143 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

billy the squid wrote...

That's dangerous talk there sin, our glorious moderators don't take kindly to such heretical views, follow the party line and be content.

Also my friend just go banned because she said "e-boobs" on the MP forum, another example of glorious moderation.

Really? I guess maybe it was used as an insult or attack.

I'm sad to say I've only been banned once, and it was an auto-ban (for using an obscenity—which I knew the software would filter out anyway, and I was going to edit the post right after, so I didn't bother to censor myself... and then I got banned for 24 hours just for submitting the word that the forum would never even have shown). I don't even remember if it was here or the old forums; I'm still not sure how so many people get banned (and apparently so often).

I like how the forums are now locked down, while hateful bigotry and profanity and pornography all have free rein in the dumb groups feature. Way to go, BioWare.

Modifié par devSin, 02 août 2013 - 08:21 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

I really wish they'd take the Bethesda/Obsidian approach to DLC - only a few, but much more substantial.

Heh that was a recent move of Bethesda only after the backlash of Oblivion DLC. No one remember the horse armor DLC?

"Recent" being "It happened a grand total of one time seven years ago and everyone jumps down their throat every time Bethesda and DLC is mentioned in the same sentence". Yes, everyone remembers the Horse Armor DLC.

[o Ventus]

billy the squid wrote...

Which kicks it up to the mods who have to investigate the accusation. As I said. I hope most people have half a brain and can resolve their own problems using the system tools if they were better implimented, instead I see a lot of "he offended my sensibilities*report*" 

There are 29 mods listed solely for the DAI forums. I think they can handle it.

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Only if Bioware/EA has a DLC plan and know for a fact they're going to release so many DLCs by a certain point.

That is usually the case for DLC now a days, the season pass stuff grew out of giving customers more value in a way that wont ****** off retailers.


And chances are, BioWare does have a plan for DLC because it would be foolish not to at this point in the game. 

Planning is one thing. Having consumers pay money based on those plans (which are subject to change with little input from said payers) is a dangerous model.

The less promised, the better. The lower the cost of pass, the better. And the more open (not laying out specific DLC that could result in exclusions), the better.

All of which play in perfect wih my discount model. Honestly, someone at EA needs to give me a call. 

The dangerous aspect of this model is the unknown factor to it for consumers yes, but truth be told thats the risk of any DLC or buying any game anyway. If consumers want to take that risk, they buy into it. It's like any loyalty pass though, you pay once for 4, only pay for 3 at initial cost, you download all 4 for free. Done and done. 

Either way, the publishers and retailers win because you paid for 3 over 4, even if you only use 2 out of 4 or 1out of four. What the consumers want or how they feel is secondary since they bought it already. Price is also a misnomer, since you get one for free, and the rest for full price at time of pass purchase which makes it attractive.

Consumers also want hard numbers. Take Borderlands 2 as an example, they added more but they knew they were getting four major DLCs. When the extra character came out it changed things and people got pissed not because of the character, but because it was outside what was promised and had to pay full price for.

You can promise more or less all you want, at the end of the day that is honestly irrelevent if you have a plan and make it known to people what it is. If they do a season pass the only binding contract from that is the X amount of DLC guarenteed we paid for. If they dont deliver then its fair game to criticize heavily for mistreatment. That has yet to happen, although Gearbox was in a sticky perdicament...

[billy the squid]

o Ventus wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Which kicks it up to the mods who have to investigate the accusation. As I said. I hope most people have half a brain and can resolve their own problems using the system tools if they were better implimented, instead I see a lot of "he offended my sensibilities*report*" 

There are 29 mods listed solely for the DAI forums. I think they can handle it.

Clearly you don't know much then.

David Gaider, Aaryn Flynn, Mark Darrah, Ninja Stan, Fernando Melo, Kevin Lynch, Allan Schumacher, Blair Brown, RaenImrahl, John Epler, Fozee, Selene Moonsong, Moofu, Joulupukkis, SkyMarshallArts, Lion Martinez, Bryan Johnson, BioWareMod01, BioWareMod02, BioWareMod03, BioWareMod04, BioWareMod05, The Evil Chris

The crossed out ones are actually Bioware employees and they don't often come on the forums, their not even designated community mods, there ar more on this list who are employees I believe, but deal with different language forums.

The bolded ones also run the MP forums and all other forums.

The rest are community mods, and aren't there all the time. Stan and Raen are the only ones I see with any regularity.

Still think there are mods to handle every big girl reporting anything which get's their panties in a twist?

Modifié par billy the squid, 02 août 2013 - 08:36 .

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

To be fair, that was in the earliest infancy of DLC. Pricing models, fan perception, relative adoption rates, etc. were all little more than crapshoots.

BioWare got it just about right with the NWN Premium Modules, but Atari didn't get it and cancelled them.

Yes. As much as I really disliked NWN, as a game, the entire business model for that is one I wholeheartedly support.

Game creation toolset + professionally made sample campaign AS the game to be purchased
Then professionally made modules you can purchase piecemeal later?

Perfection.

Everything from horse armor to from the ashes, however?

Seriously flawed.

Subscription models only make sense for certain things...

something like Netflix or radio, where you either have so much content you could NEVER consume it all OR new content is added daily, that's good for subscriptions.

Very limited content and/or very infrequent updates to content? That's bad for subscription models.

Season Pass is such a weird concept.
For The Walking Dead, where you knew you were getting 5 episodes, sure.
Stuff like L.A. Noire or even DA:I, where you might know one or two things coming down the pipe but are just hoping for more in the future? Not so sure.

It's like a pre-purchased discount bundle... for an uncertain number of goods.

In the long run, it might save most purchases some cash. But once established as a given like DLC seems to be, what is preventing companies from selling Season Passes then cancelling later DLC (for whatever reason)? Nothing.

---

I'm trying to look at Season Passes as either pre-orders or crowd-funding, but if fails on both accounts. It doesn't measure up. It's more like "donate money to company Y in name of game Z, and Y will in return give you all the further add-ons for Z... but Y isn't promising how many or what kinds of add-ons there will be."

IF a Season Pass came with a guarantee - you will get these three DLC, that sold individually will cost more than the Season Pass - and they offered a refund if they failed to deliver on 2/3rd's of that promise (or however much is equal to the Season Pass cost)...

then I still wouldn't like it, but it'd make some financial and fanbase sense.

----

Have Season Passes changed from the Rockstar ones?

[In Exile]

MerinTB wrote...
Game creation toolset + professionally made sample campaign AS the game to be purchased
Then professionally made modules you can purchase piecemeal later?

The problem is that, nowadays, it's rare to see an engine done entirely in-house and/or a developer willing to eat the licensing fees to get it out there. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Consumers also want hard numbers. Take Borderlands 2 as an example, they added more but they knew they were getting four major DLCs. When the extra character came out it changed things and people got pissed not because of the character, but because it was outside what was promised and had to pay full price for.

You can promise more or less all you want, at the end of the day that is honestly irrelevent if you have a plan and make it known to people what it is. If they do a season pass the only binding contract from that is the X amount of DLC guarenteed we paid for. If they dont deliver then its fair game to criticize heavily for mistreatment. That has yet to happen, although Gearbox was in a sticky perdicament...

I guess that's where I get confused, then.

I wouldn't want to pre-order four DLC that I know next to nothing about, even if I got one free. I'd much rather pay a little extra now and know that any DLC that does come out I'd get reduced price for.

If, closer to release, a DLC I see looks stupid, I would feel less trapped than if I could say "okay, I don't have to spend $5 on this" rather than "crap, I wish I hadn't bought this pass now... I've yet to get a DLC I really wanted." If four DLC come out and you don't like two of them, you've now spent more than you would on just the two you liked. In my discount model, if the same thing happened, you would still only spend $20, the same as if you had bought them outright. There's less risk involved if you wind up being disappointed.

And, again, it doesn't pigeon hole developers into announcing their DLC plans pre-release and stick with them (or even change them to match consumer demand) come hell or high water.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 02 août 2013 - 08:49 .

[o Ventus]

billy the squid wrote...

Clearly you don't know much then.

Getting your point across CAN be done without being a c***.

The crossed out ones are actually Bioware employees and they don't often come on the forums, their not even designated community mods.

By himself, I've seen Allan around quite often, across 3 or 4 different boards.

The bolded ones also run the MP forums and all other forums.

Okay? 

Still think there are mods to handle every big girl reporting anything which get's their panties in a twist?

Yes, considering how quick and often the bot mods crack down.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Just came here to say this thread is pure gold in terms of insults.

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Consumers also want hard numbers. Take Borderlands 2 as an example, they added more but they knew they were getting four major DLCs. When the extra character came out it changed things and people got pissed not because of the character, but because it was outside what was promised and had to pay full price for.

You can promise more or less all you want, at the end of the day that is honestly irrelevent if you have a plan and make it known to people what it is. If they do a season pass the only binding contract from that is the X amount of DLC guarenteed we paid for. If they dont deliver then its fair game to criticize heavily for mistreatment. That has yet to happen, although Gearbox was in a sticky perdicament...

I guess that's where I get confused, then.

I wouldn't want to pre-order four DLC that I know next to nothing about, even if I got one free. I'd much rather pay a little extra now and know that any DLC that does come out I'd get reduced price for.

If, closer to release, a DLC I see looks stupid, I would feel less trapped than if I could say "okay, I don't have to spend $5 on this" rather than "crap, I wish I hadn't bought this pass now... I've yet to get a DLC I really wanted." If four DLC come out and you don't like two of them, you've now spent more than you would on just the two you liked. In my discount model, if the same thing happened, you would still only spend $20, the same as if you had bought them outright. There's less risk involved if you wind up being disappointed.

And, again, it doesn't pigeon hole developers into announcing their DLC plans pre-release and stick with them (or even change them to match consumer demand) come hell or high water.

That's you though. I'm speaking in general terms. Most people don't want to pay extra and pay a reduced price for them later, they want to pay it in ful and get the one free.

Is it illogical? Maybe. Practical, depends on who you ask. Does it work though? Yep. 

It's not that your model is bad, most people simply want instant gratificationright off the bat and are willing to pay for it.

[Fast Jimmy]

IF a Season Pass came with a guarantee - you will get these three DLC, that sold individually will cost more than the Season Pass - and they offered a refund if they failed to deliver on 2/3rd's of that promise (or however much is equal to the Season Pass cost)...

then I still wouldn't like it, but it'd make some financial and fanbase sense.

This, to my knowledge, IS the Season Pass model as it exists today. They promise the exact number and type of DLC included that you are pre-purchasing.

The problems have been a few. First, that DLC has come out that isn't in that description and costs money BEFORE the DLC listed in the Season Pass was complete (Borderlands 2). Second, due to scope creep and other issues, promised DLC didn't get made, with nothing more than "sorry, our bad guys" (Saints Row 3). Third is the DLC promised doesn't really match up to what was expected, where a campaign was imagined by fans but a simple survival/horde mode was what was delivered (Bioshock Infinite - although, to their credit, this seems like a stop-gap DLC meant to transition to a full DLC set to take place in Rapture).

When pre-paid expectations meet unsatisfying realities, the model really takes it on the chin.

Which is why, again, I'd advocate a Season Pass model that works only as a discount for any and all DLC, announced at pre-release or not. AND to package it for free with pre-orders of the base game.

Since the industry lives and dies by pre-orders, just imagine how much that would boost first week sales if you included a discount on all future DLC for the game, a discount that would cost $10 after the release (and, of course, every DLC would cost you $10, at a minimum, without the discount at all).

I think that would be a very profitable model to try out. And it can also make it much easier to fly the ever-so-dangerous $15 DLC. After all, if most of your hardcore fans pre-ordered, then most will also stick around for DLC. If they are paying a mere $2.50 more for a $15 DLC rather than the full $5 more, that's a much easier sell. And the developer gets their fix of pre-order steroids to their sales, while also moving much more volume with millions of owners having the discount (and, as I tried to demonstrate in the other DLC thread, more volume in software, especially DLC, balloons to higher profit margins much better than higher sticker prices) and results in a win-win for them as well.

It makes fans happy, because you are pushing on them a discount instead of a paid commodity (and, again, if you can give it away for free with all pre-orders, you've built mountains of consumer confidence) like a D1DLC. It keeps them engaged with all DLC, making them les likely to sell back their copy and lose money to Used games. Fans aren't on the hook for content they don't want and can choose to use their discount as little or as often as they want. Developers are free to chase their own DLC plans and not have to worry about sticking to any pre-release promises, while also having more money in the bank.

I'm really having trouble seeing where the negative comes in. Again, ESPECIALLY if such a ndisciunt was included with pre-orders.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 02 août 2013 - 09:10 .

[Fast Jimmy]

It's not that your model is bad, most people simply want instant gratificationright off the bat and are willing to pay for it.

Well, if coupled with Bioware's current DLC model, I'd say if they promoted the discount passes right alongside a piece of DLC that would be coming out in the near future (instead of Day One), you could generate enough buzz to seal the deal on those type of passes.

"Pre-order and get all your DLC for half priced, including this nifty looking extra companion set to be release October 2014!"

I could see the two working in tandem as being quite effective.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 02 août 2013 - 09:17 .

[Ash Wind]

Absolutely no chance in hell.

DAO: Promise: DLC content for 2 years... Excuse: DA2 happened (chuckles)
DA2: Exalted March... Excuse: Its being integrated into DAI

The one constant in the DA universe is the fact that Promises made by BW team with respect to DLC mean little or next to nothing. BW has zero credibility when it comes to DLC promises. Period. DAO's promise meant nothing to them. With respect to DA2, who could blame them, the core game was so bad they couldn't come out with a DLC for 6 months, and even then, the limits of DA2 made its DLC pointless.

No, I wouldn't pay in advance for anything the DA team handles, until they prove that their word has some semblance of meaning and that they won't abandon DAI... because DA4 happened.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 03 août 2013 - 08:11 .

[XGrlGamerX]

Bioware basically owns my soul, so why not....

Seriously though, I always end up getting the DLC anyways. It would be nice to just buy one thing in advance to save me and others the trouble and money.

[Fast Jimmy]

Ash Wind wrote...

Absolutely no chance in hell.

DAO: Promise: DLC content for 2 years... Excuse: DA2 happened (chuckles)
DA2: Exalted March... Excuse: Its being integrated into DAI

The one constant in the DA universe is the fact that Promises made by BW team with respect to DLC mean little or next to nothing. BW has zero credibility when it comes to DLC promises. Period. DAO's promise meant nothing to them. With respect to DA2, who could blame them, the core game was so bad they couldn't come out with a DLC for 6 months, and even then, the limits of DA2 made its DLC pointless.

No, I wouldn't pay in advance for anything the DA team handles, until they prove that their word has some semblance of meaning and that they won't abandon DAI... because DA4 happened.

There still was five DLC for DA:O and three for DA2. That's been as much, if not more, than what other developers are promising with their Season Pass. 

[David7204]

BioWare makes DLC: It must be because they're greedy, incompetent, lazy pricks!

BioWare decides not to make DLC: It must be because they're greedy, incompetent, lazy pricks!

[Alysteran]

If I could get a Season Pass for DAI, I would buy it very fast. xD