20 réponses à ce sujet

[henesua]

Using neverblender (and several other trusty tools) I am extending Six's Wildland's tileset with some groups for the sea terrain, and the dock/pier crossers.

I like that the water is walkable, but noticed something weird. The footstep ripples do not appear on the water mesh, but instead show up on the ground mesh of the sea tiles. This could be the WOK mesh since the ground mesh and the WOK mesh are at the same height. All of the materials are set as I want them on the WOK mesh. So this is definitely walkable water.

Question:
How do you indicate which mesh the ripples should appear on?

Modifié par henesua, 30 juillet 2013 - 07:42 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<radiating...>

As I understand it, the ripple effect is placed at the location of the model origin (0,0,0), so it will always be applied to the WOK.

Could be wrong, though...

<...from the origin>

[Rolo Kipp]

<watching the topic...>

Speaking of interesting impact effects from the surfacemat.2da...
Where is the StoneBridge material used and what exactly does the fx do? It *looks* like it emits small stone chunks (complete with mass 1 and bounce) from under the bridge... But I couldn't find a tile that uses this material (introduced in HotU patch).
Anyone know?

<...expand like ripples on a... heh>

[Michael DarkAngel]

I could be wrong, but it sounds like the wrong mesh is linked to the tile's animation dummy.


 MDA

[henesua]

Michael DarkAngel wrote...

I could be wrong, but it sounds like the wrong mesh is linked to the tile's animation dummy.

I'll figure out what that means soon enough.

I plan on comparing six's wildlands water terrain with tom banjo's swamp and rosenkrantz's immersive swamps. both of those seem to get ripples in the right places if I recall correctly.

With regards to the stone bridge material that Rolo asked about above, MDA. Did you use such a thing in your city bridge extension to TCN?

[Michael DarkAngel]

henesua wrote...

Michael DarkAngel wrote...

I could be wrong, but it sounds like the wrong mesh is linked to the tile's animation dummy.

I'll figure out what that means soon enough.

Look at the way everything is linked to the modelbase.  Everything should be linked to the modelbase, with at the very least one exception.  That being the mesh that is your water plane.  That mesh should be linked to an animation dummy such as "tilename"_a (replace "tilename" with your tile's name, of course).

henesua wrote...

With regards to the stone bridge material that Rolo asked about above, MDA. Did you use such a thing in your city bridge extension to TCN?

No I didn't.  I want to say the reason I didn't is because at the time the newer walkmesh materials were not part of nwMax.  And if that's not the case, then I just don't remember why I didn't


 MDA

[_six]

IIRC ripples appear 1 metre higher than the walkmesh? In Wild Woods, which has really shallow water, they appear above the water plane.

Rolo Kipp wrote...

Where is the StoneBridge material used and what exactly does the fx do? It *looks* like it emits small stone chunks (complete with mass 1 and bounce) from under the bridge... But I couldn't find a tile that uses this material

The TNO road over sea cliffs uses it as I recall.

[Rolo Kipp]

<measuring...>

That reinforces my impression that they are base-applied fx. The 1m offset is probably built into the splash fx, so it should be possible to define a new "shallow water" material, a new "shallow splash" fx and have the ripple appear in the right place.
Edit: fx_step_splash has no offset for the emitter. So it is being positioned by the engine when applied (via a "detonate" trigger, incidently. Odd.). Next thing to look at is what is the engine using to determine height? The Z of the first vertex of a water plane?

Will peek at the sea cliffs today :-)
Edit: Curiouser and curiouser. I have now looked at all the 1.69 patch & HotU set files and can not see StoneBridge material used in any of them. The fx_step_stbrdg does indeed drop small chunks of stone, so it would be a subtle add to ruins or old stone bridges... 

Would be very interested in finding a tile this was used on. 
Or seeing what happens if someone does a quick TNO01_g01 (series) override to test it :-)

<...difficulty>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 31 juillet 2013 - 04:40 .

[Zwerkules]

Rolo Kipp wrote...

<measuring...>

That reinforces my impression that they are base-applied fx. The 1m offset is probably built into the splash fx, so it should be possible to define a new "shallow water" material, a new "shallow splash" fx and have the ripple appear in the right place.
Edit: fx_step_splash has no offset for the emitter. So it is being positioned by the engine when applied (via a "detonate" trigger, incidently. Odd.). Next thing to look at is what is the engine using to determine height? The Z of the first vertex of a water plane?

Will peek at the sea cliffs today :-)
Edit: Curiouser and curiouser. I have now looked at all the 1.69 patch & HotU set files and can not see StoneBridge material used in any of them. The fx_step_stbrdg does indeed drop small chunks of stone, so it would be a subtle add to ruins or old stone bridges... 

Would be very interested in finding a tile this was used on. 
Or seeing what happens if someone does a quick TNO01_g01 (series) override to test it :-)

<...difficulty>

I tested this with my rural tileset which has rivers with depth ranging from about half a meter to 1.5 meters and the splash effect is always at the right height, so the engine must have a way to tell where the top of the water mesh is. It also works for very shallow puddles. I've also made some rapids where the water is flowing downhill and the top of the water mesh doesn't always have the same height and it still works, more or less because the splash effect is not parallel to the ground.

The StoneBridge material is used for the stone bridges that you can place across sea cliff terrain in the TNO tileset. Why were you looking for a material in the set file?


Edit: A walkmesh face that uses material id 6 (walkable water) has to be completely below the water mesh. In Sixes wildlands tilesets some of the faces at the edge of the water are half inside the walter and half outside of it.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 31 juillet 2013 - 08:15 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<just not...>

Ok, Walk me through this.

I ran a road across the TNO cliffs to make the bridges:

I tested this in game and got no fx for falling chunks walking across.

Opened explorer to look at the tiles (tno01_g01+ series):

and their WOK (ascii):


Nowhere do I see a StoneBridge material defined or assigned.

On an off-chance I thought I'd check the set files (all of them) to see if a Stone Bridge terrain type had been defined:


So what tile is using this and how can I 1) test it myself in game and 2) see the material applied in explorer? Or Max?

<...seeing it>

[henesua]

What about the other bridges, Rolo? The ones that look natural?

As far as seeing the material, I'd just search all the WOKs for the correct material index. With notepad++ you can do a batch find on all files in a folder. Don't know if these were compiled though....

[henesua]

Zwerkules wrote...
Edit: A walkmesh face that uses material id 6 (walkable water) has to be completely below the water mesh. In Sixes wildlands tilesets some of the faces at the edge of the water are half inside the walter and half outside of it.

But the sea tiles which only have three meshes water, ground, and aabb, it still doesn't work.

So my question: how does one do this correctly?

I assume that you need an empty with filename+"a".
And in this group is the mesh for the water plane.

What aurora properties do I attach to the water plane?
What aurora properties do I attach to the filename+"a" mesh?

[Rolo Kipp]

<trying hard...>

henesua wrote...
What about the other bridges, Rolo? The ones that look natural?

Tile name helps :-P Not sure which ones you're talking about...

As far as seeing the material, I'd just search all the WOKs for the correct material index.
With notepad++ you can do a batch find on all files in a folder. Don't know if these were compiled though....

Yeah, that finds quite a few "RockBridge" materials (didn't see *that* one defined), but they seem to all be applied to solid structures (no space underneath for the chunks to fall through).

No "StoneBridge" though. And the WOKs are not compiled. Just dumped the whole shebang in my "Ripples" folder and searched all 3K+ WOKs in the 1.69 patch :-P

<...not to obsess>

[Zwerkules]

@Henesua: The animation node is just a dummy without any properties.
Depending on the tileset you need to activate 'rotate texture' for the water plane.

@Rolo: Look at tno01_v11_01 for example or any similar tiles. Look at the WOK with a text editor and you'll see material 22 used for many of the faces.

[henesua]

Rolo, the material is specified by number not name. Look for something like "0 0 0 22". You'll need to configure your regex to allow for a mixed number of spaces between the numbers.

Thanks, Zwerkules. When I get back in blender today, I'll check that out.

[Rolo Kipp]

<thinking he gets it...>

Ok, I know the bridges you're talking about now, and I get that the material is referred to by index, in this case 22.

Now that index is applied per face, correct? So it is listed here?


Again, I am not seeing index 22 on any face, nor am I seeing the stone bridge fx in game when I walk on it. Am I *still* looking in the wrong place for the material index?

<...but still not getting it>

[s e n]

from what i understand the water plane needs to be under the a dummy, and the point where the water ripple appears has something to do with camera angle too. so if the wok is at ground level and the water is at 2 m, if you have camera up and see water, the ripple renders on the water plane, but if you zoom in under the water level, the ripple appears in the wok

[Michael DarkAngel]

Could not see any discernible difference in regards to angle, however, I was also testing with the vanilla rural stream and am unable to get the camera below the water plane.  So Sen's theory needs further testing.

@henesua
What tile did you notice the ripple effect appear on the ground mesh?  I would like to take a look at that and see if I can find anything out that way.

@Rolo
I can verify that the StoneBridge walk material does in fact work.  I changed one of the tiles in my City Bridge hak as a test, and it does produce small stones that fall from the underside of the bridge as you walk across it.  You really need to pay attention though as there is a slight delay.  Not to mention the camera needs to be at the proper angle in order to view it happening.


 MDA

[Michael DarkAngel]

I think I found the issue.

Tile: twl01_g02_02

Click for larger image

That is the water plane intersecting the walkmesh.  Notice the blue sections (water #6) above the water plane.  I believe that is what could be causing the ripples to appear to expand onto the ground.

And if the ripples expanding from the water onto the ground isn't what you are talking about, then you'll have to point me to the specific tile that you are seeing the issue.

I have only looked at this one tile, but I'm sure the others will be like this as well.

[EDIT]Re-reading the posts here, I noticed Zwerkules has already solved the mystery.  I'm basically just providing a visual.  I'll also add, hopefully for clarification, if you were to raise the water plane so that all the blue faces were below the water plane you would no longer see the ripples on the ground.

That would be a quick and dirty fix, in that it may cause more "puddles" of water to become visible.

The proper fix would be to split the walkmesh at the level of the water plane, anything above the split would be dirt #1 and below would remain water #6.

Or just live with the beautifulness of the tileset and don't worry about it's eccentricities.


 MDA

Modifié par Michael DarkAngel, 01 août 2013 - 05:15 .

[Zwerkules]

Rolo Kipp wrote...

<thinking he gets it...>

Ok, I know the bridges you're talking about now, and I get that the material is referred to by index, in this case 22.

Now that index is applied per face, correct? So it is listed here?


Again, I am not seeing index 22 on any face, nor am I seeing the stone bridge fx in game when I walk on it. Am I *still* looking in the wrong place for the material index?

<...but still not getting it>

That's very interesting, Rolo. The wok in the model itself which gets used in single player games has the material set to 22 while the material is set to 4 (rock) in the .wok file.
Usually the .wok is a copy of the aabb mesh in the model. I have no idea why there are wok files in the TNO tileset that don't match the walkmesh in the model file.

[Rolo Kipp]

<pouring some brandy...>

Then I'm not going blind? Phew! Feel much better now :-)

Ok, so I have learned that there are more than the standard 20 materials available, that the list can be extended, that the step fx is defined in surfacemat.2da and that the affect (for water) is raised above the wok to the water plane (if it exists above the wok), else it is placed at the model base *on* the wok, and is always placed on the wok for fx_step_dust and fx_step_stbrdg.

Now to make a fx_step_footprint effect for walking on snow (tangential to OP) and leaving footprints... Do *all* creatures trigger the step fx, or only those with feet? Ethereal? Can it be disabled?

If the PC is using the swim pheno, and is under the water plane, are ripples triggered on the water plane above if the water plane is part of the tile? What if the water plane is tilemagic?

<...for medicinal purposes>