143 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...
Man, you are funny.

I know.

And you have a knack for interpretation. You make it sound as if I consider season passes to be some sort of high ideal.  How about a more forward phrasing so that you can sufficiently understand it:

Yes, using words that express what you actually mean is generally a good idea.

Well, not all of us can create such ingenious, original, and complex statements such as "platonic sex."

The rest of us have to settle for our lesser command of the English language.

Why are you dragging up semantic arguments from an unrelated debate, that do not even counter the point I made in the debate where they were relevant?

Well, I am trying to learn from the Master! Misdirection is a common argument of yours, so I see your godlike mastery in all things and try to emulate it for my own purposes! I am simply trying to imitate what I know is unobtainable!

[Sjpelke]

No, I would not get a season pass.

Would buy the DLC and/or expansions that I would like to have when they came out and interested in them enough to get them.

[happy_daiz]

I'd be curious, and possibly interested, about it if I had an idea of what they were planning. If they went that route. If. But I don't personally trust them enough right now to follow through with anything they might promise. I'm afraid I'm too jaded for a leap of faith at this point.

[Ninja Stan]

Hey Plaintiff, Volus Warlord. Cut it out and return to your own corners. Friend each other and take it to PM if you want to continue bickering.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Hey Plaintiff, Volus Warlord. Cut it out and return to your own corners. Friend each other and take it to PM if you want to continue bickering.

:lol::lol:

The system works.

[o Ventus]

Enigmatick wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

There's literally no downside to this.

Borderlands 2 makes DLC that some consider to be quite important excluded from the season pass. The problem with most season passes is whether or not the publisher is clear what DLCs the season pass will include, as the common assumption is "Buy this, get all upcoming DLC for this game".

The BL2 season pass explicitly tells you the names of the DLCs that are included (4 story add-ons and a level cap increase w/ extra difficulty mode). The only non-season-pass DLC for BL2 are the character skins and additional classes. Neither of those are "important", considering they cost the same amount of money as the season pass DLCs do.

[Fast Jimmy]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Hey Plaintiff, Volus Warlord. Cut it out and return to your own corners. Friend each other and take it to PM if you want to continue bickering.

The reality of needing to friend someone to fight them in PM is rather humorous.

I have to disagree. You're effectively asking the player to take more on faith and take a bigger risk in the hope that the dev will put out lots of DLC to make it a good investment.

I want to know it'll be a good investment. Guaranteeing content at less cost than the content combined will sell for does that.
And I think it would just be really hard to market your idea in the face of discounts normally being a free promotional thing. Paying for a discount is a pretty lame proposition IMO.

See, I view it as the exact opposite, where the expectation of pre-ordering something that far in advance may result in more problems than it resolves. So let me get you an example.

Imagine if ME3 had such a season pass and, before release, Bioware had promised DLC titles and advertised as "From Ashes - uncover a Prothean squadmate!" "Leviathan - uncover the lost secrets of the Reapers" "Omega - retake the station from nefarious hands" and "Citadel - solve the conspiracy surrounding Shepherd."

Now... imagine ME3's ending cacophony with his expectation that people had pre-bought these DLC. Players would have had Indoctrination Theory or Puzzle Theory or any other number of ideas about what the DLC will reveal or contain, with rabid speculation all over the place. Then, when the DLC came out, the fans may have been shocked and even angry that they didn't get what they wanted, despite paying for it under vague pretenses. It basically has all the loaded gun potential to blow up as a Kickstarter, where a developer may suddenly open to complaints or even demands for refunds for the bill of goods not matching the anticipated investment.

On the other hand, a 50% discount could have gotten you From Ashes and Citadel at the same price as sticker if you chose to forego the other two, where you could let a review or further clarification closer to the DLC release make the determination on if you buy it or not. Since it would be cheaper to buy the DLC than norm, you would have less of a barrier, it could make an open set of possibilities between the developer and consumer. 

[o Ventus]

Volus Warlord wrote...

It will be pushed heavily off the bat, when no one knows how much DLC or how good the DLC's are. Essentially, they will be (more often than not) a blind investment.

1. The description of the season pass tells you how many DLCs are going to be included. The season passes for Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Borderlands 2, Gears of War 3, Black Ops 2, and Forza Horizon all do, just to name a few.

2. YOU DON'T NEED TO PURCHASE THE SEASON PASS IMMEDIATELY. YOU CAN WAIT FOR THE DLC TO BE RELEASED AND PURCHASE THE PASS THEN.

Every single one of the above games' season passes are still available for purchase. MK2011 released in April 2011 (with all of the DLC being available for purchase for well over a year by this point) and you can still buy its pass. Same goes for Gears.

The season passes might only be availible for a limited time. That has been done before as well.

I've never once heard of a season pass being taken off sale.

The season pass might not save you money.  The DLCs may be worth exactly the total of-or LESS than-the value of a season pass.

Which isn't a downside. You're then paying 4 DLCs worth of money for 4 DLCs. It's the same as pre-ordering a game, only this time it isn't for a game, it's for add-ons. It isn't like you're being overcharged or anything. If anything, it's still better than buying the DLCs separately, because the season pass is already a bundle.

The lines are extremely arbitrary as to what is included in the season pass and what is not.

It's quite literally spelled out for you in the sales description.

So, for the season pass to be a good idea, I have to ASSUME:
1.) There will be numerous DLCs

Which there are. If there weren't, the season pass model of DLC distribution is pointless.

2.) I will like most or all of the related DLC

This isn't a relevant point. How are you going to know if you like it without playing it (hence purchasing it)? Like I said, you don't need to buy the pass immediately.

3.) The DLC I want will be covered by the season pass

The DLCs are either spelled out explicitly by name (as in the case of Borderlands 2), or are given a specific description ("4 bonus fighters", in the case of Injustice and MK). In either case, it isn't as if you are buying blind. You know what you're getting. Given how often DLC leaks are on the internet, I would say this is a moot point. The DLC roster for Injustice and Gears of War 3 were both leaked about a week after those games' respective releases.

4.) The developer/publisher will take care of me in some way if they fail to live up to season pass promises

Fair point. To my knowledge, no developer has offered a season pass and failed to deliver the promised content.

5.) The developer/publisher will be relatively straightforward in their dealings with the season pass

I've gone over this 3 times.

And those are frankly several very big assumptions to makie. Basically you are paying the publisher to hold you by the balls and hoping for the best. 

I say nay to season passes.

I think it's clear by this point that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Plaintiff]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
The reality of needing to friend someone to fight them in PM is rather humorous.

I'd rather staple my dick to my forehead.

[o Ventus]

LindsayLohan wrote...

Optional season's pass yes. Mandatory, no. Also In my opinion they should have an expansion instead of dlc. Isn't the idea of dlc to provide additional content which couldn't be completed within the development cycle? I swear if we get day one dlc...

I don't think a mandatory season pass would even be legal.

Also, a great deal of DLC is made after the game releases. Look at ME3 (From Ashes notwithstanding).

[MerinTB]

On a Season Pass?

I'll pass.

[o Ventus]

LindsayLohan wrote...

I would support such a system in place. However, i do wish we go back to the days of expansion rather than having DLC.

Is there really a difference between the "old" system and now?

Take StarCraft, for example. The core game (when it was new) costs $50, and each expansion costs $30. Each expansion would add several singleplayer missions and some new units for multiplayer.

Nowadays it isn't any different. A $60 dollar game offers a $10 DLC that doesn't consume quite as much memory as a full expansion, but still offers a good amount of content. It isn't like you're being cheated out of your money.

The most recent Borderlands 2 add-on is well worth the $10 price tag, and is even better than some full-priced games.

[Volus Warlord]

[quote]o Ventus wrote...

[quote]Volus Warlord wrote...

It will be pushed heavily off the bat, when no one knows how much DLC or how good the DLC's are. Essentially, they will be (more often than not) a blind investment.[/quote]

1. The description of the season pass tells you how many DLCs are going to be included. The season passes for Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Borderlands 2, Gears of War 3, Black Ops 2, and Forza Horizon all do, just to name a few.

2. YOU DON'T NEED TO PURCHASE THE SEASON PASS IMMEDIATELY. YOU CAN WAIT FOR THE DLC TO BE RELEASED AND PURCHASE THE PASS THEN.

Every single one of the above games' season passes are still available for purchase. MK2011 released in April 2011 (with all of the DLC being available for purchase for well over a year by this point) and you can still buy its pass. Same goes for Gears.

[quote]The season passes might only be availible for a limited time. That has been done before as well.[/quote]

I've never once heard of a season pass being taken off sale.

[quote]The season pass might not save you money.  The DLCs may be worth exactly the total of-or LESS than-the value of a season pass.[/quote]

Which isn't a downside. You're then paying 4 DLCs worth of money for 4 DLCs. It's the same as pre-ordering a game, only this time it isn't for a game, it's for add-ons. It isn't like you're being overcharged or anything. If anything, it's still better than buying the DLCs separately, because the season pass is already a bundle.

[quote]The lines are extremely arbitrary as to what is included in the season pass and what is not.[/quote]

It's quite literally spelled out for you in the sales description.

[quote]So, for the season pass to be a good idea, I have to ASSUME:
1.) There will be numerous DLCs[/quote]

Which there are. If there weren't, the season pass model of DLC distribution is pointless.

[quote]2.) I will like most or all of the related DLC[/quote]

This isn't a relevant point. How are you going to know if you like it without playing it (hence purchasing it)? Like I said, you don't need to buy the pass immediately.

[quote]3.) The DLC I want will be covered by the season pass[/quote]

The DLCs are either spelled out explicitly by name (as in the case of Borderlands 2), or are given a specific description ("4 bonus fighters", in the case of Injustice and MK). In either case, it isn't as if you are buying blind. You know what you're getting. Given how often DLC leaks are on the internet, I would say this is a moot point. The DLC roster for Injustice and Gears of War 3 were both leaked about a week after those games' respective releases.

[quote]4.) The developer/publisher will take care of me in some way if they fail to live up to season pass promises[/quote]

Fair point. To my knowledge, no developer has offered a season pass and failed to deliver the promised content.

[quote]5.) The developer/publisher will be relatively straightforward in their dealings with the season pass[/quote]

I've gone over this 3 times.

[quote]And those are frankly several very big assumptions to makie. Basically you are paying the publisher to hold you by the balls and hoping for the best. 

I say nay to season passes.[/quote]

I think it's clear by this point that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[/quote]

That must be it.

1.) There is no promise there will be multiple DLCs. Something being pointless will not stop EA from doing it. Therefore, banking on there being a lot of DLC is a gamble.

2.)  This is entirely relevent. The rule of fun is number one for videos, and DLC is no exception. What is the point of getting a ton of DLC at a cut rate if you hate some or all of it? Are you better off? I dare say no. Therefore, when you buy a season pass you are gambling that you will like (or at least find satisfactory) most or all of its DLC. That is a gamble to make as well.  It is not a given. I want to enjoy things that I payed money to enjoy. I want assurance of some sort before I put down the money. A season pass purchase will almost always have the assurance for some or none of it.

3.) What is or is not covered by the season pass may not be explicitly stated in the season pass, or prone to misinterpretation. Regardless of who's fault what is, you are the loser because you put down the money for the season pass. So, you are taking another gamble in thinking that the season pass will have in it what you think it will have in it.

4.) Reasonable to skip

5.) Regardless of how many times you went over it, lack of faith in the publisher to deliver is still a big factor. If Bioware offers up some grand season pass and DLC gets cancelled, it will make them look bad. If DLC that would have been covered by the season pass gets cancelled and I bought a season pass, I would be furious. If the game is atrocious or underperforms in any way, DLC will get cancelled.  DLCs have been cancelled in the past. Why would my doubt here be unreasonable?


P.S. You cut me deep Plaintiff, you cut me deep.

Though the alternative you propose I must say is rather appealing. 

[o Ventus]

Volus Warlord wrote...

That must be it.

1.) There is no promise there will be multiple DLCs. Something being pointless will not stop EA from doing it. Therefore, banking on there being a lot of DLC is a gamble.

Go and find literally any season pass for any game and read the description. It will have a number of DLCs for which the pass is eligible.

2.)  This is entirely relevent. The rule of fun is number one for videos, and DLC is no exception. What is the point of getting a ton of DLC at a cut rate if you hate some or all of it? Are you better off? I dare say no. Therefore, when you buy a season pass you are gambling that you will like (or at least find satisfactory) most or all of its DLC. That is a gamble to make as well.  It is not a given. I want to enjoy things that I payed money to enjoy. I want assurance of some sort before I put down the money. A season pass purchase will almost always have the assurance for some or none of it.

It's impossible to assure quality. That's entirely subjective. It isn't the fault of the developers that you don't like the DLC they make. If you're spending money on something you don't like, then frankly you deserve to lose the cash. Somebody more responsible has it now.

I'd also like to point out again, YOU CAN BUY THE PASS AFTER THE DLC RELEASES. There's quite literally nothing stopping you from waiting until the DLC comes out, watching a YouTube video, and deciding if you like it.

3.) What is or is not covered by the season pass may not be explicitly stated in the season pass,

Except it will. You will not find a single season pass that doesn't have a description of what it entitles you to.

or prone to misinterpretation.

Which isn't a fault of the season pass. Thus, irrelevant. Not my faut, nor the developers fault that somebody isn't good at reading.

5.) Regardless of how many times you went over it, lack of faith in the publisher to deliver is still a big factor. If Bioware offers up some grand season pass and DLC gets cancelled, it will make them look bad. If DLC that would have been covered by the season pass gets cancelled and I bought a season pass, I would be furious. If the game is atrocious or underperforms in any way, DLC will get cancelled.  DLCs have been cancelled in the past. Why would my doubt here be unreasonable?

If they make a season pass, distribute it, and fail to meet the legally binding expectations, then legal action can be taken and they would be required to reimburse you.

DLCs may have been cancelled in the past, but those games also didn't have season passes.

Your argument comes off as a deluded, paranoid rant about something that you know nothing about. You say you've purchased a season pass, but I doubt the validity of that statement based on your words. These things that you claim are either patently untrue or are circumstantial (at best). The only legitimate issue you bring up is if a developer fails to release a promised DLC, which is a null statement because they would then be legally required to reimburse you. I've purchased season passes for all of the games I previously mentioned, and thus far I've been nothing short of satisfied.

[Allan Schumacher]

EDIT: Stan already spoke.


As a comment: If someone feels Season Passes aren't typically worth it, that's also fine.  It's a position I typically share as well.  It's along the lines of preorders, which I rarely do unless I will definitely be purchasing at release and typically only if there are additional incentives for doing so.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 02 août 2013 - 05:55 .

[Sister Goldring]

I don't really know anything about season passes but if it means that I pay EA money and then Bioware has to provide a certain quantity of DA DLC then I'll sign up for sure.  I hate it when the stuff I was relying on to get me through my recreation hours happily doesn't eventuate.  I still haven't come to terms with the cancelled expansion for DA2.  I'm bored and I want to play!

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 02 août 2013 - 06:11 .

[MerinTB]

Sister Goldring wrote...
I don't really know anything about season passes but if it means that I pay EA money and then Bioware has to provide a certain quantity of DA DLC then I'll sign up for sure.  I hate it when the stuff I was relying on to get me through my recreation hours happily doesn't eventuate.  I still haven't come to terms with the cancelled expansion for DA2.  I'm bored and I want to play!

A season pass isn't a promise of any amount of DLC being made, it's only a promise that any DLC made you get with your pass.

There's a key difference there.

[Sister Goldring]

Hiya Merin

Hummmm, you're right that's a big difference .  If I was going to pay for DLC in advance then I'd have to be pretty certain that there's going to be a fair whack of DLC made.  DLC isn't expensive, so discounting the cost for pre-purchase wouldn't sway me.  Then the only real incentive I can see at this point to buying a season pass would be to apply a bit of consumer pressure to the company to get them to produce the content and I don't really think that action would be effective.

So probably not for me then, I'll have to go back to begging. 

Modifié par Sister Goldring, 02 août 2013 - 06:30 .

[ElitePinecone]

Yes.

I would very very very much like this.

[billy the squid]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Hey Plaintiff, Volus Warlord. Cut it out and return to your own corners. Friend each other and take it to PM if you want to continue bickering.

Hahahaha Hahaha. And that's why the current PM system is a pile of crap. Mods want less sniping and fighting on the forums, then change it back. 

What was the phrase on the ME3 MP forums from posters? "Guys, take it to PMs"

Modifié par billy the squid, 02 août 2013 - 11:17 .

[Vort3xX]

No seasons pass should not exist in any game, why would anyone pre buy dlc's of all things and beg for it, yes you save some money but you have no guarantee that they'll even be worthwhile and considering the quality of most dlc's it's just not good in any way, seems like a waste of money more than anything else or are we talking buying it if most dlc's are already out ?.