side with either the Stormcloaks or Imperial Legion, resulting in more loot and slightly varied random NPC chatter. I suppose I can choose not to enter Cave #462 to kill and pillage everything inside, but I would hardly count that as a expansive plot option.

That's a very good point; there's not a lot of choice-making in Skyrim. Nor in Dragon's Dogma, another great RPG. In fact, the games that have the most choices are BW games! Huh. 

[JCAP]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Infinite choices in Skyrim? You defeat Alduin and side with either the Stormcloaks or Imperial Legion, resulting in more loot and slightly varied random NPC chatter. I suppose I can choose not to enter Cave #462 to kill and pillage everything inside, but I would hardly count that as a expansive plot option.

You can complete someone quest, or kill them, or even stay with the quest related item instead of delivering it (skeleton key from thieves guild quest-line for example). 

And I said "almost infinite"    (maybe exagerated a bit :innocent:)

[JCAP]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

True medieval was dark times of humanity but not such dark as it is shown in witcher where everything is stereotypical as i said before.

Are you sure? 

Well geralt often gets owned by guards , the dragon , or villain and sometimes situation got out of his control (i mean often rly often even hawke is more oriented except dlc xD).

Hawke was designed to be a hero (or villain) and a badass, and he can even be a mage. Geralt is a "normal" monster hunter that happens to be famous. And each time he is owned by a guard, he owns them 100 times. 

lack of educatuion doesn't equal ***** .

I really hesitated replying after this one. Either you are trolling or you are one of those cases... so bye bye.

[mopotter]

elvici wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Most important things for me - character creation, story and dialogue choices.

...

I want dialogue choices that reflect what I want to say, funny/snarky, nice or mean. I would like a few choices that will affect the ending so there are replay options but not every choice has to be reflected in the end and some quest can be offered just because they are there. The first time I'll do them all, after that I'll pick the ones I like for the character I'm playing.

Absolutely this. 

Interesting that you mention pc mods, mopotter; the lack thereof for DA2 (as compared to DAO), I honestly believe, really stymied what might otherwise have been a far richer experience for many players. When the fanbase is allowed to tweak, customize and expand their game universe, any concessions the devs have to make (in terms of story depth, or breadth of options) is largely negated - just look at what DahliaLynn alone was able to add to the experience of romancing characters in DAO.  <3

(Yes, as a modder, I know I'm prejudiced.) 

I wish I could mod, haven't got the patience.    I play most of my games on the 360, but some, like skyrim and DA just have such nice mods that i usually end up getting a copy of the game for the pc also.  My favorite mod for DA:O was the one for romancing Ser Gilmore.  

[elvici]

mopotter wrote...

I wish I could mod, haven't got the patience.    I play most of my games on the 360, but some, like skyrim and DA just have such nice mods that i usually end up getting a copy of the game for the pc also.  My favorite mod for DA:O was the one for romancing Ser Gilmore.  

Mopotter, you are obviously a gamer of great discernment and high intellect.  <3:D

Bioware, please take note of the bolded and underlined bits quoted above.    Modding toolset = more sales (I do the same thing, btw - have Oblivion, Skyrim, DAO and DA2 for both 360 and pc).


 

Modifié par elvici, 29 juillet 2013 - 05:23 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

JCAP wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

True medieval was dark times of humanity but not such dark as it is shown in witcher where everything is stereotypical as i said before.

Are you sure? 

Well geralt often gets owned by guards , the dragon , or villain and sometimes situation got out of his control (i mean often rly often even hawke is more oriented except dlc xD).

Hawke was designed to be a hero (or villain) and a badass, and he can even be a mage. Geralt is a "normal" monster hunter that happens to be famous. And each time he is owned by a guard, he owns them 100 times. 

lack of educatuion doesn't equal ***** .

I really hesitated replying after this one. Either you are trolling or you are one of those cases... so bye bye.

So are you saying that who were bad in school or even don't go are rapists and mass murderers?
Geralt isn't a normal monster hunter he is a witcher and one of best of them and witchers aren't even humans they have abilities above them.

[JCAP]

elvici wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I wish I could mod, haven't got the patience.    I play most of my games on the 360, but some, like skyrim and DA just have such nice mods that i usually end up getting a copy of the game for the pc also.  My favorite mod for DA:O was the one for romancing Ser Gilmore.  

Mopotter, you are obviously a gamer of great discernment and high intellect.  <3:D

Bioware, please take note of the bolded and underlined bits quoted above.    Modding toolset = more sales (I do the same thing, btw - have Oblivion, Skyrim, DAO and DA2 for both 360 and pc).


 

I too hope they release a toolset :wizard:

Just look at Skyrim modders community BW, please! =]=]

[Mello]

JCAP wrote...

elvici wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I wish I could mod, haven't got the patience.    I play most of my games on the 360, but some, like skyrim and DA just have such nice mods that i usually end up getting a copy of the game for the pc also.  My favorite mod for DA:O was the one for romancing Ser Gilmore.  

Mopotter, you are obviously a gamer of great discernment and high intellect.  <3:D

Bioware, please take note of the bolded and underlined bits quoted above.    Modding toolset = more sales (I do the same thing, btw - have Oblivion, Skyrim, DAO and DA2 for both 360 and pc).


 

I too hope they release a toolset :wizard:

Just look at Skyrim modders community BW, please! =]=]

Oh god if they release a toolset I will cry with joy.

[elvici]

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

JCAP wrote...

elvici wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I wish I could mod, haven't got the patience.    I play most of my games on the 360, but some, like skyrim and DA just have such nice mods that i usually end up getting a copy of the game for the pc also.  My favorite mod for DA:O was the one for romancing Ser Gilmore.  

Mopotter, you are obviously a gamer of great discernment and high intellect.  <3:D

Bioware, please take note of the bolded and underlined bits quoted above.    Modding toolset = more sales (I do the same thing, btw - have Oblivion, Skyrim, DAO and DA2 for both 360 and pc).


 

I too hope they release a toolset :wizard:

Just look at Skyrim modders community BW, please! =]=]

Oh god if they release a toolset I will cry with joy.

JCAP and Pooh, consider yourselves hugged. 

[Roujinx94]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

JCAP wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

True medieval was dark times of humanity but not such dark as it is shown in witcher where everything is stereotypical as i said before.

Are you sure? 

Well geralt often gets owned by guards , the dragon , or villain and sometimes situation got out of his control (i mean often rly often even hawke is more oriented except dlc xD).

Hawke was designed to be a hero (or villain) and a badass, and he can even be a mage. Geralt is a "normal" monster hunter that happens to be famous. And each time he is owned by a guard, he owns them 100 times. 

lack of educatuion doesn't equal ***** .

I really hesitated replying after this one. Either you are trolling or you are one of those cases... so bye bye.

So are you saying that who were bad in school or even don't go are rapists and mass murderers?
Geralt isn't a normal monster hunter he is a witcher and one of best of them and witchers aren't even humans they have abilities above them.

Geralt was a believable character with flaws and strengths, he lost some fights and he won others, if I'm not mistaken there was only one time in the novels when he got completely trashed and it was by a mage. As for the dragon, are you honestly surprised things got out of control? Seriously? As far as I'm concerned that's how it should go, they're giant creatures that can fly, breathe fire and are at least dozens of times stronger then any human, the fact that they just stay on the ground and let you keep beating on them in DA is silly.

As for being owned by guards, the first time he was surrounded and fighting them, even if he won, it would only bring more trouble on him. The second time he was framed for regicide, you can't really do anything in that kind of situation.

JCAP wrote...

I too hope they release a toolset 

Just look at Skyrim modders community BW, please! 

Didn't they already say something along the lines of "not likely, but anything's possible"? Nowadays that's as good as a no coming from Bioware.

Modifié par Roujinx94, 29 juillet 2013 - 05:52 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Roujinx94 wrote...



Geralt was a believable character with flaws and strengths, he lost some fights and he won others, if I'm not mistaken there was only one time in the novels when he got completely trashed and it was by a mage. As for the dragon, are you honestly surprised things got out of control? Seriously? As far as I'm concerned that's how it should go, they're giant creatures that can fly, breathe fire and are at least dozens of times stronger then any human, the fact that they just stay on the ground and let you keep beating on them in DA is silly.

As for being owned by guards, the first time he was surrounded and fighting them, even if he won, would only bring more trouble on him. The second time he was framed for regicide, you can't really do anything in that kind of situation.

I don't mean literal dragon only that who is right hand of big bad and about thing what got out of control i was mean other cases.

Down that you don't have more arguments doesn't mean that someone is a troll

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 29 juillet 2013 - 06:00 .

[JCAP]

Roujinx94 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

JCAP wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

True medieval was dark times of humanity but not such dark as it is shown in witcher where everything is stereotypical as i said before.

Are you sure? 

Well geralt often gets owned by guards , the dragon , or villain and sometimes situation got out of his control (i mean often rly often even hawke is more oriented except dlc xD).

Hawke was designed to be a hero (or villain) and a badass, and he can even be a mage. Geralt is a "normal" monster hunter that happens to be famous. And each time he is owned by a guard, he owns them 100 times. 

lack of educatuion doesn't equal ***** .

I really hesitated replying after this one. Either you are trolling or you are one of those cases... so bye bye.

So are you saying that who were bad in school or even don't go are rapists and mass murderers?
Geralt isn't a normal monster hunter he is a witcher and one of best of them and witchers aren't even humans they have abilities above them.

Geralt was a believable character with flaws and strengths, he lost some fights and he won others, if I'm not mistaken there was only one time in the novels when he got completely trashed and it was by a mage. As for the dragon, are you honestly surprised things got out of control? Seriously? As far as I'm concerned that's how it should go, they're giant creatures that can fly, breathe fire and are at least dozens of times stronger then any human, the fact that they just stay on the ground and let you keep beating on them in DA is silly.

As for being owned by guards, the first time he was surrounded and fighting them, even if he won, would only bring more trouble on him. The second time he was framed for regicide, you can't really do anything in that kind of situation.

JCAP wrote...

I too hope they release a toolset 

Just look at Skyrim modders community BW, please! 

Didn't they already say something along the lines of "not likely, but anything's possible"? Nowadays that's as good as a no coming from Bioware.

I kinda remember something like that. But that could be only a rumour. The only things we can be certain about are the things that the developers themselves say. Everything else is rumour (and probably false).

Maybe we should make a petition like the one they are doing for GTA 5 to come to pc.:happy:


PS: Let's not forget that Geralt is not Dovahkin, but ignore him Rouji, I'm pretty sure he is a troll.