195 réponses à ce sujet

[n7stormrunner]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Bioware absolutely didn't need Flemeth's sexualization, but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers. It doesn't serve any meaning in regards to story and it diminishes Flemeth's personality.

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

People typically wear things they are comfortable with, what they like best or what they think reflects their personality,

ok and the boob window says something bad about her personality? what about the rest of the outfit little has been said about that?

I'm of the opinion the entire outfit is stupid but the wtf hair takes the cake.

Like I said, it's over the top, like they are trying to stuff her into Final Fantasy. It's weird in a DA setting since it's so FF in terms of style.

which final fantasy I remember a few diffent styles.

[Vapaa]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Vapaa, it's a difference since Varric was that from the get-go. Flemeth wasn't and was just changed for "hurr boobs" since we'll apparently forget she's female unless we have visual confirmation of boobs.

Flemeth was always a seductive man (and daughter)-killer, and it's just a boob undow for crying at lound, her breasts aren't even especially big, and there isn't any focus and them in the camera angles (like Miranda's rear...ugh)

KiwiQuiche wrote...
And seriously, point out a male character who's dressed as stupidly as Isabela or something. That would be fan service equality.

Varric, again
But Varric and Isabella are rogues, specifically Varric is a marksman rogue and Isabella a stealthy rogue so their outfits are ok given their battle roles

I have personally more of a problem with Fenris's combat leggins, at first I even though he was a mage-ish rogue

[n7stormrunner]

Star fury wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

I'm going to regret this

what does what she's wears have to do with her personity? that didn't change she still acts like a crazy old bat

The new outfit she wears and big boobs kinda affects her personality.

how?

[Star fury]

Vapaä wrote...

Star fury wrote...
but probably marketing team thought that would appeal to it's main audience - male gamers.

Yeah, of course, they will appeal to the male gamers by giving and boob window (because boob windows totally doesn't exist on regulars robes anyone can by, that would be outrageous) to a character that appears for roughly 5 minutes, while Aveline who sticks with Hawke for the entire game is a square-jawed tough woman in full-armor

Strangely no one complains of the fanservice when it's male characters, I mean just look at Varric's clevage, if he was female, FOX news would've flipped over

Yeah, tell me that Isabela "who sticks with Hawke for the entire game" is not fanservice too. 

Flemeth is one the most important characters in DA universe and I fail to see any reason to make her "hotter". 

[devSin]

Vapaä wrote...

Strangely no one complains of the fanservice when it's male characters, I mean just look at Varric's clevage, if he was female, FOX news would've flipped over

Because Varric's jacket is open all the way. Anyway, that forest needs sunlight to grow.

The only real issue I have with Flemeth is that it's a little purposeful sliver out of an outfit that covers everything else (from toe to chin, shoulders to fingertips). I don't think it's necessarily gratuitous, but I can't imagine any reason for it to be there other than to accentuate her breasts (maybe they tried it fully covered and it didn't look feminine enough or something).

I don't think it's obscene; it's merely mystifying. But the new appearance is distinctive, like I said, and I think it's generally well done (I do like the concept of her new design a bit more than it comes across in the game, though that's a combination of textures, the animations, and the model detail, and I feel the same way for most character models). I more or less liked it, though to me, her voice and writing are what define her, so appearance is only a distant concern to begin with.

Modifié par devSin, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:11 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Vapaä wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Vapaa, it's a difference since Varric was that from the get-go. Flemeth wasn't and was just changed for "hurr boobs" since we'll apparently forget she's female unless we have visual confirmation of boobs.

Flemeth was always a seductive man (and daughter)-killer, and it's just a boob undow for crying at lound, her breasts aren't even especially big, and there isn't any focus and them in the camera angles (like Miranda's rear...ugh)

KiwiQuiche wrote...
And seriously, point out a male character who's dressed as stupidly as Isabela or something. That would be fan service equality.

Varric, again
But Varric and Isabella are rogues, specifically Varric is a marksman rogue and Isabella a stealthy rogue so their outfits are ok given their battle roles

I have personally more of a problem with Fenris's combat leggins, at first I even though he was a mage-ish rogue

Flemeth looks like some crazy hobo witch in DAO, which she is. Then she pulls a Final Fantasy, look at my weird-ass hair and 20-year-old body route in DA2. But then DA2 failed in numerous regards.

Are you going into angrish, or are you just tired?

...Varric is in no way dressed as badly as Isabela and I have no idea how you can think so. Neither is Fenris. They at least wear pants, Fenris has armour (despite the spikes; what is he gonna do, brood someone to death?) and Varric has thick leather. Isabela struts about with boots and a shirt that leaves her arms, chest and thighs completely exposed.

[Vapaa]

Star fury wrote...
Yeah, tell me that Isabela "who sticks with Hawke for the entire game" is not fanservice too.

She's the token fanservice girl, but my point is why would they used Flemeth for fanservice where she almost doesn't appear at all ? what about Aveline, of Meridith, of Meril, or, or...?

Star fury wrote...
Flemeth is one the most important characters in DA universe and I fail to see any reason to make her "hotter". 

Now her look match a her personality: a powerful, flamboyant and intimidating creature, her old hag look in DAO didn't do her justice

Filament wrote...
Uhh it would be a pretty tame outfit by feminine attire standards in games

No, Varric's clevage is relly wide, he was almost entirely bare-chested

Modifié par Vapaä, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:16 .

[ThisIsZad]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

You are being too sensitive here. All I could think of when I saw Flemmeth is how majestic, if she looks like an old hag after turning back into a dragon, I wouldn't be impressed



Her appearance in DAO is more like a deception, and in DA2, it's her actual look. Can't a woman be both pretty and powerful? This seems to be pretty nitpicking at this point. Although if the purpose is to attract straight males, there are better ways of doing it instead of appeal of a small groups of guys who are into old women. You also seem to forget about Meredith, who is a knight-commander. A powerful figure who dresses in full armor.

WELL SAID!

[devSin]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Flemeth looks like some crazy hobo witch in DAO, which she is. Then she pulls a Final Fantasy, look at my weird-ass hair and 20-year-old body route in DA2. But then DA2 failed in numerous regards.

See, I think the hair was one of the smartest decisions (along with the headpiece—that has really become a defining element for them to use for the Witches).

A lot of her features are there to parallel the dragon form. She's not human, and although I think this is far more flair than David would have ever considered (I think his description was basically plain, wizened old crone), I don't see how it's inappropriate for her to have a more alien appearance, with hair/horns and gauntlets/claws.

Some people may prefer realism over the more stylized, but I think I get some of what they were going for, and I think they did an overall good job with it. And just like the Architect and Corypheus, I think it does an excellent job in distinguishing exactly who and what she is.

As for the body comment, I don't think that's fair criticism. There's nothing lascivious there, except perhaps as part of your own perception (again, in Origins, she was using a generic body—the same as every single other female character with the same outfit in the entire game, no older or younger than any of them).

Modifié par devSin, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:33 .

[Boycott Bioware]

The fact that (within the timeline of the game) she "chose" to look like this for Hawke and then went back to her wrinkled old woman form for her final meeting with the Warden is just bizarre when you think about it.

I agree with this...Flemeth look in DA2 is a nonsense, immersion breaking, sexualized, and not fit the original story. It just want to satisfy some people sexual fantasy i think

It is good if Flemeth show up the same like in DA:O, maybe a little different attire, dragon-like robe, or dragon staff, in front of Hawke. That fitting her.

DA2 is just...weak attempt

[Vapaa]

Filament wrote...

Still, though, I doubt there would be any real outrage as long as the taboo bits were covered by cloth, pasties, etc.

You think ? given what I read in this thread about the boob window being the very embodiement of evil....

[KiwiQuiche]

devSin wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Flemeth looks like some crazy hobo witch in DAO, which she is. Then she pulls a Final Fantasy, look at my weird-ass hair and 20-year-old body route in DA2. But then DA2 failed in numerous regards.

See, I think the hair was one of the smartest decisions (along with the headpiece—that has really become a defining element for them to use for the Witches).

A lot of her features are there to parallel the dragon form. She's not human, and although I think this is far more flair than David would have ever considered (I think his description was basically plain, wizened old crone), I don't see how it's inappropriate for her to have a more alien appearance, with hair/horns and gauntlets/claws.

Some people may prefer realism over the more stylized, but I think I get some of what they were going for, and I think they did an overall good job with it. And just like the Architect and Corypheus, I think it does an excellent job in distinguishing exactly who and what she is.

As for the body comment, I don't think that's fair criticism. There's nothing lascivious there, except perhaps as part of your own perception (again, in Origins, she was using a generic body—the same as every single other female character with the same outfit in the entire game, no older or younger than any of them).

I'm just of the opinion they went overboard with "crazy shapeshifter from mars" and I think she just looks funny and weird rather than "mysterious and magistic" or whatever the hell David wanted.

The default female body in DA is boobilicious.

[Ieldra]

As I see it, Flemeth's new look matches more closely what she is: a more-than-human, powerful and mysterious woman with a strong presence. Her appearance on Sundermount in DA2 is one of the scenes I'm always looking forward to.

I don't see why anyone would take issue with her changed appearance. She looks attractive and perfectly healthy as a "demigoddess" would if she so chose, but fanservice aspects, if any, are really minor. Primarily, she radiates power and mystery, sexuality is far behind.

[KiwiQuiche]

Filament wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

Filament wrote...

Still, though, I doubt there would be any real outrage as long as the taboo bits were covered by cloth, pasties, etc.

You think ? given what I read in this thread about the boob window being the very embodiement of evil....

I mean media outrage, of course. This is just Tuesday for the BSN.

Stay classy BSN.<3

[Cutlass Jack]

The key is to remember here is that we've never seen what Flemeth really looks like. She's an abomination and a shapeshifter. She can look like whatever she wants to look like.

In DAO she assumed the appearance of a harmless old woman who lived in a swamp. She was trying to look like someone no one would think twice about. Unless you attacked her. Then she looked like a dragon.

In DA2 she wasn't at her house. She was putting on a show. For effect. She wasn't trying to hide. And also looked like a dragon when attacking.

One should also take into account Morrigan and how she dressed. In outfits given to her by Flemeth.

Finally its worth pointing out that if you still dont buy her over the top hot storybook sorceress look, remember who's telling the tale. And what that same storyteller did to Bethany's chest.

[devSin]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I'm just of the opinion they went overboard with "crazy shapeshifter from mars" and I think she just looks funny and weird rather than "mysterious and magistic" or whatever the hell David wanted.

But don't you also have to level this criticism against the Architect? It's nothing at all like David described; I'd say even more over-the-top than Flemeth.

But he seems to get a pass. He's just as stylized and awkward, and his design is just as effective (people knew what Corypheus was after seeing him in a screenshot before Legacy even came out because the look is so distinctive).

Flemeth is also stylized, and yes, it's a lot different than the Plain Jane realism of Origins (but everything in Origins was "do-nothing"—other than monsters, Morrigan, and the Lady, there were no stylized models or distinctive appearances for any of the characters). That's not to say it's necessarily good (I think it is, but I'm not a critic), and you certainly don't have to like it, but I don't think the purpose was to sexualize her appearance, and I think it's well done besides (the look is distinct, and if Yavana is anything to judge by, it has been effective).

And more importantly, her face seems to have retained its features (unless I've always just been projecting Kate Mulgrew onto the Origins face model, which is a possibility, I suppose), and the acting is just as extraordinary and the writing just as Davidy. She's still Flemeth in all the ways that matter, even if she did get a redesign.

Modifié par devSin, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:01 .

[KiwiQuiche]

devSin wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I'm just of the opinion they went overboard with "crazy shapeshifter from mars" and I think she just looks funny and weird rather than "mysterious and magistic" or whatever the hell David wanted.

But don't you also have to level this criticism against the Architect? It's nothing at all like David described; I'd say even more over-the-top than Flemeth.

But he seems to get a pass. He's just as stylized and awkward, and his design is just as effective (people knew what Corypheus was after seeing him in a screenshot before Legacy came out because the look is so distinctive).

Flemeth is also stylized, and yes, it's a lot different than the Plain Jane realism of Origins (but everything in Origins was "do-nothing"—other than monsters, Morrigan, and the Lady, there were no stylized models or distinctive appearances for any of the characters). That's not to say it's necessarily good (I think it is, but I'm not a critic), and you certainly don't have to like it, but I don't think the purpose was to sexualize her appearance, and I think it's well done besides (the look is distinct, and if Yavana is anything to judge by, it has been effective).

Didn't buy the DLCs.

[Bionuts]

How in the world is this sexual? Most women show some cleavage every now and then. It's only human to want a little attention from strangers.

[KiwiQuiche]

Flemeth isn't human.

Now I'm getting mental images of her in her hut and doing the sewing and sticking all those nonsensical metal studs on her shirt thing.

[ShaggyWolf]

I'd like to raise a couple points:

1. Maybe Flemeth likes displaying a little skin? Our experience with the character in the games is so limited, and it's so clear that she's constantly manipulating everyone's perception of her. She's an impossible person to summarize and understand. I wouldn't presume to know the first thing about her goals or preferences.

2. I'm pretty sure writers like David Gaider get to voice their input on character designs, and possibly even reject concepts altogether. Even if that's not the case, they at least know exactly who/what Flemeth is and can convey that to the artists that get to design her, meanwhile it's a relative mystery to us. Therefore, I'd say they probably know best how Flemeth should or shouldn't look.

My opinion is that Flemeth looked great in DA2 and I think the look suits her, especially since I suspect she's actually an old god (or uber dragon) and not an abomination-hag.

And since the topic has come up, I also love Morrigan's outfit in DA:O because it's so freaking hawt. Also when I click Morrigan to add her to my group on the party select screen she shoots purple fire out of her hands. Purple. Fire. I don't think a damp and chilly climate would be a problem for someone who can conjure purple fire. Morrigan's also my favorite dragon age character by far so whatever she does is basically golden in my book

Anyway, that's my 2 copper

Modifié par Valadras21, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:34 .

[wwwwowwww]

tbh it's never really been that important to me, major name in the game, but not so much a major player. Don't care if she looks like J-lo or Hellen Mirren