53 réponses à ce sujet

[Enigmatick]

Fiddles dee dee wrote...

I don't care what anyone says. These guys are married.

I still want a sitcom with these two

[Volus Warlord]

Enigmatick wrote...

Fiddles dee dee wrote...

I don't care what anyone says. These guys are married.

I still want a sitcom with these two

One and a half men?

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

That's one of the things that annoy me about the Chantry. We see little actual bigotry, aside from the mage-hating and the sexist discrimination against men regarding priesthood. Yet it's obviously based on medival Christianity, complete with the martyred saviour figure, church structure and a pope.

I mean, come on. Every real-life religion with more than a couple million followers has SOME laws against partaking in worldly pleasures, ranging from sex out of wedlock to drinking alcohol or eating specific types of meat. That's how religions work, they tell you how to live your life. The Chantry is way too modern for a medival world like Thedas, still stuck in the age of feudalism with kings, nobles and peasants.

Modifié par Spaghetti_Ninja, 01 août 2013 - 08:52 .

[Warden661]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Do we even see marriage in general?

City elf origin.

[Plaintiff]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Do we even see marriage in general?

The Human Noble's parents and brother are married.

Aveline was married to Wesley, and then married Donnic.

The Warden delivers news of dead husbands to their wives.

Justice inhabited the deceased body of a married man in Awakening.

We see the beginning of a wedding in the City Elf origin.

Arl Eamon and Isolde are married.

Bann Teagan marries in the epilogue of DA:O

The parents of Emile de Launcet are married.

There's probably more.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 août 2013 - 09:40 .

[Plaintiff]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Enigmatick wrote...

Fiddles dee dee wrote...

I don't care what anyone says. These guys are married.

I still want a sitcom with these two

One and a half men?

Which one of them is only half a man?

[Plaintiff]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

That's one of the things that annoy me about the Chantry. We see little actual bigotry, aside from the mage-hating and the sexist discrimination against men regarding priesthood. Yet it's obviously based on medival Christianity, complete with the martyred saviour figure, church structure and a pope.

I mean, come on. Every real-life religion with more than a couple million followers has SOME laws against partaking in worldly pleasures, ranging from sex out of wedlock to drinking alcohol or eating specific types of meat. That's how religions work, they tell you how to live your life. The Chantry is way too modern for a medival world like Thedas, still stuck in the age of feudalism with kings, nobles and peasants.

It's a fantasy. Social and technological development are not intrinsically linked.

[sandalisthemaker]

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Enigmatick wrote...

Fiddles dee dee wrote...

I don't care what anyone says. These guys are married.

I still want a sitcom with these two

One and a half men?

Which one of them is only half a man?

He might consider both of them to be 3/4 man each. You never know.

[Am1vf]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

That's one of the things that annoy me about the Chantry. We see little actual bigotry, aside from the mage-hating and the sexist discrimination against men regarding priesthood. Yet it's obviously based on medival Christianity, complete with the martyred saviour figure, church structure and a pope.

I mean, come on. Every real-life religion with more than a couple million followers has SOME laws against partaking in worldly pleasures, ranging from sex out of wedlock to drinking alcohol or eating specific types of meat. That's how religions work, they tell you how to live your life. The Chantry is way too modern for a medival world like Thedas, still stuck in the age of feudalism with kings, nobles and peasants.

Well, I hear there was a time when people could marry just with two witnesses and some sort of contract (it could even be a painting signed by the artist, the couple and the two witnesses). It was somewhere near the end of the middle ages that the Church decided they wanted to be in every important moment of everyone's life.

Maybe the Chantry has their hands full with apostates and the like, the same way we don't see the similar of vaptism or coming of age rituals people are alowed more freedom when marrying?

Anyway, although in a society in which marriage is used as political contract (arranged marriages) with the purpose of having children the concept gay marriage doesn't make much sese, I would be very much in favor of DA including gay marriage just because there is not enough of that in games.

[Thomas Andresen]

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

One and a half men?

Which one of them is only half a man?

That was my question as well.

[Plaintiff]

Am1_vf wrote...
Anyway, although in a society in which marriage is used as political contract (arranged marriages) with the purpose of having children the concept gay marriage doesn't make much sese, I would be very much in favor of DA including gay marriage just because there is not enough of that in games.

Well, there are political reasons for marriage besides producing heirs.

[Am1vf]

Plaintiff wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
Anyway, although in a society in which marriage is used as political contract (arranged marriages) with the purpose of having children the concept gay marriage doesn't make much sese, I would be very much in favor of DA including gay marriage just because there is not enough of that in games.

Well, there are political reasons for marriage besides producing heirs.

In theory maybe, but considering that a marriage used to be considered null if the couple had no child it makes it hard to defend political gay marriages.

But this is a fantasy setting, if the concept of marrying for love exists I don't see why they couldn't have gay marriages.

[AutumnWitch]

Funny you mention this... I just finished a DA2 run the other day and I was thinking to myself....That even though my femHawke and Merrill rode into the sunset the Hawke line would be in danger of ending. I hope Carver finds a cute young thing and has many munchkins to fill my old estate house as Hawke left him the estate in Kirkwall. (That's my story and I am sticking to it!)

[dragondreamer]

AutumnWitch wrote...

Funny you mention this... I just finished a DA2 run the other day and I was thinking to myself....That even though my femHawke and Merrill rode into the sunset the Hawke line would be in danger of ending. I hope Carver finds a cute young thing and has many munchkins to fill my old estate house as Hawke left him the estate in Kirkwall. (That's my story and I am sticking to it!)

There's also Charade!  It's my headcanon that my Hawke left the Amell estate to her before he ran off with Fenris.  

[CuriousArtemis]

Make it happen, BW  

It's too bad DA appeared on the scene back in 2009 (and was conceived of obviously much earlier); I'm sure if DA had appeared in the year 2013 we would have had a better chance of seeing gay relationships treated equally to straight ones in Thedas.

I find it so lazy when today's (as in, the last couple years or so) writers impliment traditional sexism and homophobia and racism into their fantasy narratives. 

Modifié par motomotogirl, 01 août 2013 - 11:18 .

[The Hierophant]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

One and a half men?

Which one of them is only half a man?

That was my question as well.

Wade.

[sandalisthemaker]

The Hierophant wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

One and a half men?

Which one of them is only half a man?

That was my question as well.

Wade.

Care to enlighten us as to what his other half might be?

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 01 août 2013 - 11:38 .

[The Hierophant]

Wade's a manchild.

[In Exile]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...
I mean, come on. Every real-life religion with more than a couple million followers has SOME laws against partaking in worldly pleasures, ranging from sex out of wedlock to drinking alcohol or eating specific types of meat. That's how religions work, they tell you how to live your life. The Chantry is way too modern for a medival world like Thedas, still stuck in the age of feudalism with kings, nobles and peasants.

There are lots of religions (thought not modern words) that don't have anything to do with restraining wordly pleasures. Just because our apparently succesful ones took this bent doesn't mean that Thedas has any reason to do so. And it's clearly an alternate history medieval period. 

[andy6915]

Harren is the half man, Wade clearly wears the pants in that relationship. Harren says "NO! No don't make armor from dragon scales" Wade says "Haha Harren, I will make the armor right now right now. You jelly?". When Wade decides he's going to do something, Harren can only sigh and go with it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andy69156915 wrote...

Harren is the half man, Wade clearly wears the pants in that relationship. Harren says "NO! No don't make armor from dragon scales" Wade says "Haha Harren, I will make the armor right now right now. You jelly?". When Wade decides he's going to do something, Harren can only sigh and go with it.

If and only if its sufficiently important. The usual arrangement is the exact opposite.

[Das Tentakel]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

That's one of the things that annoy me about the Chantry. We see little actual bigotry, aside from the mage-hating and the sexist discrimination against men regarding priesthood. Yet it's obviously based on medival Christianity, complete with the martyred saviour figure, church structure and a pope.

I mean, come on. Every real-life religion with more than a couple million followers has SOME laws against partaking in worldly pleasures, ranging from sex out of wedlock to drinking alcohol or eating specific types of meat. That's how religions work, they tell you how to live your life. The Chantry is way too modern for a medival world like Thedas, still stuck in the age of feudalism with kings, nobles and peasants.

Well, every Abrahamic religion. Some religions are fairly hands-off regarding how people should live, as long as you honour the gods, ancestors etc. For instance, regarding the pagan Roman Empire, it is often said that if you wanted guidance on living a good life, you would go to a philosopher, not a priest. Everyday social life was determined by existing societal norms with no or limited religious influence, and laws based on them.

Having said that, I get your meaning, Thedas sounds like a modern western liberal’s dream in several respects, but it wears the skin (albeit tattered and painted over) of medieval Europe. There’s a ‘dissonance’ between what people know, or think they know, about how medieval Europe (and perhaps other historical societies) operated and the surprisingly liberal and unproblematic nature of pseudo-medieval Thedas.
Other fantasy settings that directly borrowed from medieval Europe (Ars Magica, Warhammer Fantasy, The Witcher) tend to keep closer to the original source material, and there’s less ‘dissonance’ that way.

Back to marriage, in ‘traditional’ societies a formal marriage (either in the form of a more or less formalised ‘secular’ ceremony or a religious one) has as its primary purpose not so much procreation (you don’t need a marriage for that) as regulating the transfer of property: Between the families of the bride and bridegroom, and between parents and children.
Homosexual/bisexual behaviour is almost invariably something outside marriage* (not too different from a loving heterosexual relationship between, say, a ruler and a beloved, steady mistress next to his wife. The wife is for the legitimate heirs and politics, the mistress is the actual love interest).
In societies where homosexual / bisexual relationships were reasonably normal (like ancient Greece), male / male or female / female lovers did not marry, though they might have a more or less openly acknowledged and even semi-formalised relationship (like the elite soldiers of the ‘Sacred Band’ of classical Thebes, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes ).

Maybe BioWare will stick out their necks and introduce, say, an Orlesian knightly Order along the lines of the Theban Sacred Band? .

* (There are some exceptions though, as with ‘third sex’/ transgender people who, if I remember correctly, can marry members of their biological sex in some traditional societies. But I think that's conceptually different from marriage between two people who are both biologically and formally / legally of the same sex)

[Lilaeth]

Am1_vf wrote...

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

That's one of the things that annoy me about the Chantry. We see little actual bigotry, aside from the mage-hating and the sexist discrimination against men regarding priesthood. Yet it's obviously based on medival Christianity, complete with the martyred saviour figure, church structure and a pope.

I mean, come on. Every real-life religion with more than a couple million followers has SOME laws against partaking in worldly pleasures, ranging from sex out of wedlock to drinking alcohol or eating specific types of meat. That's how religions work, they tell you how to live your life. The Chantry is way too modern for a medival world like Thedas, still stuck in the age of feudalism with kings, nobles and peasants.

Well, I hear there was a time when people could marry just with two witnesses and some sort of contract (it could even be a painting signed by the artist, the couple and the two witnesses). It was somewhere near the end of the middle ages that the Church decided they wanted to be in every important moment of everyone's life.

.

Way back after WWI, one of my great aunts was married like that - she and her fiancee 'stood up' in front of witnesses and affirmed their commitment to live together as man and wife.  And they had a wedding certificate stating that this was how they were married.  It might even still be legal where I live, I'm not sure.  I suspect same sex couples could do this in Thedas.  Apart from the inheritance thing, no-one seems too bothered about other peoples' sex lives.  If only our world was the same!

Modifié par Lilaeth, 02 août 2013 - 09:18 .

[Fredward]

Why is it important? In RL there are actual tangible social benefits to being married and excluding same sex couples excludes them from those benefits. In Thedas where systematic discrimination at that level doesn't (presumably) exist I see no reason to get married. If married couples in Thedas even get social benefits. The emphasis on marriage in Thedas would probably be baby-making. 'Specially among noblility. Like a contract stating "you will only have babies with THIS guy."

So no, I don't think there is same sex marriage in Thedas but not because there is active discrimination but because it's not necessary.