It isn't so hard... First i mean that he isn't villain but he was right hand someone who was and they have very similar views simple?
And it wasn't until Meredith chose to murder the Champion in cold blood that this pathetic character actually grew enough of a pair to stand up to that raving lunatic. Thrask saw what Meredith was long before she went off the deep end in front of everyone. As close as Cullen was to her, he would've had to have seen it as well, which means he either agreed (most likely given his insane rantings at the Ferelden circle) or he is too stupid and dim-witted to see the nose on his face.
Ok we go for another sentence , many his fans use as argument that his positive trait is that he was better than some templars in kirkwall what isn't nothing difficult because templars in kirkwall were sadists.
What templars are worse than him other than Meredith herself? And Alrik? He was ready to destroy Keran for being in the exact same position Cullen himself was in at the Ferelden Circle!! How would he have liked it if Greagoir had reacted that way to him being held by blood mages? Or if the Warden had killed him simply because he "could" have been tainted by blood magic? The man is a hypocrite and emotionally unstable.
Personally, the only reason I would want him in DA:I is so I can put this horrid creature out of my misery. I find him physically, emotionally, and mentally repulsive.
It isn't so hard... First i mean that he isn't villain but he was right hand someone who was and they have very similar views simple?
And it wasn't until Meredith chose to murder the Champion in cold blood that this pathetic character actually grew enough of a pair to stand up to that raving lunatic. Thrask saw what Meredith was long before she went off the deep end in front of everyone. As close as Cullen was to her, he would've had to have seen it as well, which means he either agreed (most likely given his insane rantings at the Ferelden circle) or he is too stupid and dim-witted to see the nose on his face.
Ok we go for another sentence , many his fans use as argument that his positive trait is that he was better than some templars in kirkwall what isn't nothing difficult because templars in kirkwall were sadists.
What templars are worse than him other than Meredith herself? And Alrik? He was ready to destroy Keran for being in the exact same position Cullen himself was in at the Ferelden Circle!! How would he have liked it if Greagoir had reacted that way to him being held by blood mages? Or if the Warden had killed him simply because he "could" have been tainted by blood magic? The man is a hypocrite and emotionally unstable.
Personally, the only reason I would want him in DA:I is so I can put this horrid creature out of my misery. I find him physically, emotionally, and mentally repulsive.
Yep she was closest thing to villain in mage-templar act why because even anders was well-intentioned extremist meredith it is clear sits in that just to chop mages heads and is mad not mentioning her tyranny.Oh you will get him but if you will can kill him its question we have if we chose mage path perfect moment to end his life but game don't allow that so who knows. Well as i don't like cullen i don't think that he was alrik psycho level yeah for me he is bad guy tool but arlik is rly obviously evil no matter how you try explain that character.
The point about Keran being in the exact same position Cullen was in, and Cullen not showing any sympathy is a good one. Cullen may be a moderate but he's still unstable, definitely a bigot, and he's not as lovable as people make him out to be. Cullen rejecting a Mage PCs advances would be great IMO as it would show he's more than just a boy toy for fan girls, and actually stands up for his beliefs.
He gets his position because he understands where she's coming from. He understands why mages are dangerous, but if it were purely because he didn't disagree with her, which he does several times actually, than Alrik would have been fine as her Knight-Captain.
How did Cullen help Alrik rape anyone? He might not have even known about it let alone been involved in it. The fact that he saves mages from Meredith is evidence that he isn't involved and wouldn't condone said actions.
Many people act shy around a crush and even yes run away because they don't know how to handle it well. Consider that it's forbidden and that he is struggling with his duty and his desire on top of the fact that she propositioned him out in the open with her friends watching. It's AWKWARD.
Torture is a perfect excuse why you like to have a double standard is really your issue. It's okay if someone is tortured and rises above it, but if they happen to actually let it affect them it's somehow the worst thing ever? And who has dealt with it better? Silas actually kills his torturer, Fenris gets to kill his tormentors and Anders blows up the Chantry...how is that better than defending the people you blame for your torment?
How is he reaching Meredith's level? He stands against her, opposes the execution of mages and condemns using the Rite of Annulment! He agrees that mages need to be controlled because of his experiences. Fenris agrees as well due to his experiences. I'm not saying that they should, but they both provide evidence for why the Circle should be there just as people like Alrik and Anders provide reasons why it shouldn't.
In Cullen's case not becoming a sadist is an accomplishment. Why? Because everything around him is saying that he should. The mages he trusted betray him and torture him, then he is told that they should be protected rather than punished which I believe they should be since the issue is resolved. Then he is sent away and surrounded by people who say that you were validated in wanting the mages to be punished. The fact that he isn't immediately another Alrik IS a testament to his good character.
Alrik rly we can say many things about him and everything bad but alrik was independent type who follows his own sadistic desires , cullen was tool and no he never opposed meredith until end of game.
ehh I didn't said that cullen was helping but surly he close eyes on few things.I said that he had doubts like somone who helping A rape B he have doubts but help did that anyway.
Wait wait you comparing that somone is shy that is escapes in front of woman oh please you don't meet someone shy , shy person would be embarrassed by that but running away please that 10 years old behavior... I was shy in childhood and i know something about it i would never act like him...
No torture isn't perfect excuse to act like child why leliana gots tortured and she blame fereldens or orlesians no , silas too and sketch and many many others character had more dignity than him even zathrian in his hate.
He stand against after he killed mages opposes lol yeah he opposes the execution of mages killing them very intresting way xD. Fenris can be convinced that taking meredith side is bad choice .
Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 juillet 2013 - 05:30 .
I don't think Cullen ever completely got over his experience in the Ferelden Circle. He seems very conflicted, trying to maintain his Templar stance on blood mages, and yet, becoming more worried about Meridith's state of mind. I don't think he was a bad person, just scarred by his early life and also trying to maintain his duties as Knight Captain. I wouldn't say he was broken, but he was certainly damaged.
My theory is that he would have been forced out of the Order after Meredith's death.
Right or no, he turned on a superior officer. There's not an organization in existence that looks well on "traitors."
His superior officer was using a dangerous artifact while causing the statues around them to spring to life.
I'm rather sure if your superior turns into an abomination, you can kill them.
andy69156915 wrote...
You know, I thought Cullen was already confirmed as a companion (as was Cassandra).
No one has been confirmed as a companion.
Battlebloodmage wrote... I hope he grows out his hair, so he could whip his hair back and forth with sparkles appearing around him during his first appearance.
I would support this just because it would annoy the right people.
Modifié par Maria Caliban, 30 juillet 2013 - 06:14 .
If Cullen is in DA:I, will he still be a Templar, or will he have quit in disgust after the Meridith battle? I'm wondering if he will be able to romance an Inquisitor, or even a Mage. I like to play Mage, and am hoping there will be a chance to do that, but not if Cullen still hates/fears them. Any speculation?
In DA2, I never got the impression that he hated mages but he has every reason to fear them given his experience. I would welcome him as a potential companion in the next game simply because of how experienced he is with just how wrong magic can go.
IF Cullen is in DAI, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in some kinda trouble after Kirkwall.
Regardless of Meredith and whether that will be let go by the Templars, he let the ppl responsible for blowing up the Chantry walk.
Hawke and potentially Anders are gone. Cullen let them walk right out.
Meredith is a lyrium statue...and some like Cass and the Seekers think Hawke is responsible for...bringing the idol outta the deep roads and Meredith getting her hands on it.
Elthina has been murdered.
Cullen is the last one standing of any authority in Kirkwall. There is gonna be sum 'splainin' to do. The Templars being cool w/Cullen letting Hawke and co. swish outta town after all this is improbable.
But the truth still is we have no idea if Cullen will be in game at all. Nobody's been confirmed.
Alrik rly we can say many things about him and everything bad but alrik was independent type who follows his own sadistic desires , cullen was tool and no he never opposed meredith until end of game.
ehh I didn't said that cullen was helping but surly he close eyes on few things.I said that he had doubts like somone who helping A rape B he have doubts but help did that anyway.
Wait wait you comparing that somone is shy that is escapes in front of woman oh please you don't meet someone shy , shy person would be embarrassed by that but running away please that 10 years old behavior... I was shy in childhood and i know something about it i would never act like him...
No torture isn't perfect excuse to act like child why leliana gots tortured and she blame fereldens or orlesians no , silas too and sketch and many many others character had more dignity than him even zathrian in his hate.
He stand against after he killed mages opposes lol yeah he opposes the execution of mages killing them very intresting way xD. Fenris can be convinced that taking meredith side is bad choice .
My point still stands Meredith could have promoted Alrik since he doesn't disagree with her which was the point you were trying to make as to why Cullen was promoted. The fact being that she doesn't so Cullen could and does disagree and even opposes her on various occassions though this is often overshadowed by his last act in DA2. He keeps three mages from execution and when Meredith confronts him he says he'll take responsibility for them because he thinks that's what a templar should do. Well before the final quest I might add.
But that's what I'm getting at we don't know "surely" that he even knew let alone whether or not he turned a blind eye to it. Considering his own beliefs that mages should be protected albeit imprisoned and that he didn't rape the mage origin player....it's safe to speculate that it's unlikely that he didn't know about it. His doubts were more focused around whether Meredith was still doing the right thing and by extension the rest of the templars.
I was also shy and know plenty of shy people. At least one of them can't talk with other people outside of family and acts like a 10 year old sometimes by hiding behind her mother or walking/running away. She's luckily grown out of the more disabling effects of her shyness, but it's hardly unheard of. That and Cullen may be a bit of a prude which might account for why he was so flustered. That and the animations keep him from walking away very fast.
Leliana knows who to blame. She has a clear target, Marjolain and that Ferelden commander. As does Silas and Sketch. You'll also notice that they both get revenge on their captors providing some closure. Just about every character gets at their abuser except Cullen. He has no clear enemy and so he blames mages. Zathrian curses an entire clan of humans with something that turns them into mad beasts. It then passed to their innocent descendants who he allowed to live in pain for the majority of their lives....yeah he's dealing with it well. Hell you have to beat Zathrian down before he relents. The worst thing Cullen does before the final battle is **** A LOT. My point here being that he doesn't get any closure and up until the Annulment he doesn't kill anyone he blames for his trauma something Leliana, Fenris, Sketch, Silas, the Warden, Anders as well as many other get to do.
Cullen killing mages during the final battle is inexcusable I will admit that, but I will also mention that Anders had just blown up the Chantry and that his, for lack of a better term, hate was directed at mages. Unfortunately it was the wrong mages. Fenris trusts Hawke doesn't necessarily mean he agrees that mages should be protected. Not to mention the main source of his pain is dead and buried.
IF Cullen is in DAI, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in some kinda trouble after Kirkwall.
Regardless of Meredith and whether that will be let go by the Templars, he let the ppl responsible for blowing up the Chantry walk.
Hawke and potentially Anders are gone. Cullen let them walk right out.
Meredith is a lyrium statue...and some like Cass and the Seekers think Hawke is responsible for...bringing the idol outta the deep roads and Meredith getting her hands on it.
Elthina has been murdered.
Cullen is the last one standing of any authority in Kirkwall. There is gonna be sum 'splainin' to do. The Templars being cool w/Cullen letting Hawke and co. swish outta town after all this is improbable.
But the truth still is we have no idea if Cullen will be in game at all. Nobody's been confirmed.
My point still stands Meredith could have promoted Alrik since he doesn't disagree with her which was the point you were trying to make as to why Cullen was promoted. The fact being that she doesn't so Cullen could and does disagree and even opposes her on various occassions though this is often overshadowed by his last act in DA2. He keeps three mages from execution and when Meredith confronts him he says he'll take responsibility for them because he thinks that's what a templar should do. Well before the final quest I might add.
But that's what I'm getting at we don't know "surely" that he even knew let alone whether or not he turned a blind eye to it. Considering his own beliefs that mages should be protected albeit imprisoned and that he didn't rape the mage origin player....it's safe to speculate that it's unlikely that he didn't know about it. His doubts were more focused around whether Meredith was still doing the right thing and by extension the rest of the templars.
I was also shy and know plenty of shy people. At least one of them can't talk with other people outside of family and acts like a 10 year old sometimes by hiding behind her mother or walking/running away. She's luckily grown out of the more disabling effects of her shyness, but it's hardly unheard of. That and Cullen may be a bit of a prude which might account for why he was so flustered. That and the animations keep him from walking away very fast.
Leliana knows who to blame. She has a clear target, Marjolain and that Ferelden commander. As does Silas and Sketch. You'll also notice that they both get revenge on their captors providing some closure. Just about every character gets at their abuser except Cullen. He has no clear enemy and so he blames mages. Zathrian curses an entire clan of humans with something that turns them into mad beasts. It then passed to their innocent descendants who he allowed to live in pain for the majority of their lives....yeah he's dealing with it well. Hell you have to beat Zathrian down before he relents. The worst thing Cullen does before the final battle is **** A LOT. My point here being that he doesn't get any closure and up until the Annulment he doesn't kill anyone he blames for his trauma something Leliana, Fenris, Sketch, Silas, the Warden, Anders as well as many other get to do.
Cullen killing mages during the final battle is inexcusable I will admit that, but I will also mention that Anders had just blown up the Chantry and that his, for lack of a better term, hate was directed at mages. Unfortunately it was the wrong mages. Fenris trusts Hawke doesn't necessarily mean he agrees that mages should be protected. Not to mention the main source of his pain is dead and buried.
Of course alrik disagree with meredith and as i sad arlik is independent templar cullen is tool who agree with meredith and sorry but we can see what happens when you openly disagree with meredith you will be degraded.He never opposed her... no he keeps only hawke keeps this mages he only suggests that maybe we should do that and that mages will be made tranquil.
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Of course cullen have someone to blame uldred or that what he was so you obviously try make him super handicapped only difference is that leliana killed Raleigh but still she is not crying how ferelden hurt her nor silas and she could if she want to human noble also hold his crusade against Howe but not fereldens or others peoples except moment when you tell him that you will kill his family what is scare rather than truth and he/she is not crying despite that she/he got huge psychological bomb.Zathrian seems be full of hatred be he do that with dignity and we can convince to let his anger go.
So templars deeds in kirkwall makes Cullen at best extremely incompetent [inappropriate comments removed]
Fenris can understand his hypocrisy about freedom helping mage hawke who helps mages can or not be huge steps forward in cullen case he did nothing for mages and many thing against them.
His superior officer was using a dangerous artifact while causing the statues around them to spring to life.
Yeah, but Maria, when the other templars come to Kirkwall and start asking questions, are they really going to buy that an ancient artifact drove the Knight-Commander crazy and she unleashed powers unlike any seen on Thedas? Or are they going to focus on the part where the knight-captain refused the orders of a superior officer trying to bring the Circle in line and then killed her in concert with his mage-sympathizing accomplice?
Cullen: But I swear to you, the lyrium idol drove the Knight-Commander insane!
Templar: Ah yes, the 'lyrium idol.' The magical artifact allegedly recovered by the Champion of Kirkwall from a mysterious Deep Roads thaig completely unknown to the dwarves. We have dismissed that claim.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:52 .
There were a ton of templar witnesses to her going hopping mad. I really think they'd only have cause to kick him out if bioware really did want to give templars the Cerberus treatment.
There were a ton of templar witnesses to her going hopping mad. I really think they'd only have cause to kick him out if bioware really did want to give templars the Cerberus treatment.
Weren't there a ton of witnesses to Sovereign's attack on the Citadel?
Modifié par thats1evildude, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:12 .
There were a ton of templar witnesses to her going hopping mad. I really think they'd only have cause to kick him out if bioware really did want to give templars the Cerberus treatment.
Weren't there a ton of witnesses to Sovereign's attack on the Citadel?
Yes and they don't denied they just thought that was single case.
This thread is full of so many interesting and thoughtful opinions!!!
Considering the state of the disaster known as end-of-DAII Kirkwall and the fact that Cullen is the guy everyone will be pointing to when the question "Who's in charge here?" is asked, I think he's in a rough position.
The Chantry seems to me like the type of organization that is interested mostly in saving face. Whether they choose to back his actions and promote him or punish him severely, they won't be doing it because they have a fair and moral reason to -- they'll be doing it because it's in their best interests. Considering Lambert's assertion that all the Knight-Commanders signed his annulment, Cullen is either with the mage-hating rebel faction, pretending to be with them, or obviously never promoted to Knight-Commander..
I could see our game imports deciding which of those is the case.
I could also see a drunken, filthy, and out of shape Cullen hanging out in a tavern somewhere waiting for our Inquisitor to recruit him and bring some meaning / a chance to regain some self-respect into his life again.
Modifié par brushyourteeth, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:12 .
There was no ambiguity about Saren being disgraced and illegitimate for working with Sovereign. The only ambiguity was that they refused to believe Sovereign was an actual Reaper.
There's nothing ambiguous about Meredith having glown red and activated giant death robots. A templar organization that would still stand by her would be ridiculous.
There was no ambiguity about Saren being disgraced and illegitimate for working with Sovereign. The only ambiguity was that they refused to believe Sovereign was an actual Reaper.
There's nothing ambiguous about Meredith having glown red and activated giant death robots. A templar organization that would still stand by her would be ridiculous.
There's plenty of evidence that bad s**t went down, but it can be easily spin another way.
1.) Accounts by individual templars that Meredith had gone mad: No doubt the Knight-Commander was under a great deal of stress at the time and the burden of ruling both the city and commanding the templars had begun to wear on her. Knight-Captain Cullen's testimony should be dismissed as self-serving, as by his own admission he aided Hawke in slaying the Knight-Commander.
2.) Accounts of walking statues: Cullen was the only templar to "face" Meredith, as the others retreated. Damage to the statuary in the Gallows may be dismissed as the result of the intense battle that went on there, as the blood mages in the Circle summoned a great many demons to aid them. Given that the First Enchanter himself was obviously dabbling in the most obscene of forbidden arts, it may even be possible that the mages themselves somehow animated some of the statues to attack templars.
3.) The statue purported to be Meredith: We have other accounts of other individuals turned to stone by blood magic. As there is no evidence that this lyrium idol ever existed, we should conclude that it was Hawke himself who turned the Knight-Commander to stone by virtue of some foul magic.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:21 .
If Cullen is in DA:I, will he still be a Templar, or will he have quit in disgust after the Meridith battle? I'm wondering if he will be able to romance an Inquisitor, or even a Mage. I like to play Mage, and am hoping there will be a chance to do that, but not if Cullen still hates/fears them. Any speculation?
In DA2, I never got the impression that he hated mages but he has every reason to fear them given his experience. I would welcome him as a potential companion in the next game simply because of how experienced he is with just how wrong magic can go.
He shows his hatred for mages in his own little way
Let me roll that back a little: it is certainly plausible that there could be some kind of coverup and fog of war and general political machinations that might make Cullen a "fall guy" in what happened, yes. Just the idea that they would dismiss him with full knowledge of what happened, genuinely because of "die traitor!" instead of "you're the patsy" would be, well. Dumb, I think.
Let me roll that back a little: it is certainly plausible that there could be some kind of coverup and fog of war and general political machinations that might make Cullen a "fall guy" in what happened, yes. Just the idea that they would dismiss him with full knowledge of what happened, genuinely because of "die traitor!" instead of "you're the patsy" would be, well. Dumb, I think.
In times of war, the law falls silent.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:27 .
There was no ambiguity about Saren being disgraced and illegitimate for working with Sovereign. The only ambiguity was that they refused to believe Sovereign was an actual Reaper.
There's nothing ambiguous about Meredith having glown red and activated giant death robots. A templar organization that would still stand by her would be ridiculous.
There's plenty of evidence that bad s**t went down, but it can be easily spin another way.
1.) Accounts by individual templars that Meredith had gone mad: No doubt the Knight-Commander was under a great deal of stress at the time and the burden of ruling both the city and commanding the templars had begun to wear on her. Knight-Captain Cullen's testimony should be dismissed as self-serving, as by his own admission he aided Hawke in slaying the Knight-Commander.
2.) Accounts of walking statues: Cullen was the only templar to "face" Meredith, as the others retreated. Damage to the statuary in the Gallows may be dismissed as the result of the intense battle that went on there, as the blood mages in the Circle summoned a great many demons to aid them. Given that the First Enchanter himself was obviously dabbling in the most obscene of forbidden arts, it may even be possible that the mages themselves somehow animated some of the statues to attack templars.
3.) The statue purported to be Meredith: We have other accounts of other individuals turned to stone by blood magic. As there is no evidence that this lyrium idol ever existed, we should conclude that it was Hawke himself who turned the Knight-Commander to stone by virtue of some foul magic.
One additional thing to keep in mind is that, as of 9:40, Cassandra, Seeker of Truth and agent of the Divine, has no idea what the heck really happened in Kirkwall. If it was so easy to make a case for Meredith being the Big Bad, you'd think that Cassandra would have known. But instead, she finds out from Varric that "Meredith was to blame."
Coming back to Cullen, while there are great arguments to make that what he did was justified by military code or whatever, it seems plausible that in spite of these, he got shafted after all. I mean, he works for the Chantry and apparently no one asked him what happened. So either he lied, they didn't believe him, or they didn't ask him what happened that day. I'm really hoping DA:I tells us. Coming back to brushyourteeth's point, this then has interesting implications for whether he was promoted to Commander and whether he also "agreed" with the 14 others to break the Nevarran Accord.
One additional thing to keep in mind is that, as of 9:40, Cassandra, Seeker of Truth and agent of the Divine, has no idea what the heck really happened in Kirkwall. If it was so easy to make a case for Meredith being the Big Bad, you'd think that Cassandra would have known. But instead, she finds out from Varric that "Meredith was to blame."
Yes, exactly! The true account of what happened in the Gallows has obviously been covered up to some extent, or people just refused to believe what really happened.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:33 .
Retour en haut
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