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What if DA:I becomes the DA Me3?


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#276
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AlanC9 wrote...
Actually, I'll bet that the main things Bio takes away from ME3 are that their fans can't handle ambiguity, and they need to have things spelled out rather than implied. 


Ambiguity is one of the staples of the sci-fi genre. Take that away, and it stops becoming sci-fi. All these Mass Effect "fans" who want everything spelled out for them, with Dragon Age and LOTR epilogues (closure) need to stay away from the sci-fi genre altogether and stick with fantasy. Not too many sci-fi series that I know of have 45 minute epilogues tying up every situation at the end of a series or trilogy. Lots of unanswered questions and stuff not fully explained for the masses (see ME3 ending, how it's not fully explained and intentionally vague on purpose even to this day).

#277
Reofeir

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I actually really liked ME3's ending after extended cut. So, if it ends up like ME3 with extended cut...I'd be a bit disappointing but okay. I'd want them to do their best though.

#278
Eterna

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Then it would suck for a lot of people I suppose.

I liked ME3, I wish other people liked it like I do. I hope they have better luck with Dragon Age.

#279
Deflagratio

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I'm surprised people still bring up ME3 in a distinctly negative fashion. I thought the Extended Cut at least solved the issues in a sufficiently mediocre manner. The only thing that really pissed me off about the ending was how it was actually a lie, directly contradicting earlier statements (The now Infamous "It won't be like A, B, C...") as well as the nonesensical "Normandy" scenes that follow the explosions.


I won't let Mass Effect 3 off the hook that easily though. On what I feel is definitely a more serious note, I got really fed up with all the contrived scenarios that seemed to only exist to set up Shooting Galleries and "CoD like" set piece moments. I desperately hope Dragon Age: Inquisition avoids this, especially because according to GI Pieces, player agency is a crucial objective to DA:I and "Set Pieces" is about as far from Player Agency as you can get.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:02 .


#280
-TC1989-

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Personally for me it's hard to say... considering I've been a huge fan of Bioware for quite some time. I will say that my patience, and faith has been shaken lately, but to say "I'm done"? I just don't know. I can say that I'm not the blind day one buyer anymore, as they did take that away from me. I guess if their reputation as of late continued to get worse, then I would stray further and further away, but to the point of dropping them completely? I just don't see myself doing that anytime soon.

Modifié par -TC1989-, 15 septembre 2013 - 08:05 .


#281
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I'm impressed with most of what I've seen and heard thus far. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

#282
Arppis

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Atleast they got more time to do a proper job. The big problem with Bioware games of late is the fact that they only have 2 years to make a game. So the game ends up feeling "bare-bones" at some sections.

#283
CVigilantia

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Arppis wrote...

Atleast they got more time to do a proper job. The big problem with Bioware games of late is the fact that they only have 2 years to make a game. So the game ends up feeling "bare-bones" at some sections.


I think the main problem is that ME3 and DA2 was very unpolished.

You can see this in movies CG, where something just looks plain fake and utterly destroys immersion. For games, this would be the feeling you're not eating a full sandwich but 2 slices of bread and a slice of ham. Whether it be the painfully apparent linear pathing, obviously duplicate or fake texture (repeating textures, .gif people from ME3, Copied environments from DA2, etc.), it isn't just one thing but rather everything stacking together to give that bad taste in your mouth like they finished the game out of obligation rather than out of enjoyment of their job.
 
They delayed the game for a year, so hopefully this won't happen for DA:I.

#284
Eveangaline

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Considering I never played mass effect, I wouldn't get the comparison.

#285
Arppis

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CVigilantia wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Atleast they got more time to do a proper job. The big problem with Bioware games of late is the fact that they only have 2 years to make a game. So the game ends up feeling "bare-bones" at some sections.


I think the main problem is that ME3 and DA2 was very unpolished.

You can see this in movies CG, where something just looks plain fake and utterly destroys immersion. For games, this would be the feeling you're not eating a full sandwich but 2 slices of bread and a slice of ham. Whether it be the painfully apparent linear pathing, obviously duplicate or fake texture (repeating textures, .gif people from ME3, Copied environments from DA2, etc.), it isn't just one thing but rather everything stacking together to give that bad taste in your mouth like they finished the game out of obligation rather than out of enjoyment of their job.
 
They delayed the game for a year, so hopefully this won't happen for DA:I.


Yeah, they delayed the DA:I, and that's good. And I hope so too. ^_^

They most likely did it to be able to polish it up. Because they didn't have time to polish those two games up in 2 years.

How could they? The both are RPG's with a lot of content. I think they set themselves to fail when they didn't have enough time to really get it right. Dragon Age Origins had 7 years development time (If memmory serves, might have been 6). Mass Effect had plenty of time as well (not sure how much, sorry). I think Mass Effect 2 had about 3 years also.

ME3 and DA2 had 2 years give or take. Shows how the quality just drops when they cut the time down, doesn't it? 

This said, I did enjoy both of those games, but they weren't as good as the previous ones. :)

Modifié par Arppis, 15 septembre 2013 - 09:16 .


#286
CVigilantia

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Arppis wrote...

CVigilantia wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Atleast they got more time to do a proper job. The big problem with Bioware games of late is the fact that they only have 2 years to make a game. So the game ends up feeling "bare-bones" at some sections.


I think the main problem is that ME3 and DA2 was very unpolished.

You can see this in movies CG, where something just looks plain fake and utterly destroys immersion. For games, this would be the feeling you're not eating a full sandwich but 2 slices of bread and a slice of ham. Whether it be the painfully apparent linear pathing, obviously duplicate or fake texture (repeating textures, .gif people from ME3, Copied environments from DA2, etc.), it isn't just one thing but rather everything stacking together to give that bad taste in your mouth like they finished the game out of obligation rather than out of enjoyment of their job.
 
They delayed the game for a year, so hopefully this won't happen for DA:I.


Yeah, they delayed the DA:I, and that's good. And I hope so too. ^_^

They most likely did it to be able to polish it up. Because they didn't have time to polish those two games up in 2 years.

How could they? The both are RPG's with a lot of content. I think they set themselves to fail when they didn't have enough time to really get it right. Dragon Age Origins had 7 years development time (If memmory serves, might have been 6). Mass Effect had plenty of time as well (not sure how much, sorry). I think Mass Effect 2 had about 3 years also.

ME3 and DA2 had 2 years give or take. Shows how the quality just drops when they cut the time down, doesn't it? 

This said, I did enjoy both of those games, but they weren't as good as the previous ones. :)


6 years!?! Down to 2 years!? Damn... that explains why the quality dropped so much. 

#287
Arppis

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CVigilantia wrote...

Arppis wrote...

CVigilantia wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Atleast they got more time to do a proper job. The big problem with Bioware games of late is the fact that they only have 2 years to make a game. So the game ends up feeling "bare-bones" at some sections.


I think the main problem is that ME3 and DA2 was very unpolished.

You can see this in movies CG, where something just looks plain fake and utterly destroys immersion. For games, this would be the feeling you're not eating a full sandwich but 2 slices of bread and a slice of ham. Whether it be the painfully apparent linear pathing, obviously duplicate or fake texture (repeating textures, .gif people from ME3, Copied environments from DA2, etc.), it isn't just one thing but rather everything stacking together to give that bad taste in your mouth like they finished the game out of obligation rather than out of enjoyment of their job.
 
They delayed the game for a year, so hopefully this won't happen for DA:I.


Yeah, they delayed the DA:I, and that's good. And I hope so too. ^_^

They most likely did it to be able to polish it up. Because they didn't have time to polish those two games up in 2 years.

How could they? The both are RPG's with a lot of content. I think they set themselves to fail when they didn't have enough time to really get it right. Dragon Age Origins had 7 years development time (If memmory serves, might have been 6). Mass Effect had plenty of time as well (not sure how much, sorry). I think Mass Effect 2 had about 3 years also.

ME3 and DA2 had 2 years give or take. Shows how the quality just drops when they cut the time down, doesn't it? 

This said, I did enjoy both of those games, but they weren't as good as the previous ones. :)


6 years!?! Down to 2 years!? Damn... that explains why the quality dropped so much. 


That's what I recall anyhows. If someone has more solid info, they can correct me. But the development time was pretty long. Hehe.

Modifié par Arppis, 15 septembre 2013 - 10:03 .


#288
Mykel54

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I trust more the DA devs than the ME ones, so i´m willing to give them a chance.

DA2 was a mediocre game, but at least there were parts who were enjoyable, and Hawke was pretty much defined by the player. The game lacked in polish and in the way it approached combat, but the overall story made sense and felt like it fit in the DA setting.

ME3 on the other hand was terrible right from the beginning, with a dumb story and shepard was incredibly railroaded as a character, there was no roleplay at all. The only decent part was the combat, which explains why people prefer MP to SP. The ending was also terrible but no worse than the rest of the game, all the grey conflicts fron ME2 (geth, genophage, cerberus, etc.) were simplified, and the setting added even more space magic to explain away the plot holes. It was much more disappointing than DA2 for me.

Modifié par Mykel54, 15 septembre 2013 - 11:15 .


#289
bEVEsthda

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The development of DA:O was probably mostly done on back-burner in the early years. It was a Bioware-IP without publisher. In the beginning, many steps had to be taken to develop the world, and in the end, a year was spent tweaking the game to also be possible play on and port to the consoles.

So the development time of DA:O isn't directly comparable to anything else. What can be said about it, is that it was enough. And that, I suppose, is the important part.

In the case of DA2, I think the developers did a brilliant work of fitting in the game into the schedules. Really well done, even if I didn't like the game, as it was. And they could have saved work if they had reused more resources from DA:O, rather than restyle so much.
And in that, lies the main mistake of DA2: They figured players wanted something different. I cannot help myself from thinking that EA transfers, 'game-design-consultants', marketing dudes, EA-influence in short, had a lot to do with that. Because the changes sort of went into the direction of EA's stereotyphical and failed view of what a gamer is.
(I think Bioware's view might actually be worseImage IPB, at least after these years of BSN-turmoil, but I think they're closer to realityImage IPB, and thus, maybe, also less insulting, even if they're uglierImage IPB).

I see the re-styling of DA in DA2 as the biggest problem for that game, not the development time. But of course, on that development time, DA2 could never have done DA full justice. But it could have been a good game, a sort of brief installment in the DA franchise. But then it shouldn't have been named "2". But whatever, no, development time was probably not enough in any case.

But all that is now water under the bridge.
And DA:I will be an absolutely fantastic game. Better than DA:O, better than Skyrim. Maybe even better than BG. At least for anyone caring to experience it, itself, rather than griping about differences to DA2 or DA:O.
The DA future is bright.

#290
Aaleel

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That would be hard because you're haven't had the same PC and party members/squadmates through all the games. You're not finishing something you started 5 years ago.

On the other hand. ME3 was made to look like the next coming before it came out too. Developers saying all the right things, showing all the right pictures and videos. Then the game actually came out. So in that way DA:I could be like ME3.

#291
Angrywolves

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There are still murmurs on other forums about the end of ME3 after all this time.
I've never played it, just read comments and watched youtube videos .
The dlc which seems to have satisfied some players wouldn't have done anything for me.
I am sure the DA team is well aware of the mistakes made by Casey Hudson and Matt Walters and won't repeat them in DAI.

#292
The Six Path of Pain

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Well that would suck. ME3 was such a big disappointment, besides few cutscenes, I really didn't like that game at all. ME1 all the way! Anyway to answer your question...meh, I probably wouldn't care much. It would just be another disappointing Bioware game. /:

#293
mupp3tz

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Well, my opinion of Bioware would certainly be lowered, but I wouldn't automatically put them on some "never again" list. I always decide to buy games on a case by case basis. If they release a game that looks pretty good later on, I'll probably still buy it but at a discounted price.

I doubt I'll be as disappointed with DA:I, though. The ME trilogy was different because we were interacting with the same characters the entire time. Because of this I was able to get more invested in not just the world (as is primarily the case with DA for me), but also specific individuals within.

#294
Deflagratio

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Eveangaline wrote...

Considering I never played mass effect, I wouldn't get the comparison.


Imagine eatting the most amazing dish you can concieve of. Enjoying (almost) every bite with near orgasmic pleasure. Then, before you can seize the last moursel, a fly lands it, releasing fourth a disgusting fluid which serves as a medium for its brood.



In light of Mass Effect 3 and even Dragon Age 2, If the PAX Demo is representative of the experience, and not just a PR best foot forward demonstration, I don't think anyone has need to worry.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:03 .


#295
a7rivera

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Calling DA2 a failure is an over exaggeration

After the massive backlash from the ME3 controversy, I'm pretty sure Bioware wouldn't try to repeat something like that again.

Modifié par a7rivera, 15 septembre 2013 - 06:55 .


#296
Boiny Bunny

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The two series' are a little different - with Mass Effect players had years to attach themselves to 'their' Shepard, as time went on imagining increasingly obscene possible endings for them at the conclusion of ME3 (marriage/alien children would just be scratching the surface). As it turned out, ME3 had a fairly normal video game ending. There was a Deus Ex Machina, a choice that essentially meant nothing, and slightly controversially, none of the endings could have been regarded as 'perfect' (i.e. everybody lives, rainbows and unicorns, etc.)

DA:I could quite happily feature an equally poor Deus Ex Machina/choice to tie things up, and I doubt it would get the same level of coverage. Each player will only have had a few days (weeks?) to invest themselves into their DA:I character, and the new re-imagined world of Thedas, before they witness the potentially abominable ending for the first time.

Personally, I'd be much more concerned about DA:I being like DA2, where (IMO) almost every part of the game was executed fairly poorly.

I can happily forgive a bad ending if there are good characters and development along the way, or if the gameplay is amazing, or perhaps, if the art/design/music is good enough to create an incredible immersive experience.

As somebody has already pointed out here though, I'm sure Bioware learned a great deal from the reception of both DA2 and ME3. As such, I'd guess that DA:I will probably feature a 'happy rainbows and unicorns' ending.

#297
fiveforchaos

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I got into Bioware games long after any of the fan controversies. They weren't enough to stop me from playing the games initially (and trust me, I knew all about the controversies) why would they be enough to stop me from playing the games after I got into them?

#298
Ryzaki

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If DAI is like ME3 with its hordes of auto dialogue, laughable enemies and barf worthy ending then yeah I'm done with both the ME and DA series.