195 réponses à ce sujet

[sandalisthemaker]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

You know how Morrigan is a shapeshifter? Who do you think she learned that from? *points at Flemeth*


I'm a straight female gamer, and I think it was somewhat positive that they portrayed her as an intelligent, attractive, and powerful older female.

I addressed the shapeshifter bit in the OP.

Tell me:  Was the boob window necessary?  *Contemplates turning this into a catchphrase*

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 30 juillet 2013 - 05:30 .

[devSin]

But did that have anything to do with her appearance, or was it all David's writing and Kate's brilliant performance?

Because she didn't look like anything, beyond some facial features. She literally could have been any random townsperson.

And I would say that having her turn from a dragon into some old lady with a generic villager outfit and character creator hairdo right in front of you would have been more ridiculous than her new stylized appearance.

Should the Architect have been a standard hurlock with a hood on? Should Corypheus have been one of the goofy looking DA2 hurlocks, spinning around shooting fire around the room while shouting prayers to Dumat?

You can say that they perhaps went too far, but I don't see how you can say her having no distinct appearance whatsoever was in any way beneficial to her character (instead, it simply wasn't inappropriate for the part she played in Origins).

Modifié par devSin, 30 juillet 2013 - 05:29 .

[n7stormrunner]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ukki wrote...

In DAO Flemeth looked more intimidating, the hint of her power hidden in the form of a fragile old woman. Knowing she had rescued Warden and Alistair from the hands of the darkspawn and could keep them away from the hut indicated that she was much more powerful than she looked.

Yes. Exaclty. Her look in DAO added to her mystique more than her DA2 look ever could.  The contrast between what we saw and what we heard about her in the legends and through what Morrigan said was quite nice.

except the mental picture of swamp hag flemeth trying seduce men... thank you for bring that back by the way...

[sandalisthemaker]

devSin wrote...

But did that have anything to do with her appearance, or was it all David's writing and Kate's brilliant performance?

Because she didn't look like anything, beyond some facial features. She literally could have been any random townsperson.

And I would say that having her turn from a dragon into some old lady with a generic villager outfit and character creator hairdo right in front of you would have been more ridiculous than her new stylized appearance.

Should the Architect have been a standard hurlock with a hood on? Should Corypheus have been one of the goofy looking DA2 hurlocks, spinning around shooting fire around the room while shouting prayers to Dumat?

You can say that they perhaps went too far, but I don't see how you can say her having no distinct appearance whatsoever was in any way beneficial to her character (instead, it simply wasn't inappropriate for the part she played in Origins).

Why couldn't it have been just due to good writing and voice acting?  Flemeth's appearance could have become distinct if she had kept it.  Her hair and features might have been CC, but no one else looked like her. They could have spruced up her robes (sans boob window) if they wanted to update her appearance. 

[AtreiyaN7]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

You know how Morrigan is a shapeshifter? Who do you think she learned that from? *points at Flemeth*


I'm a straight female gamer, and I think it was somewhat positive that they portrayed her as an intelligent, attractive, and powerful older female.

I addressed the shapeshifter bit in the OP.

Was the boob window necessary?  *Contemplates turning this into a catchphrase*

Who cares about the boob window? You seem mighty fixated on one single feature of an outfit that otherwise covers Flemeth up completely. Have you bothered to look at the rest of her outfit at all???? Or is it just that you can't stop staring at that one single area that does show some skin?

Now then, have you ever watched Project Runway? Let me tell you that I have watched almost every single season, and guess what: some dresses actually have cleavage showing or have keyhole backs with a little skin showing, while everything else is covered up. This might be surprising to you, but women, on occasion, do like to have a sexy dress where some skin shows (not everything mind you, just a little hint here and there).

Also, you're ignoring the entire rest of my post in which I pointed out that Flemeth may very well have had reasons why she wanted to be recognized as Asha'bellanar and specifically chose that appearance.
 

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 30 juillet 2013 - 05:44 .

[daaaav]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

devSin wrote...

But did that have anything to do with her appearance, or was it all David's writing and Kate's brilliant performance?

Because she didn't look like anything, beyond some facial features. She literally could have been any random townsperson.

And I would say that having her turn from a dragon into some old lady with a generic villager outfit and character creator hairdo right in front of you would have been more ridiculous than her new stylized appearance.

Should the Architect have been a standard hurlock with a hood on? Should Corypheus have been one of the goofy looking DA2 hurlocks, spinning around shooting fire around the room while shouting prayers to Dumat?

You can say that they perhaps went too far, but I don't see how you can say her having no distinct appearance whatsoever was in any way beneficial to her character (instead, it simply wasn't inappropriate for the part she played in Origins).

Why couldn't it have been just due to good writing and voice acting?  Flemeth's appearance could have become distinct if she had kept it.  Her hair and features might have been CC, but no one else looked like her. They could have spruced up her robes (sans boob window) if they wanted to update her appearance. 

/facepalm

She is a shapeshifter... She adopts different appearances based on circumstance. 

And I'm sorry but I just don't fixate on the "boob window" like you are... 

Modifié par daaaav, 30 juillet 2013 - 05:48 .

[KiwiQuiche]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Dragon Age 2: "Darker, sexier, better."

Here is some DA2 concept art of Flemeth that I think looked much better than what we got.


http://mattrhodesart...ind-scenes.html

I approve of this concepts.

Her current self just makes me think she's trying way to hard to be a Final Fantasy character. :|

[devSin]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Why couldn't it have been just due to good writing and voice acting?  Flemeth's appearance could have become distinct if she had kept it.  Her hair and features might have been CC, but no one else looked like her. They could have spruced up her robes (sans boob window) if they wanted to update her appearance.

Her face is distinct, and is largely the same (to my eye, the facial structure is the same, even though they made her less gaunt and gave her new textures). I would have been upset as well if they had completely altered her face, but as far as I can tell, that's not the case.

Everything else in Origins was generic. She was using one of the generic commoner outfits (I think the dwarf or elf variant), and then the human female mage outfit for Morrigan's personal quest, and her hair was either standard or a very light variation of standard (I can't remember all the default female hairstyles).

So she should have instead looked like one of the generic DA2 peasants (I don't even remember what the updated outfits looked like, beyond all those low-res zombie NPCs)? What impression would that have possibly given beyond simple laziness?

[sandalisthemaker]

daaaav wrote...


/facepalm

She is a shapeshifter... She adopts different appearances based on circumstance. 

Yeah, Yeah. But you realize that this goes against shapeshifting lore, right?  
Morrigan tells you that shapshifters can't change their  human appearance and explains why if you ask her.  
But meh, Flemeth may very well be above such laws of magic, so who knows.

[Blackrising]

I generally don't mind sexy women in media. Hell, it's never a bad thing to have something appealing to look at.
I do, however, agree with OP about much of Flemeth's change being unnessecary.

I can understand that she's incredibly powerful and wants to look the part. I can also understand that an appealing appearance goes a long way in making people more pliant to your demands.
An attractive person WILL have an easier time getting others to do their bidding...and well, generally.
So I don't oppose to Flemeth's good looks in general, but I think it could have been handled better. The boob window was unnecessary. A longer outfit wouldn't have made her less attractive.
The thing about women like Flemeth and Meredith...etc. is that they don't need skimpy outfits to be sexy. Their power (whether physical, mental, political...etc.) is what makes these women sexy.
I found Meredith incredibly sexy, not despite but because she was decked out in full-body armor. It screamed power.

So whenever a videogame pushes a powerful woman's cleavage and/or half-naked thigh in my face (shh you know what I mean), I feel like they're trying too hard to appeal to horny, straight, teenaged boys. (Sorry for the generalization, I'm just not sure how else to word it.)

It's just like "LOOK. BOOBS. THIGHS. SEXAY AMIRIGHT?"
And I can't help but imagine some douchebag sitting in front of the TV, grinning sleazily and high-fiving his dudebro while commenting on her various assets.

Now THAT breaks my immersion.

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, it does kinda tell where Morrigan got her fashion sense from; her default outfit in DAO was hilariously inappropriate.

[sandalisthemaker]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Well, it does kinda tell where Morrigan got her fashion sense from; her default outfit in DAO was hilariously inappropriate.

You mean that women who live in cold, wet environments generally don't spend their lives traipsing about nearly topless?

[Bionuts]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

The Desire Demon is hot because she's powerful. Powerful people are attractive. Dominant people are attractive. They put your inhibitions to rest.

A guy would let Lady of the Forest, Morrigan, Desire Demon, Lara Croft, etc., do whatever they wanted. You can't say the same for some average woman you meet at work.

Power=hot

All of those women also have their boobs on full display.
Is Aveline hot then? She's powerful.

Aveline had some hot moments. Like when she threatened the merchant, or when she mader the guard scared. However, the game portrays her as weak a bit too much. They could have shown more moments where she takes control.

This is hot:





A powerful woman that noboy messes with. Else you get your brains smashed in with a pickaxe.

Modifié par Bionuts, 30 juillet 2013 - 06:05 .

[KiwiQuiche]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Well, it does kinda tell where Morrigan got her fashion sense from; her default outfit in DAO was hilariously inappropriate.

You mean that women who live in cold, wet environments generally don't spend their lives traipsing about nearly topless?

Lol pretty much. That and living in woodlands mean nice, thorny plants and wearing a towel for a shirt really isn't common sense. More of "n case you forget she's female" thing.

[Blackrising]

Bionuts wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

The Desire Demon is hot because she's powerful. Powerful people are attractive. Dominant people are attractive. They put your inhibitions to rest.

A guy would let Lady of the Forest, Morrigan, Desire Demon, Lara Croft, etc., do whatever they wanted. You can't say the same for some average woman you meet at work.

Power=hot

All of those women also have their boobs on full display.
Is Aveline hot then? She's powerful.

Aveline had some hot moments. Like when she threatened the merchant, or when she mader the guard scared. However, the game portrays her as weak a bit too much. They could have shown more moments where she takes control.

This is hot:





A powerful woman that noboy messes with. Else you get your brains smashed in with a pickaxe.

There's also other kinds of power. Political...etc.

[Star fury]

Bioware absolutely didn't need Flemeth's sexualization, but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers. It doesn't serve any meaning in regards to story and it diminishes Flemeth's personality.

[KiwiQuiche]

Blackrising wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

The Desire Demon is hot because she's powerful. Powerful people are attractive. Dominant people are attractive. They put your inhibitions to rest.

A guy would let Lady of the Forest, Morrigan, Desire Demon, Lara Croft, etc., do whatever they wanted. You can't say the same for some average woman you meet at work.

Power=hot

All of those women also have their boobs on full display.
Is Aveline hot then? She's powerful.

Aveline had some hot moments. Like when she threatened the merchant, or when she mader the guard scared. However, the game portrays her as weak a bit too much. They could have shown more moments where she takes control.

This is hot:





A powerful woman that noboy messes with. Else you get your brains smashed in with a pickaxe.

There's also other kinds of power. Political...etc.

Political power means jack in a physical fight.
"Don't you stab me, or I'll raise your taxes!"

[Fredward]

I think "sexification" is a bit much. But I don't like the redesign either. Or the other concepts all that much. But that's probably because I would have placed the emphasis on mystery not power. A hooded figure with locks of silver hair spilling out and gleaming yellow eyes kinda thing. Cliche I know but I'm much more enthralled by the mystery of Flemeth than I am at her potential power.

[n7stormrunner]

Star fury wrote...

Bioware absolutely didn't need Flemeth's sexualization, but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers. It doesn't serve any meaning in regards to story and it diminishes Flemeth's personality.

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

[KiwiQuiche]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Bioware absolutely didn't need Flemeth's sexualization, but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers. It doesn't serve any meaning in regards to story and it diminishes Flemeth's personality.

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

People typically wear things they are comfortable with, what they like best or what they think reflects their personality,

[Vapaa]

Star fury wrote...
but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers.

Yeah, of course, they will appeal to the male gamers by giving and boob window (because boob windows totally doesn't exist on regulars robes anyone can by, that would be outrageous) to a character that appears for roughly 5 minutes, while Aveline who sticks with Hawke for the entire game is a square-jawed tough woman in full-armor

Strangely no one complains of the fanservice when it's male characters, I mean just look at Varric's clevage, if he was female, FOX news would've flipped over

[KiwiQuiche]

Vapaa, it's a difference since Varric was that from the get-go. Flemeth wasn't and was just changed for "hurr boobs" since we'll apparently forget she's female unless we have visual confirmation of boobs.

And seriously, point out a male character who's dressed as stupidly as Isabela or something. That would be fan service equality.

[n7stormrunner]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Bioware absolutely didn't need Flemeth's sexualization, but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers. It doesn't serve any meaning in regards to story and it diminishes Flemeth's personality.

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

People typically wear things they are comfortable with, what they like best or what they think reflects their personality,

ok and the boob window says something bad about her personality? what about the rest of the outfit little has been said about that?

[KiwiQuiche]

n7stormrunner wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Bioware absolutely didn't need Flemeth's sexualization, but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers. It doesn't serve any meaning in regards to story and it diminishes Flemeth's personality.

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

People typically wear things they are comfortable with, what they like best or what they think reflects their personality,

ok and the boob window says something bad about her personality? what about the rest of the outfit little has been said about that?

I'm of the opinion the entire outfit is stupid but the wtf hair takes the cake.

Like I said, it's over the top, like they are trying to stuff her into Final Fantasy. It's weird in a DA setting since it's so FF in terms of style.

[Star fury]

n7stormrunner wrote...

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

The new outfit she wears and big boobs kinda affects her personality.