129 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

No.

That's a betrayal of both Narrative Causality and meaningful choices.

Modifié par David7204, 29 juillet 2013 - 10:36 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

I thought Priority Earth sucked all around, but given the amount of death in ME3 in general, I didn't think the characters were given special treatment.

[N7recruit]

David7204 wrote...

No.

That's a betrayal of both Narrative Causality and meaningful choices.

How?

[David7204]

Let me ask you a question.

Say another James Bond movie comes out in a year. It's advertised much like the rest of them. Looks like the same style.

During the movie, Bond is killed by a shot to the head by a random mook 35 minutes in during a fairly tame gunfight where it looked like he was handling himself fine a moment before. The film immediately ends. All plotlines are dropped. All questions are unanswered. Nothing is followed up on whatsoever.

What do you do think the reception to such a thing world be?

Modifié par David7204, 29 juillet 2013 - 10:51 .

[David7204]

Any of the important characters.

[justafan]

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask you a question.

Say another James Bond movie comes out in a year. It's advertised much like the rest of them. Looks like the same style.

During the movie, Bond is killed by a shot to the head by a random mook 35 minutes in during a fairly tame gunfight where it looked like he was handling himself fine a moment before. The film immediately ends. All plotlines are dropped. Nothing is followed up on whatsoever.

What do you do think the reception to such a thing world be?

Who said the characters would die unceremoniously?  Even if we go by ME2's standard, you can lose a lot of people holding the line at the very end if you ignore a lot of loyalty missions, and you only get a small cutscene, but the emotional impact still works in the end.

Also, none of the squadmates are comparable to James Bond.  Shepard is the Bond of ME.  Squadmates are like the foreign intel officers bond meets (like Felix), and the LI the bond girl, both of which are expendable for the sake of a good story.

[ShepnTali]

It's unreasonable to expect James Bond to die. It is reasonable to expect characters to die at the end of a trilogy story in ME, in a war, even if people don't like it. There's no reasonable expectation for these characters to continue forward in the franchise like James Bond.

[David7204]

No they aren't. Compare the reception of Mordin's death to the reception of Thane's. And no, it's not just about the fight with Leng.

[David7204]

ShepnTali wrote...

It's unreasonable to expect James Bond to die. It is reasonable to expect characters to die at the end of a trilogy story in ME, in a war, even if people don't like it. There's no reasonable expectation for these characters to continue forward in the franchise like James Bond.

Is that the only reason characters survive? So they can appear in sequels?

(No, it isn't.)

Modifié par David7204, 29 juillet 2013 - 10:56 .

[Tron Mega]

absolutely.

conventional victory woulda yielded lots of death.

[N7recruit]

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask you a question.

Say another James Bond movie comes out in a year. It's advertised much like the rest of them. Looks like the same style.

During the movie, Bond is killed by a shot to the head by a random mook 35 minutes in during a fairly tame gunfight where it looked like he was handling himself fine a moment before. The film immediately ends. All plotlines are dropped. All questions are unanswered. Nothing is followed up on whatsoever.

What do you do think the reception to such a thing world be?

And where did I say they should be shot randomly or killed just right out of the blue? The Low EMS senairo where Harbinger just kills them sounds more what you are complaning about. 

+ this is the last game any of these characters are ever going to be in so why should they worry that Garrus might be Dead if ME4 is 10 thousand years in the future?

What I'm saying is that they should have gotten roughed up or killed considering we are following Andersons Suicidal/Moronic plan against the FRICKING REAPERS. But No they just get out without a scratch cuz "People would be upset" Yeah right..<_< 

[ShepnTali]

David7204 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

It's unreasonable to expect James Bond to die. It is reasonable to expect characters to die at the end of a trilogy story in ME, in a war, even if people don't like it. There's no reasonable expectation for these characters to continue forward in the franchise like James Bond.

Is that the only reason characters survive? So they can appear in sequels?

(No, it isn't.)

Except we've seen characters die, both within, and without our control. James Bond has history and longevity behind it. There is nothing that suggests any given ME characters have 50+ years of adventure ahead of them.

[David7204]

Never once has a character in Mass Effect died simply for being brought on a mission.

Never.

[David7204]

N7recruit wrote...

What I'm saying is that they should have gotten roughed up or killed considering we are following Andersons Suicidal/Moronic plan against the FRICKING REAPERS. But No they just get out without a scratch cuz "People would be upset" Yeah right..<_< 

But it's A-OK for James Bond to survive all of the things he goes through? It's A-OK for him not to get shot in the head despite being fired at hundreds of times?

Modifié par David7204, 29 juillet 2013 - 11:07 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

David7204 wrote...

N7recruit wrote...

What I'm saying is that they should have gotten roughed up or killed considering we are following Andersons Suicidal/Moronic plan against the FRICKING REAPERS. But No they just get out without a scratch cuz "People would be upset" Yeah right..<_< 

But it's A-OK for James Bond to survive all of the things he goes through? It's A-OK for him not to get shot in the head despite being fired at hundreds of times?

Sure it's okay. Just not if you want to keep making James Bond movies. Or at least sequels.

[ShepnTali]

David7204 wrote...

Never once has a character in Mass Effect died simply for being brought on a mission.

Never.

So? 

Your rigid stance does not not backup a solid 'no'. What you think should be the case isn't good enough.

[David7204]

It's not what I think. It's about what logic leads to.

[N7recruit]

David7204 wrote...

Never once has a character in Mass Effect died simply for being brought on a mission.

Never.

When in mass effect have we faced the entire Reaper army directly with no means of fighting them convencionaly? The stakes are higher then ever, the enemy is stronger than ever & we are more desperate than ever but no one should die? Bring EMS & Player choice into it certainly but to rule out potiential meaningful Death/scarafices for our squadmates is silly.

[justafan]

David7204 wrote...

N7recruit wrote...

What I'm saying is that they should have gotten roughed up or killed considering we are following Andersons Suicidal/Moronic plan against the FRICKING REAPERS. But No they just get out without a scratch cuz "People would be upset" Yeah right..<_< 

But it's A-OK for James Bond to survive all of the things he goes through? It's A-OK for him not to get shot in the head despite being fired at hundreds of times?

You know what, sometimes people do need to get upset.  If you make them throw their controllers at the screen in frustration, only to go to the store 10 min. later to get a new one so they can finish the game to see what happens because they are so engrossed, then the writers did a good job.

And the James Bond comparison is flawed, he has main character of a series plot armor, and this is not Game of Thrones.

[David7204]

Squadmates being killed simply for being present on a mission are by definition not meaningful deaths.

[David7204]

James Bond does not have plot armor. Game of Thrones is not mature or better written for having lots of characters die.

This all comes down to a completely crippled and backwards way of looking at why things exist in fiction.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

David7204 wrote...

It's not what I think. It's about what logic leads to.

Pretty sure you made a comparison between killing off a companion character, on whom the narrative does not rely, to killing the main character of a decades old movie franchise that makes millions of dollars every few years relying on the name of James Bond.

Logic left the room a while ago.

[David7204]

That's ridiculous. Supposedly bad writing is justified because a series makes lots of money? No. The comparison is perfectly valid.

Modifié par David7204, 29 juillet 2013 - 11:19 .

[N7recruit]

David7204 wrote...

N7recruit wrote...

What I'm saying is that they should have gotten roughed up or killed considering we are following Andersons Suicidal/Moronic plan against the FRICKING REAPERS. But No they just get out without a scratch cuz "People would be upset" Yeah right..<_< 

But it's A-OK for James Bond to survive all of the things he goes through? It's A-OK for him not to get shot in the head despite being fired at hundreds of times?

James Bond will go on forever, he has to be in every film. The ME triliogy is ending. No more Shep, Liara, Garrus, Tali, anyone. James bond is fighting Goons, Shepard is fighting a legion of Billion year old giant imortal space Cthulhu that we cannot damage... See the differances?