51 réponses à ce sujet

[Secretlyapotato]

I'm a bit curious as to why they let Sigrun and other women that she was talking about into the Legion of the Dead. :3 You pretty much see them dragging her off with the intent of turning her into a broodmother, seems like a pretty unnecessary risk when broodmothers can just birth thousands of more darkspawn, possibly more than they ever kill.

I was gonna say Grey Wardens as well, but I forgot that they're immune to the taint so I guess they can't be broodmothers?

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 02 août 2013 - 01:50 .

[Bionuts]

Do you have something against women? Misogynist?

[Secretlyapotato]

Bionuts wrote...

Do you have something against women? Misogynist?

-.-

[Am1vf]

I'm not sure dwarves, or anyone else besides the greywardens, know how broodmothers are made.

[Azrielon]

I would imagine that they allow them in because the idea is that they die before the darkspawn have a chance to do that to them. We saw that Sigrun wasn't completely sold on the whole dieing part of the legion quite yet (she did get over that hang up rather quickly however, or at least it seemed like it to me, that could just be the game time though), which would explain why she was captured. They could have simply overwhelmed her sufficiently enough for capture as well I suppose.

Another theory could be that the creation of the broodmothers may not be knowledge that the average dwarf or even Legion member has (please correct me if I'm wrong on this point, I don't remember anything mentioning it but that doesn't mean that I didn't miss something). It would be nice to see more of the Legion and interact with them more, if we go back into the Deep Roads in Inquisition.

Modifié par Azrielon, 01 août 2013 - 11:21 .

[Secretlyapotato]

Azrielon wrote...

Another theory could be that the creation of the broodmothers may not be knowledge that the average dwarf or even Legion member has (please correct me if I'm wrong on this point, I don't remember anything mentioning it but that doesn't mean that I didn't miss something). It would be nice to see more of the Legion and interact with them more, if we go back into the Deep Roads in Inquisition.

Idk about average dwarves but Sigrun does know that they were intending to turn her into a broodmother and, I think, she said it happened to one of her friends in the Legion IIRC.

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 01 août 2013 - 11:25 .

[Azrielon]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

Idk about average dwarves but Sigrun does know that they were intending to turn her into a broodmother and, I think, she said it happened to one of her friends in the Legion IIRC.

Ah, my bad then, been a while since I played Awakening and couldn't remember if she ever specified what they were going to do or just referencing the common rumors.

edit.

I'd also mention that seeing as how often dwarves have to deal with darkspawn (they made it sound like a near constant threat in Orzamar during Origins), I would expect that it may be seen as worth the risk, especially to a group like the Legion.

Modifié par Azrielon, 01 août 2013 - 11:33 .

[rapscallioness]

well, i don't think ppl are exactly lining up to become wardens or legions. so they prolly take all the help they can get, and hope they get killed before they turn broody.

i miss Sigrun.

[thats1evildude]

Sigrun was a skilled fighter, and the darkspawn don't have a 100 per cent success rate with converting female captives to broodmothers. The situation in Orzammar isn't so great that they can afford to turn away strong recruits for the Legion of the Dead because they MIGHT be captured and MIGHT be tainted.

[In Exile]

Assuming dwarves even know about what broodmothers are, which isn't entirely clear, the legion seems to be the type that would commit suicide before actually been abused and tainted into a broodmother.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

Also, we don't know when Sigrun found out about broodmothers and how they are created. Non-casteless dwarves aren't exactly running to educate the dwellers of Dust Town on the details of darkspawn reproduction. IMHO Sigrun didn't find out until she'd been in the Legion and the Deep Roads.

[Maria Caliban]

Am1_vf wrote...

I'm not sure dwarves, or anyone else besides the greywardens, know how broodmothers are made.

Why wouldn't the Grey Wardens tell the Legion of the Dead this? You'd think they'd want it to be well-known.

[ladyiolanthe]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

I was gonna say Grey Wardens as well, but I forgot that they're immune to the taint so I guess they can't be broodmothers?

Well... it turns out they aren't really immune, though, doesn't it? They just have an extremely delayed reaction to the taint. They'll turn into something like ghouls eventually, if they don't get killed when they go on their Calling. Soooo... I totally think this is why, as Alistair mentions soon after you meet him, the Grey Wardens don't count many women among their ranks. Too risky when they go on their Calling.

As to why the Legion of the Dead and the Grey Wardens allow any women in at all, in light of how Broodmothers are made, I suppose they're playing the odds.

How many darkspawn is a skilled fighting woman going to be able to take down over the course of her lifetime?

VS

What are the chances that she won't die in combat and the darkspawn can put her through the Broodmother transformation process?

Maybe they figure the risk is worth it? Although with the Grey Warden habit of wandering alone into the Dark Roads, I think the chance of a female being put through the transformation might be higher, she has to be fed non-darkspawn humanoid meat, according to Hespith's creepy little poem.  So, if she doesn't have anyone with her, maybe the transformation can't take place. I don't know.

I do know that, after their jaunt in the Deep Roads while trying to sort out the Dwarven succession, all my female Wardens must suffer nightmares about becoming Broodmothers, in addition to the usual warden dreams, though...

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 02 août 2013 - 01:31 .

[legbamel]

Ooh, yes, broodmother nightmares 

You make an excellent point about their needing to be cannibalistic for the ritual.  I don't know if a captured human or elf can be fed tainted dwarf meat and still have it work or not.  If not, that would make it nigh impossible to create a broodmother from a female Warden unless another Warden or really stupid human happened to be wandering nearby in the Deep Roads.  If so, they'd still have to capture a dwarf and keep him alive long enough to taint him before they feed him to her and she'd still have to survive the process.

Gah!  More nightmares! 

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Why wouldn't the Grey Wardens tell the Legion of the Dead this? You'd think they'd want it to be well-known.

You'd think they'd tell the armies of Ferelden that the only thing that can end the Blight is a GW killing an archdemon, but they find a way to surprise you. 

[andy6915]

My headcanon is that female dwarven soldiers who fight darkspawn have "suicide on capture" orders. If you're caught then you're dead anyway, at least by killing yourself early you make sure you aren't made into a sick mockery of yourself as you pump out darkspawn children. It makes sense too, one woman getting caught equals hundreds of new darkspawn. That kind of ratio means that suicide is the better option. Granted it's not really enforcable, but who wouldn't want to die if the choices were either to die or become a broodmother?

So yeah, Legion of the Dead and woman soldiers know: Kill yourself if you're caught and have no chance of escape. Sigrun wasn't truly captured yet so she was fine, but if they had managed to officially capture her somehow then she too would have killed herself. Of course, the best way that dwarven woman are taught is to just fight so hard that the darkspawn can't do anything EXCEPT try to kill you as fast as possible. Fight so hard that a live capture is just plain not feasible. But if you fail at that, there's only one option left.

Modifié par andy69156915, 02 août 2013 - 06:19 .

[Fredward]

If they know I assume it's a case of "we're shooting you in the throat" if there's any chance a darkspawn could drag them off. And if everyone except the females are dead I'd expect them to do their best to choke on their own tongue.

Kind of a raw deal.

[andy6915]

Also, dwarves definitely know about broodmothers. Rica says something like "the deep roads are more empty then usual but the breeding sites are bigger then ever, which is the usual pattern of a blight". Now what is a darkspawn breeding site? Broodmother nests. If they know that the breeding sites are getting larger and more common, they KNOW what the breeders of darkspawn are.

[andy6915]

Thinking about it, Ostagar was probably a significant breeding victory for the darkspawn. There were a LOT of woman soldiers at Ostagar, and Morrigan said they were dragging survivors underground (the woman to make into broodmothers and the men to feed said broodmothers). Human soldiers have no idea about broodmothers and so of course won't have the suicide on capture orders. In short, probably a large amount of the woman at Ostagar were made into broodmothers. They probably got at least 100 new broodmothers out of that one battle, and that's conservative.

[Rolling Flame]

Beggars can't be choosers, I guess. I don't imagine people are lining up to be Grey Wardens or serve in the Legion, so they'd have to take everyone they can get.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

I'm a bit curious as to why they let Sigrun and other women that she was talking about into the Legion of the Dead. :3 You pretty much see them dragging her off with the intent of turning her into a broodmother, seems like a pretty unnecessary risk when broodmothers can just birth thousands of more darkspawn, possibly more than they ever kill.

I was gonna say Grey Wardens as well, but I forgot that they're immune to the taint so I guess they can't be broodmothers?

DG posted here once implying strongly that a female Grey Warden's infertility would make her unsuitable as a broodmother. I took this to mean that f!Grey Warden doesn't pose a risk in the field of creating darkspawn babies, though he left it unclear whether or not the darkspawn would recognise this and/or still attempt to 'turn' captured female Wardens.

However, I am dubious as to whether the Grey Wardens themselves know this fact. If they don't, it would seem to be incredibly reckless to allow female Wardens to go off into the Deep Roads on their Calling.

That said, as far as the Legion goes, I agree with you. But maybe the dwarves believe that the darkspawn numbers are so high anyway, 'one more broodmother' won't matter. And it's not like dwarven ladies are the only ones down there. :/

Edit: That could be one more reason why the Legion of Steel (the golems) was such a Big Deal. As horrible as the transformation process was and as convenient an evil as it could be, as far as we know the golems could not neither afflicted by the Taint nor turned into darkspawn factory outlets. 

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 02 août 2013 - 07:34 .

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Bionuts wrote...

Do you have something against women? Misogynist?

And here we have the standard reply on the Bioware social site on every discussion about female characters ever. Aargh.

I think they'd have a ''fall on your sword in case of impending defeat'' policy.

[ladyiolanthe]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
DG posted here once implying strongly that a female Grey Warden's infertility would make her unsuitable as a broodmother. I took this to mean that f!Grey Warden doesn't pose a risk in the field of creating darkspawn babies, though he left it unclear whether or not the darkspawn would recognise this and/or still attempt to 'turn' captured female Wardens.

Sometimes, I really wish a moderator in cooperation with someone(s) really patient could put together some forum 'sticky' threads (which always remain at the top of each forum section) with things devs have posted that flesh out DA lore. The BSN is so huge that it can be really difficult to search for a single quote from a single dev that might have been written years ago.

I dream of having stickies for Grey Wardens, Templars, Seekers, Mages, Darkspawn, etc. in which we could look these things up!  

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 02 août 2013 - 04:25 .

[Ziggeh]

Rolling Flame wrote...

Beggars can't be choosers, I guess. I don't imagine people are lining up to be Grey Wardens or serve in the Legion, so they'd have to take everyone they can get.

Indeed.

If you're fighting an endless attritive war in which you've lost all but a single city you probably don't get too picky about who you recruit. Maybe it hurts you longer term, but if your enemies numbers are seemingly infinite, seemingly infinite plus some is still seemingly infinite.