195 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

Also, I find it hilarious how they re-used so much crap yet they had time to make a different dragon model for Flemeth that shows up for only thirty seconds.

[Star fury]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Flemeth looks like some crazy hobo witch in DAO, which she is. Then she pulls a Final Fantasy, look at my weird-ass hair and 20-year-old body route in DA2. But then DA2 failed in numerous regards.

Pretty much.

[Sister Goldring]

Well, I don't care about her leather studded look, I mean she's a full grown woman, she can deck herself out in tinsel if she (or the artists more accurately) want.

I just love her character and that seemed to transition from games pretty seamlessly to me. I thought she was great, her voice actor was amazing and her dialogue was suitably mysterious.

The only thing that really struck me about her redesign was how beautiful her face was and as Flemeth was supposed to be at one time an extraordinarily beautiful woman, I didn't think that aspect of the redesign was out of keeping with her character.

So I guess I'm just unashamedly pro Flemeth, hag version, jaw dropping version, so long as she's there it's good.  

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 30 juillet 2013 - 08:56 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Sister Goldring wrote...

Well, I don't care about her leather studded look, I mean she's a full grown woman, she can deck herself out in tinsel if she (or the artists more accurately) want.

I just love her character and that seemed to transition from games pretty seamlessly to me. I thought she was great, her voice actor was amazing and her dialogue was suitably mysterious.

The only thing that really struck me about her redesign was how beautiful her face was and as Flemeth was supposed to be at one time an extraordinarily beautiful woman, I didn't think that aspect of the redesign was out of keeping with her character.

So I guess I'm just unashamedly pro Flemeth, hag version, jaw dropping version, so long as she's there it's good.  

...really could have done without that mental image to be honest.

[n7stormrunner]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Sister Goldring wrote...

Well, I don't care about her leather studded look, I mean she's a full grown woman, she can deck herself out in tinsel if she (or the artists more accurately) want.

I just love her character and that seemed to transition from games pretty seamlessly to me. I thought she was great, her voice actor was amazing and her dialogue was suitably mysterious.

The only thing that really struck me about her redesign was how beautiful her face was and as Flemeth was supposed to be at one time an extraordinarily beautiful woman, I didn't think that aspect of the redesign was out of keeping with her character.

So I guess I'm just unashamedly pro Flemeth, hag version, jaw dropping version, so long as she's there it's good.  

...really could have done without that mental image to be honest.

as long as it's da 2 flemeth I ok with it, da: o would be.... excuse me while I go look for some brain bleach

[Star fury]

Vapaä wrote...
She's the token fanservice girl, but my point is why would they used Flemeth for fanservice where she almost doesn't appear at all ? what about Aveline, of Meridith, of Meril, or, or...?

Or Bethany, or Isabela as even YOU admitted, or Leandra. Merrill is too gigglesquee tbf.

Now her look match a her personality: a powerful, flamboyant and intimidating creature, her old hag look in DAO didn't do her justice

She looks like a ****.

No, Varric's clevage is relly wide, he was almost entirely bare-chested

Do you have a thing for "Varric's clevage"?

[Sister Goldring]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

...really could have done without that mental image to be honest.

Sorry.

You mean the tinsel thing right....I REALLY hope you meant the tinsel thing 

[Star fury]

Vapaä wrote...

You think ? given what I read in this thread about the boob window being the very embodiement of evil....

Care to provide quotes or you're just WUMing?

[Nightdragon8]

Valadras21 wrote...

I'd like to raise a couple points:

1. Maybe Flemeth likes displaying a little skin? Our experience with the character in the games is so limited, and it's so clear that she's constantly manipulating everyone's perception of her. She's an impossible person to summarize and understand. I wouldn't presume to know the first thing about her goals or preferences.

2. I'm pretty sure writers like David Gaider get to voice their input on character designs, and possibly even reject concepts altogether. Even if that's not the case, they at least know exactly who/what Flemeth is and can convey that to the artists that get to design her, meanwhile it's a relative mystery to us. Therefore, I'd say they probably know best how Flemeth should or shouldn't look.

My opinion is that Flemeth looked great in DA2 and I think the look suits her, especially since I suspect she's actually an old god (or uber dragon) and not an abomination-hag.

And since the topic has come up, I also love Morrigan's outfit in DA:O because it's so freaking hawt. Also when I click Morrigan to add her to my group on the party select screen she shoots purple fire out of her hands. Purple. Fire. I don't think a damp and chilly climate would be a problem for someone who can conjure purple fire. Morrigan's also my favorite dragon age character by far so whatever she does is basically golden in my book

Anyway, that's my 2 copper

pretty much this,

she is a shapshifter, and we don't know if human is her 'real' form.  I bet if she wanted to she could shape shift into a 20yo hottie. cause I don't see her getting men to follow her in her DA:O state.

[KiwiQuiche]

I bet Flemeth's true form is a Broodmother.

She just chooses a human form so she doesn't have to pay for all the extra bras.

[Bionuts]

*enters Victoria's Secret*

Broodmother: Child please. Youngens can't handle alllll of this..

[n7stormrunner]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I bet Flemeth's true form is a Broodmother.

She just chooses a human form so she doesn't have to pay for all the extra bras.

great now I have the mental picture of the mother with hag flemeth's face.... and I have to go to bed shortly... if I have nightmares it's your fault

[KiwiQuiche]

n7stormrunner wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I bet Flemeth's true form is a Broodmother.

She just chooses a human form so she doesn't have to pay for all the extra bras.

great now I have the mental picture of the mother with hag flemeth's face.... and I have to go to bed shortly... if I have nightmares it's your fault

I live to please.

[Das Tentakel]

sandalisthemaker wrote...


Okay, so we are all familiar with the drastic changes made to Flemeth's character model from DAO to DA2.   
Observe:
 
The haggard, wild-haired, wrinkled old woman of DAO.  This look fit her eccentric, giant ham-with-a-deadly-undercurrent vibe perfectly. I tend to excuse her curvaceous, enormous-breasted body as a result of limited resources, since every female has the same body (Although that the default female body looks this way is another matter entirely).


And here: her DA2 incarnation, complete with cleavage. She also shows a bit of thigh-skin to boot.

Now one can argue that Flemeth is a shapeshifter, and chose to appear before Hawke and co. in this manner in order to display her power through a more imposing form, ( I was fine with the horn hair, for example, and thought it served to cement her draconic vibe).  However, this line of thought just comes across as a convenient excuse for the art team to sexify her.  Sure, she still has some wrinkles around her eyes, but her face is otherwise smooth, and her jaw no longer shows even a hint of sagging skin. Then there is the cleavage.  Was that really necessary? 

The fact that (within the timeline of the game) she "chose" to look like this for Hawke and then went back to her wrinkled old woman form for her final meeting with the Warden is just bizarre when you think about it.

Flemeth may not even be human at all. She seems to be shaping up to be an all-powerful Eldritch Abomination whose machinations can never be fully comprehended.  Does she really need to be cheapened in such a manner? Can't she be allowed to be a powerful, important female character without being sexy?  

So my hope for DA:I is that she appears more similar to her DAO form. Flemeth is a powerful, intimidating, intelligent, and  manipulative chess master. It is these qualities, and not her cleavage, that need to be enhanced.

Based on the reactions here and elsewhere, I doubt this will happen. Sexy Flemeth has hit a nerve among at least a substantial and vocal part of the 'core fanbase', and anyway, sex sells. What's better than power or sex? Power AND sex. And so it was written.

In this respect, one of the more interesting (and one of the better) characters in DA2 was Avelline, who combined plain looks and a plausible female warrior physique (big and strong). Regardless of the fact that she's a bit of a Brienne of Tarth clone (or 'homage' if you prefer), the introduction of a character like that was a sign of progress. 
Flemeth's look was a throwback to fantasy cliché land, but things like her and Isabella were probably inevitable. For PR / marketing purposes, you need stuff like that. For all the talk about increasing numbers of older and female gamers, most of the marketing effort still seems to be aimed at young males. So for every Avelline or Meredith we'll get a DA2-style Flemeth and an Isabella. 



'You're an old and manipulative schemer just like Flemeth. So why don't you dress in sexy armour like her? It'll look hot!



                                                                       'Eep!'

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 30 juillet 2013 - 10:07 .

[abnocte]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

*snip*

she is a shapshifter, and we don't know if human is her 'real' form.  I bet if she wanted to she could shape shift into a 20yo hottie. cause I don't see her getting men to follow her in her DA:O state.

If she could shapeshift into a 20 year hottie why would she need to use her daugthers as vessels for her essence?

In DA:O it is clearly said, it is the reason Morrigan asks you to kill her mother...

Valadras21 wrote...
My opinion is that Flemeth looked great in DA2 and I think the look
suits her, especially since I suspect she's actually an old god (or uber
dragon) and not an abomination-hag.

My particular take is that Flemeth  is an old god whose essence is trapped in a human body, and thats why she ages and uses her daugthers as vessels, so she does not die.
Lets remember that the archdemon soul can posses a darkspawn body when its original form is killed in a very familiar fashion to what Morrigan explains Flemeth has been doing all these centuries...




More on topic:

Morrigan clearly states in DA:O that she cannot shapeshift into another human. So I personally discard shapeshifting as a answer to Flemeth redesign.

I personally prefer her DA:O incarnation but because I'm of the opinion that there's no more dangerous enemy that the one that does not look dangerous.

I'm curious to see what they have done with Flemeth in DA:I

[Bionuts]

Well... I'm sure there are many things Flemeth can do that Morrigan cannot.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Star fury wrote...

Now her look match a her personality: a powerful, flamboyant and intimidating creature, her old hag look in DAO didn't do her justice

She looks like a ****.

The idea that a woman wearing women's clothing with a smidgen of cleavage makes her an automatic **** to you is frightening. I'm surprised nobody has pointed this out, yet.

[Ianamus]

My only major problem with the new flemeth design is that cleavage window.

I mean... why? 

I know someone on the first page mentions that she never actually acts suggestively, but then that only begs the question of why she would want to dress seductively at all. 

Modifié par EJ107, 30 juillet 2013 - 12:32 .

[Vapaa]

Star fury wrote...
Or Bethany, or Isabela as even YOU admitted, or Leandra. Merrill is too gigglesquee tbf.

None of those are played for fanservice, Isabella is, not not only for fanservice, Flemeth isn't played for fanservice either, I didn't even noticed her boob window, I was fixated on the "hairns" (and that look in her eyes *shivers*)

Star fury wrote...
She looks like a ****.

No she doesn't

Star fury wrote...
Do you have a thing for "Varric's clevage"?

It bugs me, I just want to yell "what if you take an arrow in the knee chest, you crazy dwarf ?"
It's also a great exemple to show that fanservice goes both was in Bioware games

Modifié par Vapaä, 30 juillet 2013 - 12:47 .

[Ieldra]

EJ107 wrote...
My only major problem with the new flemeth design is that cleavage window.

I mean... why? 

I know someone on the first page mentions that she never acts suggestively, but then that begs the question of why she would want to dress seductively at all. 

Seductively? DA2 Flemeth looks pretty normal to me in that regard. Walk through any city in the western world, or consider a half dozen different types of female noble clothing in DA2, and you'll see lots of the same kind of exposure, and nobody calls it seductive. If Flemeth is attractive, the reason lies far more in her power and mystery than in her outfit.

I have more of an issue with the fact that her outfit is supposed to be armor, which really should have an extra layer of protection for the vitals rather than cleavage. But then, she's a shapeshifter with a dragon form, so she's one of the very few characters I give a free pass in my eternal crusade for more "dressing for the occasion" in video games. 

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Maybe they are just trying to make her become a GILF xD

[Ianamus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
My only major problem with the new flemeth design is that cleavage window.

I mean... why? 

I know someone on the first page mentions that she never acts suggestively, but then that begs the question of why she would want to dress seductively at all. 

Seductively? DA2 Flemeth looks pretty normal to me in that regard. Walk through any city in the western world, or consider a half dozen different types of female noble clothing in DA2, and you'll see lots of the same kind of exposure, and nobody calls it seductive. If Flemeth is attractive, the reason lies far more in her power and mystery than in her outfit.

I have more of an issue with the fact that her outfit is supposed to be armor, which really should have an extra layer of protection for the vitals rather than cleavage. But then, she's a shapeshifter with a dragon form, so she's one of the very few characters I give a free pass in my eternal crusade for more "dressing for the occasion" in video games. 

It's true that you see a lot of young women wearing outfits that show off their body, but how many elderly women do you see wearing outfits revealing their cleavage or thighs? 

The only reason to wear an outfit, particuarly one that is supposedly armour, that leaves those areas exposed is for sex appeal. And for a character like Flemeth who is an elderly and incredibly powerful witch sex appeal makes no sense at all. 

Modifié par EJ107, 30 juillet 2013 - 12:52 .

[Star fury]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

The idea that a woman wearing women's clothing with a smidgen of cleavage makes her an automatic **** to you is frightening. I'm surprised nobody has pointed this out, yet.

Old woman has a cleavage, her outfit showing boobs and thighs, thus she looks dumb and like a ****. If that is idea is friggtening one to you, so be it. DA2 Flemeth already is a gerontophile bait.     

http://social.biowar...index/5148696/1

http://social.biowar...ndex/17005720/1

[Star fury]

Vapaä wrote...

None of those are played for fanservice, Isabella is, not not only for fanservice, Flemeth isn't played for fanservice either, I didn't even noticed her boob window, I was fixated on the "hairns" (and that look in her eyes *shivers*)

All this was done in order to cater to male gamers and to provide fanservice. 

Vapaä wrote...
No she doesn't

Yes she does.

Vapaä wrote...

It bugs me, I just want to yell "what if you take an arrow in the knee chest, you crazy dwarf ?"
It's also a great exemple to show that fanservice goes both was in Bioware games

If you think that "Varric's cleavage" is a fanservice for female gamers, you're horribly wrong.