Modifié par David7204, 03 août 2013 - 03:51 .
Let's keep cutscene incompetence to a minimum, please.
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#101
Posté 03 août 2013 - 03:49
David7204
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Wow! If a game has more development time than another, having even one single feature worse than a game with less development time must mean the developers are lazy and incompetent! Totally ignoring the fact that Dragon Age, using meele, bows, and magic, is going to have an immensely easier time than Mass Effect with this issue anyway.
Retour en haut
#102
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 03:50
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Who said I was making a list? That was just an example to go against your dubious assertion of how impossible it would be to do something like that, since it clearly is not.
Whether a game is has crappy cutscenes or not is very much on a case by case basis and there's a lot more to consider than just whether your character has a generic loadout, often it's not even comparable because there's no customization options for there to be a different loadout, or it doesn't even have cutscenes. If you want to point out games that I haven't mentioned but you're so sure I must be a hypocrite about, by all means, fire away...
Whether a game is has crappy cutscenes or not is very much on a case by case basis and there's a lot more to consider than just whether your character has a generic loadout, often it's not even comparable because there's no customization options for there to be a different loadout, or it doesn't even have cutscenes. If you want to point out games that I haven't mentioned but you're so sure I must be a hypocrite about, by all means, fire away...
#103
Posté 03 août 2013 - 03:53
What a Succulent Ass
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...How?David7204 wrote...
Totally ignoring the fact that Dragon Age, using meele, bows, and magic, is going to have an immensely easier time than Mass Effect with this issue anyway.
#104
Posté 03 août 2013 - 03:54
David7204
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Try to get this concept through your skull - good writing does not allow developers to magically defy reality.
Because guess what? The reality is that this is an very difficult problem that nobody has really figured out how to solve, particularly you. The reality is that all modern games with significant cutscenes use such shortcuts, and that criticizing Mass Effect doing the same thing as 'Incompetence' is stupid.
Because guess what? The reality is that this is an very difficult problem that nobody has really figured out how to solve, particularly you. The reality is that all modern games with significant cutscenes use such shortcuts, and that criticizing Mass Effect doing the same thing as 'Incompetence' is stupid.
Modifié par David7204, 03 août 2013 - 03:55 .
#105
Posté 03 août 2013 - 03:57
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Random Jerkface wrote...
...How?David7204 wrote...
Totally ignoring the fact that Dragon Age, using meele, bows, and magic, is going to have an immensely easier time than Mass Effect with this issue anyway.
Because meele weapons, bows, and magic aren't restricted by things like magazine sizes, fire rates, and so forth. Their limitations in comparison to other weapons of their kind are generally much more due to the wielder, not the weapon itself, and thus more arbitrary and flexible in cutscenes. Whereas two pistols might be very different, two swords could probably be used identically in cutscenes without any problems.
Modifié par David7204, 03 août 2013 - 04:03 .
#106
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 03:58
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Cop-out acknowledged, thanks for playing. 
#107
Guest_LindsayLohan_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:00
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David7204 wrote...
First of all, you have any clue whatsoever the difficulties behind putting the proper weapons in cutscenes? Any clue at all? You think weapons can just be swapped out like the cover on your phone? No. Different weapons have different stances, different ammunition capacities, different lengths, different effects, different fire rates. All of that has to be accounted for. All of it. Nothing is 'forced' into a cutscene. That's incredibly silly.
I tell you what. Why don't you give me a list of all modern games that have characters equip AND USE the weapons the player chooses in cutscenes with no mistakes. No weapons with five shot capacities firing six rounds. No weapons that fire at 10 rounds per second firing at 15.
Secondly, did you even read what you wrote? I say that that problems with the fight on Thessia are due to gameplay, not cutscenes. And you counter that by telling me there's a huge problem with the gunship because it can't be destroyed...in gameplay. Thanks for supporting my point right there.They have the right to make their games without being subjected to very ridiculous and hypocritical standards. Proclaiming that BioWare cutscenes are 'Cutscene Incompetence' for such content when every or near every other video game in existence gets a free pass is absurd. You don't have to like it. But you don't to get to make up names for it that clearly aren't true.Filament wrote...
They're not "obligated" to make a good game.
I love armchair development. This is not always the case though, if it is a game like dragon age in which it looks like the cinematics are done in engine then this should not be an issue. if the player is doing the same animation but with a different inventory it is just a matter of flag changing. However the problem comes when a player needs totally different animations for his cinematics. That is when it becomes expensive to produce. Mass effect 3 used the idea of the same animation for different weapons and it worked out okay for them.
#108
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:03
David7204
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Please keep comments on-topic. Thanks! ~Mod05
Modifié par BioWareMod05, 03 août 2013 - 04:48 .
#109
Guest_LindsayLohan_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:05
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It didn't work well from a bug perspective but as a framework I said it did pretty well. Nothing in the animation immensely changed it was just a question of is Shepard using the right weapon. From a framework perspective the method actually worked.
#110
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:06
Cainhurst Crow
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Why the hell are we talking about mass effect, in the mother ****ing dragon age section?
#111
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:07
MassivelyEffective0730
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Once more, David has turned this thread into an argument about Mass Effect. Not touching everything else that he's wrong about, reported for spam.
#112
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:07
legbamel
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Apparently you've missed the entire point of the thread, which is not to accuse the writers, animators, or any other dev of incompetence. It's to complain about our PC or companions appearing incompetent within a cut scene. If a companion is nearer and fails to react to my imminent demise so that dramatic blue savior can happen, that's forced incompetence. The reverse is also a problem. If one character is shown in a cut scene but he or she is using a weapon in which he or she is untrained and never carries (I'm looking at you, here, Kaidan) then the feigned competence is just as jarring.David7204 wrote...
Try to get this concept through your skull - good writing does not allow developers to magically defy reality.
Because guess what? The reality is that this is an very difficult problem that nobody has really figured out how to solve, particularly you. The reality is that all modern games with significant cutscenes use such shortcuts, and that criticizing Mass Effect doing the same thing as 'Incompetence' is stupid.
I'd be more than happy to see the PC of DA:I shown to fail, if it makes sense in the narrative and at that point in character development. I don't enjoy cut scenes where he or she forgets things like ranged weapons for convenience.
Modifié par legbamel, 03 août 2013 - 04:09 .
#113
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:08
David7204
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What do you mean exactly by a 'framework' position? And I'm not sure I would call those mistakes bugs. More like intentional trade-offs. Because 'bug' implies it's something that can be fixed without unreasonable work.
#114
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:10
MassivelyEffective0730
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David, cutscene incompetence is a real problem. An employee of BW specifically acknowledged it as an issue.
John Epler wrote...
To be fair, I had a good twenty archers in that cutscene, and you were there without your party.
The Grace/Thrask example is totally fair, though. But I made a point of making the MOTA trap absurdly over-the-top so that it at least felt like 'okay, maybe this one's gonna be tough to fight your way out of.
That said, we're aware of the cutscene incompetence issue in a grander sense. We'll be taking special care to avoid situations where it feels as though even a minimum amount of effort would completely change the course of events - see, Grace/Thrask once again.
#115
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:11
David7204
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legbamel wrote...
If one character is shown in a cut scene but he or she is using a weapon in which he or she is untrained and never carries (I'm looking at you, here, Kaidan) then the feigned competence is just as jarring.
I'm sorry you feel that way. But you know what? Tough.
It might be jarring that all shopkeepers in every video game in existence use the same dozen lines for greeting you, and usually far less. It might be jarring that every video game environment in existence is finite. That you can't explore the whole city or whole country or whatever. It might be jarring that characters wear the same clothes all the same.
But I would suggest you get you to those things, besides they aren't going away any time soon. If you can't handle those things, I would suggest you give up video games, because this is the reality we deal with.
As I said, the reailty is, making characters properly use their weapons and abilities in cutscenes in a major obsticle nobody has been able to solve, and that's unlikely to change any time soon.
Modifié par David7204, 03 août 2013 - 04:12 .
#116
Guest_LindsayLohan_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:11
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David7204 wrote...
What do you mean exactly by a 'framework' position? And I'm not sure I would call those mistakes bugs. More like intentional trade-offs. Because 'bug' implies it's something that can be fixed without unreasonable work.
You are Wrong. A bug is basically any mistake in software. I mean that the schematics of how to do it was actually already implemented and it was just a matter of making sure that it is implemented correctly.
#117
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:14
David7204
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Are you under the impression the word 'Wrong' is extra convincing because the 'W' is capitalized? This is not a 'mistake.' It's a trade off. You get to have characters holding the proper weapons in cutscenes. You give up having those weapons function properly.
Modifié par David7204, 03 août 2013 - 04:14 .
#118
Guest_LindsayLohan_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:15
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hahahahahah woooow That is probably the most absurd thing I have heard ever. What system is this and who would design software in such a way? I am actually baffled that you would come to such a conclusion. I take my leave cause I am really surprised at this.
#119
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:15
AresKeith
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David7204 wrote...
Are you under the impression the word 'Wrong' is extra convincing because the 'W' is capitalized? This is not a 'mistake.' It's a trade off. You get to have characters holding the proper weapons in cutscenes. You give up having those weapons function properly.
And yet characters like Shepard doesn't have the proper weapons
#120
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:16
David7204
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People who value squadmates holding the right weapons over those weapons functioning properly, obviously.
#121
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:17
Cainhurst Crow
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PsychoBlonde wrote...
John Epler wrote...
To be fair, I had a good twenty archers in that cutscene, and you were there without your party.
Sadly, my rogue Hawke has taken down groups that size by herself. Groups of DRAGONS. Because my dang party members could NOT stay out of the fireballs. Bleh. Did for Corypheus that way, too.
If you want a suggestion, instead of trying to bully us with large groups of enemies (which won't work even if there are hundreds), have them actually hit the PC with something. Knock-out toxin. Magic taser. Goo trap. Blood magic dominate. Something. There are one-shot takedowns in the game, so this isn't divorced from the gameplay. But murdering tons of dudes is nothing as far as the gameplay goes so archers pointing bows at you, far from being impressive, is practically mundane.
Wouldn't players get annoyed if after almost every encounter where your not allowed to kill someone, you end up having to get told what happened via companion exposition? I mean, there are a lot of examples of wanting to kill someone but not having the option because they'll play a part later. Like that chantry lady and her templar in dragon age 2, or half the mages/templars in the missions you have at the wounded coast.
I'm assuming that in order to avoid appearance of incompetance, you'd need to have some means of incapacitating the protaganist in every case.
#122
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:17
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Too medgy for you homie?LindsayLohan wrote...
hahahahahah woooow That is probably the most absurd thing I have heard ever. What system is this and who would design software in such a way? I am actually baffled that you would come to such a conclusion. I take my leave cause I am really surprised at this.
#123
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:18
David7204
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AresKeith wrote...
David7204 wrote...
Are you under the impression the word 'Wrong' is extra convincing because the 'W' is capitalized? This is not a 'mistake.' It's a trade off. You get to have characters holding the proper weapons in cutscenes. You give up having those weapons function properly.
And yet characters like Shepard doesn't have the proper weapons
Because BioWare apparently decided not to make the trade-off for every cutscene.
Thankfully, there's an advantage to that. You notice the Avenger always behaves exactly like an Avenger should in cutscenes? Predators as well. There's no mistakes.
#124
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:19
A Crusty Knight Of Colour
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So in addition to being a physicist, and a biologist, is David trying to school a software programmer on what a bug is?
#125
Posté 03 août 2013 - 04:19
AresKeith
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David7204 wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
David7204 wrote...
Are you under the impression the word 'Wrong' is extra convincing because the 'W' is capitalized? This is not a 'mistake.' It's a trade off. You get to have characters holding the proper weapons in cutscenes. You give up having those weapons function properly.
And yet characters like Shepard doesn't have the proper weapons
Because BioWare apparently decided not to make the trade-off for every cutscene.
Thankfully, there's an advantage to that. You notice the Avenger always behaves exactly like an Avenger should in cutscenes? Predators as well. There's no mistakes.
Yeah because spawning weapons I'm not even using makes sense <_<
