203 réponses à ce sujet

[Parmida]

Cullen.........Cullen?...............................CULLEN!???!? OH YEAH BABY! I LOVE THE DARNED TEMPLAR SO BADLY! 
qepoasjdklanwq,swmdnlserqjr............If he is a Companion and LI I'mma die of hyperventilation, baby!
CULLEN! he makes me gasp everytime I think about him!<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

[Adela]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ag99 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...





4:57  and graveyard in gallows shows what happened only group and not all of them is that with orsino and hawke , when he turned into Harvester we can see them fleeing and perhaps that what were in city at this time (few mages we seen). Problem in that if you side with mages you can save only small group of mages and that is pyrrhic victory you gain only hope for mages.

Up yes he did with others templars i don't know if you finished DA 2 but circle is annulled.

Cullen is not even in that lil movie at 4:57 its just Meridith and a bunch of templars , sorry but it seems that you are putting  the whole templar order blame just on Cullen and not on the order it self

Facepalm you complete missed point i put this link to showed killed mages because he doesn't belive that most mages are killed. Sorry it seems that you think that cullen played in strip poker with meredith when other templars kills mages , cullen follows them to the end (almost) and is part of this order as is in that same blame as others who followed.

So if u were in the army and  some general tells you to kill a target you would refuse to do it? Also  if u were to refuse commands  you would get jail time.
Cullen was just following orders like all the other templars his not the devil you make him out to be sure he may have killed mages before but its because
1. He had that bad experience in DAO and
2. He was orderd by Meridith to do so
And if u were to side with the templars  there is a scene where he actually spares 3 mages  because he is starting to see that what Meridith does is not right  , and then  at the end he goes against Meridith , and if he will be in DAI he  would probably  have gone to jail for attacking his commander

[TheKomandorShepard]

ag99 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ag99 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...





4:57  and graveyard in gallows shows what happened only group and not all of them is that with orsino and hawke , when he turned into Harvester we can see them fleeing and perhaps that what were in city at this time (few mages we seen). Problem in that if you side with mages you can save only small group of mages and that is pyrrhic victory you gain only hope for mages.

Up yes he did with others templars i don't know if you finished DA 2 but circle is annulled.

Cullen is not even in that lil movie at 4:57 its just Meridith and a bunch of templars , sorry but it seems that you are putting  the whole templar order blame just on Cullen and not on the order it self

Facepalm you complete missed point i put this link to showed killed mages because he doesn't belive that most mages are killed. Sorry it seems that you think that cullen played in strip poker with meredith when other templars kills mages , cullen follows them to the end (almost) and is part of this order as is in that same blame as others who followed.

So if u were in the army and  some general tells you to kill a target you would refuse to do it? Also  if u were to refuse commands  you would get jail time.
Cullen was just following orders like all the other templars his not the devil you make him out to be sure he may have killed mages before but its because
1. He had that bad experience in DAO and
2. He was orderd by Meridith to do so
And if u were to side with the templars  there is a scene where he actually spares 3 mages  because he is starting to see that what Meridith does is not right  , and then  at the end he goes against Meridith , and if he will be in DAI he  would probably  have gone to jail for attacking his commander

First he still refuse commands in end (intresting only when were perspective fitght with hawke) so poor excuse.Yep i would i don't know how about you but if my supervisor was mad and demanded me to kill innocents i would refuse. He doesn't spare mages hawke do it so that deepend on hawke actions.

[schalafi]

One thing I wondered about is does a lack of Lyrium drive every Templar crazy, like some people imply? What about Samson? He didn't seem to be a raving looney or he wouldn't be able to help mages at all. Also in "On the Loose", he seemed pretty normal, so there must be a way that Templars can get over their addiction. If so, then maybe Cullen could leave the Templars and lead a normal life.

[TheKomandorShepard]

schalafi wrote...

One thing I wondered about is does a lack of Lyrium drive every Templar crazy, like some people imply? What about Samson? He didn't seem to be a raving looney or he wouldn't be able to help mages at all. Also in "On the Loose", he seemed pretty normal, so there must be a way that Templars can get over their addiction. If so, then maybe Cullen could leave the Templars and lead a normal life.

I think that is a bit exaggeration with that lack of lyrium influence yeah many templars i bet will go in totall rapage just to gain some lyrium due to lack of morals or empathy others not but samson help mages for money to get lyrium so maybe he had access. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 03 août 2013 - 06:31 .

[lord waren]

русские вы здесь есть или я один????

[LolaLei]

schalafi wrote...

One thing I wondered about is does a lack of Lyrium drive every Templar crazy, like some people imply? What about Samson? He didn't seem to be a raving looney or he wouldn't be able to help mages at all. Also in "On the Loose", he seemed pretty normal, so there must be a way that Templars can get over their addiction. If so, then maybe Cullen could leave the Templars and lead a normal life.

Well, in the Asunder novel Evangeline says that without Lyrium within a week she'd be pretty useless and then eventually start to lose her mind (I forget her exact words, though). However, I guess it really depends on how long a Templar has been using lyrium for. A prime example of a Templar that has been using lyrium for years is that one standing outside the Chantry in Denerim in DA:O, he's forgotten almost everything beyond the fact that he's a Templar, so I guess eventually all templars end up like dementia suffers. There's also another Templar locked up in Howe's dungeon, he was starved of lyrium for weeks/months and he was delirious and in a pretty bad way when the Warden finds him.

In regards to Samson, he says trying to come off lyrium damn near kills you, he asks Hawke if he/she has got any "dwarf dust" (lyrium) and he also mentions that he had been reduced to "begging for coins in the choke damp" and also helped smuggle mages out of Kirkwall in order to earn money to keep up his lyrium habit, so he was still huffing the stuff, but he probably wasn't getting a decent regular fix like he was when he was still in the Templar Order.

[schalafi]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

schalafi wrote...

One thing I wondered about is does a lack of Lyrium drive every Templar crazy, like some people imply? What about Samson? He didn't seem to be a raving looney or he wouldn't be able to help mages at all. Also in "On the Loose", he seemed pretty normal, so there must be a way that Templars can get over their addiction. If so, then maybe Cullen could leave the Templars and lead a normal life.

I think that is a bit exaggeration with that lack of lyrium influence yeah many templars i bet will go in totall rapage just to gain some lyrium due to lack of morals or empathy others not but samson help mages for money to get lyrium so maybe he had access. 

I can see that you really hate Cullen, but I think you're forgetting some of the game, regarding Templars, and especially Samson. In Wayward Son, Feynriel's father said Samson left the Templars because his concience bothered him about the way Mages were being treated. That doesn't sound like a lack of Lyrium turns them into rampaging maniacs.

[TheKomandorShepard]

schalafi wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

schalafi wrote...

One thing I wondered about is does a lack of Lyrium drive every Templar crazy, like some people imply? What about Samson? He didn't seem to be a raving looney or he wouldn't be able to help mages at all. Also in "On the Loose", he seemed pretty normal, so there must be a way that Templars can get over their addiction. If so, then maybe Cullen could leave the Templars and lead a normal life.

I think that is a bit exaggeration with that lack of lyrium influence yeah many templars i bet will go in totall rapage just to gain some lyrium due to lack of morals or empathy others not but samson help mages for money to get lyrium so maybe he had access. 

I can see that you really hate Cullen, but I think you're forgetting some of the game, regarding Templars, and especially Samson. In Wayward Son, Feynriel's father said Samson left the Templars because his concience bothered him about the way Mages were being treated. That doesn't sound like a lack of Lyrium turns them into rampaging maniacs.

Well i mean something opposite that it will change in total psychos more ruthless templars but i don't think that will have such influence that will turn in that way everyone i think that will depend on will power and on that how far they are ready go to get lyrium. Samson was one of that good templars meredith kick him out because he deliver mage message from boyfriend/family but lack of lyrium push him to junk who help mages who had money.  

[schalafi]

I guess we just have to wait and see if he's in DA:I, and if so, what kind of shape he's in.

[Todd23]

duckley wrote...

I thought that Cullen's "madness" was a rumor.
If Cullen went on a Mage killing spree would Greagoir (who seemed like a reasonable and law abiding guy) send him off to Kirkwall knowing that Meredith was kind of a crazy woman? If Cullen murdered Mages I would suspect that Greagoir would have him arrested.
I cant recall what happened in DA2 - did Cullen just kill a bunch of Mages in the end for no reason? I thought the Mages he killed were the ones attacking with Orsino.

Impossible considering the warden killed Orsino and every single one of his allies.  A few innocent mages (and maybe some sent from Orlais) were the only mages left.

[Lord Raijin]

I feel like I'm defending Cullen.

Base on what I've gathered from where your charecter aporoches Meredith and her army of Templars in the Gallows court yard (After you kill Orsino). Cullen and Carver decided that they will no longer take orders from Meredith after she orders for Hawke's execution, She gets pissed off and calls them traitors.. She also mention that she will have "both" of their heads. Which means that once you become a traitor to the Order you will not only be jailed, but also be executed.

Both Cullen and Carver was willing to take that chance because they finally woke up and smelled the coffee, and realize that they wern't serving the Order, but serving Meredith, which in earlier time Cullen had started waking up when he said that he felt that he was not serving the Order but Meredith.

[andy6915]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I feel like I'm defending Cullen.

Base on what I've gathered from where your charecter aporoches Meredith and her army of Templars in the Gallows court yard (After you kill Orsino). Cullen and Carver decided that they will no longer take orders from Meredith after she orders for Hawke's execution, She gets pissed off and calls them traitors.. She also mention that she will have "both" of their heads. Which means that once you become a traitor to the Order you will not only be jailed, but also be executed.

Both Cullen and Carver was willing to take that chance because they finally woke up and smelled the coffee, and realize that they wern't serving the Order, but serving Meredith, which in earlier time Cullen had started waking up when he said that he felt that he was not serving the Order but Meredith.

I feel like I should bring up my previous post on this. Cullen was not breaking the law by telling Meredith to shove it.

---------------------------

thats1evildude wrote...

schalafi wrote...

Heturned on Meridith because he realized that she was insane. As the second in command he had the right to tell her to step down.

Itdoesn't matter. He still turned on his own, and potentially to the defence of a mage-sympathizer. To the templars who weren't there (and even to some who were), he's a dirty traitor.

Turned on his own? You realize that just about every military in the world allows you to disobey orders if they conflict with the law, right?

http://usmilitary.ab...eyingorders.htm



"Military discipline and effectiveness is built on the foundation of obedience to orders. Recruits are taught to obey, immediately and without question, orders from their superiors, right from day-one of boot camp.

Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).

In fact, under Article 90, during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death.

Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFULorders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but
obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal."

Militaries are not okay with a superior officer giving orders that go against the law or the ethics of the organization. Cullen was absolutely in line with doing what he did, and in fact might have gotten in far more trouble with the greater Templar order or Seeker order if he hadn't disobeyed her.

Modifié par andy69156915, 03 août 2013 - 09:34 .

[Lord Raijin]

andy69156915, And I assume the URL that you submitted to us http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm is part of DA lore? Did DG said that the Templar Order was base off of United states military? If so where did he say that? If not don't compare The Templar Order with RL military because it's irrelevant.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 03 août 2013 - 09:46 .

[andy6915]

EVERY MILITARY IN HISTORY, short of complete dictatorships, have had those laws. You are not supposed to follow illegal orders, damn whoever gave them or how much higher ranked they are then you. You really think the Templars will disagree with Cullen ordering his superior to step down when she was illegally doing a right of annulment and ordering executions of people who haven't even broken the law (if you help the Templars with the ROA anyway)? You truly, honestly, don't have any freaking clue about how militaries work... Any military, not just the USA's.

[CuriousArtemis]

schalafi wrote...

One thing I wondered about is does a lack of Lyrium drive every Templar crazy, like some people imply? What about Samson? He didn't seem to be a raving looney or he wouldn't be able to help mages at all. Also in "On the Loose", he seemed pretty normal, so there must be a way that Templars can get over their addiction. If so, then maybe Cullen could leave the Templars and lead a normal life.

I don't think Samson has stopped using lyrium. I think he gets it off the Black Market (like the guy you speak to before finding Fenris).

[Lord Raijin]

andy69156915 wrote...

EVERY MILITARY IN HISTORY, short of complete dictatorships, have had those laws. You are not supposed to follow illegal orders, damn whoever gave them or how much higher ranked they are then you. You really think the Templars will disagree with Cullen ordering his superior to step down when she was illegally doing a right of annulment and ordering executions of people who haven't even broken the law (if you help the Templars with the ROA anyway)? You truly, honestly, don't have any freaking clue about how militaries work... Any military, not just the USA's.

I'm going to ignore your military responses because you're now comparing a fictional military to RL. Unless if DG can acknowledge us that the Templar Order follows the same exact rules of the united states Military I will conform to it, but for now it's irreverent and useless.

Meredith had every right to declare right of annulment during ACT 3. Can you bring up a piece of lore indicating that what she did was illegal? Anders wanted to start a war against the Templars since he arrived in Kirkwall. He took an advantage of the champion. He lied to him to collect these 'rare” ingredients to use to blow up the Chantry.  Anders wanted a war, and now he has it. He gave Meredith all the evidence she needs to delcare ROA when Anders slain the Grand Cleric.

The original intent was to arrest the champion, and to interrogate him, not to flat out execute him. Cullen examined the situation and deemed that Meredith was no longer stable to be in command, and so he had the legal right to force Meredith to step down from her position.

And yes I know a lot about military and how they work. (I guess I lied on my first sentence) You seem to be unable to know the difference between real life and fiction, and how they play under different set of rules, especially when it comes to fantasy worlds like DA.

[andy6915]

A ROA is supposed to be through the Divine or Grand Cleric, no exceptions. And it's supposed to be for good reason. An apostate who was in no way connected to the circle blowing up the Chantry can not remotely be considered the Circle's crime and thus need a ROA. So it was illegal on 2 counts.

"The original intent was to arrest the champion, and to interrogate him, not to flat out execute him. Cullen examined the situation and deemed that Meredith was no longer stable to be in command, and so he had the legal right to force Meredith to step down from her position."

That is my very point, him demoting her and then fighting her when she attempted to fight that demotion was legal and Cullen shouldn't get in trouble for it. If you agree with me, why are you arguing with me?

[duckley]

Todd23 wrote...

duckley wrote...

I thought that Cullen's "madness" was a rumor.
If Cullen went on a Mage killing spree would Greagoir (who seemed like a reasonable and law abiding guy) send him off to Kirkwall knowing that Meredith was kind of a crazy woman? If Cullen murdered Mages I would suspect that Greagoir would have him arrested.
I cant recall what happened in DA2 - did Cullen just kill a bunch of Mages in the end for no reason? I thought the Mages he killed were the ones attacking with Orsino.

Impossible considering the warden killed Orsino and every single one of his allies.  A few innocent mages (and maybe some sent from Orlais) were the only mages left.

So after the Warden killed Orsino Cullen showed up and killed the survivors?. I guess I need to replay the game because I dont remember that . 
atvany rate I still think the murdous rampage bit inthe DA epilogue had to have neen a romoir otherwise I dont think Greagoir would have sent him off.

[Todd23]

duckley wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

duckley wrote...

I thought that Cullen's "madness" was a rumor.
If Cullen went on a Mage killing spree would Greagoir (who seemed like a reasonable and law abiding guy) send him off to Kirkwall knowing that Meredith was kind of a crazy woman? If Cullen murdered Mages I would suspect that Greagoir would have him arrested.
I cant recall what happened in DA2 - did Cullen just kill a bunch of Mages in the end for no reason? I thought the Mages he killed were the ones attacking with Orsino.

Impossible considering the warden killed Orsino and every single one of his allies.  A few innocent mages (and maybe some sent from Orlais) were the only mages left.

So after the Warden killed Orsino Cullen showed up and killed the survivors?. I guess I need to replay the game because I dont remember that . 
atvany rate I still think the murdous rampage bit inthe DA epilogue had to have neen a romoir otherwise I dont think Greagoir would have sent him off.

Sorry, I mixed up Orsino with Uldred.  It's the epilogue in Origins that staits cullen gos on a killing spree.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

schalafi wrote...

I guess we just have to wait and see if he's in DA:I, and if so, what kind of shape he's in.

The leaked art for DAI already had a picture of Cullen.

[Lord Raijin]

andy69156915 wrote...

A ROA is supposed to be through the Divine or Grand Cleric, no exceptions. And it's supposed to be for good reason. An apostate who was in no way connected to the circle blowing up the Chantry can not remotely be considered the Circle's crime and thus need a ROA. So it was illegal on 2 counts.

"The original intent was to arrest the champion, and to interrogate him, not to flat out execute him. Cullen examined the situation and deemed that Meredith was no longer stable to be in command, and so he had the legal right to force Meredith to step down from her position."

That is my very point, him demoting her and then fighting her when she attempted to fight that demotion was legal and Cullen shouldn't get in trouble for it. If you agree with me, why are you arguing with me?

Are you down right telling me that right after Anders blew up the Chantry for the sole purpose to start a war against the Chantry itself that Meredith had to wait for several days (if not more) to get the OK from the divine for ROA? Please provide me the Lore that says exactly that. that Knight-Commander cannot delare ROA during an act of war unless if the divine herself gives it an ok.  That does NOT make any sense at all. This was an emergency. The Chantry was destroyed. Everyone inside parish. It's safe to say that Meredith had the upper hand, since she was the Knight-Commander. Since you know all about the military (according to you I know nothing) I would expect you to have some common sense about who takes charge if the leader dies during war.

I'm arguing with you because you insist of accusing Meredith of conducting an illegal activity when she declared ROA after the chantry was destroyed. She had every right to do so... just as Cullen had the legal right to demote Meredith for being insane.

[andy6915]

Yes, I am telling you that. A knight Commander CANNOT solely decide to do a ROA. If there was then no longer a grand cleric to authorize it, then that's Meredith's problem and she'll just have to deal with it... NOT just declare it anyway. She did not have legal right to do that, no matter how inconvenient it is.There's supposed to be checks and balances so that no Knight Commander starts going renegade and doing whatever they please without authorization.

When the Circle in DAO became a literal demonic apocalypse, the Knight Commander still needed to wait for authorization even though the situation was about as "worse case scenario" as you could get. Greagoir had to wait for authorization even though the entire Circle had become a demonic invasion, yet a blown up Chantry from a non-Circle person is grounds for an immediate one without authorization? Are you down right telling ME that? That has "illegal" written all over it.

Modifié par andy69156915, 04 août 2013 - 01:33 .

[R2s Muse]

FWIW, DG has said that the RoA was not illegal and Meredith had every right, in the absence of Elthina or the Divine, to call it. "Cullen's objection was not that her invocation of the Rite was illegal, it was that it was unjustified."

http://social.biowar...x/6901812&lf=8 about halfway down the page.

In Act 3, Ser Karras tells Hawke that Meredith has sent to Val Royeaux for the Right, presumably because Elthina wouldn't grant it to her.

[andy6915]

R2s Muse wrote...

FWIW, DG has said that the RoA was not illegal and Meredith had every right, in the absence of Elthina or the Divine, to call it. "Cullen's objection was not that her invocation of the Rite was illegal, it was that it was unjustified."

http://social.biowar...x/6901812&lf=8 about halfway down the page.

In Act 3, Ser Karras tells Hawke that Meredith has sent to Val Royeaux for the Right, presumably because Elthina wouldn't grant it to her.

Then obviously this is one of those times where word of god is wrong. In-game lore and lore from books and comics completely contradicts Gaider.