51 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Practical terms, I doubt the writers would be keen on locking a gender out of a cool role.

[legbamel]

Even if they don't know how Darkspawn reproduce the Wardens know their female members are as incapable of having children as the men by the time they succumb to the Calling. Perhaps they arenMt concerned about it for that reason.

[JCAP]

the answers is one of these:

- Or it's a plot-hole/oversight from the writers; if the average person knows that the Darkspawn use females to turn into more broodmothers, they for pure logic wouldn't allow females to fight agaisnt them.

- Or the females from the Legion are expected to commit suicide if they are about to be captured;

- Or that isn't a common knowledge, but it would be silly because the Grey Wardens know about that and, I think, they would share that knowledge with the world, or at least with the legion.

Modifié par JCAP, 02 août 2013 - 08:33 .

[ladyiolanthe]

legbamel wrote...

Even if they don't know how Darkspawn reproduce the Wardens know their female members are as incapable of having children as the men by the time they succumb to the Calling. Perhaps they arenMt concerned about it for that reason.

We don't really know what the actual mechanism behind Grey Warden sterility is, aside from "it has something to do with the taint." I have seen a dev quote saying that two Grey Wardens could have a kid together if they were willing to use magic. What we can conclude from this is that, where magic is involved, pretty much anything can happen.

If someone can find a dev quote that states Grey Warden women can't become broodmothers, please post a link - I'd love to read what s/he has to say. Otherwise, I have to question how being incapable of having normal children is proof that they are also incapable of having horrible monstrous children after undergoing a cannibalistic blood magicky mutation ritual. If you think about it, the Joining ritual is not much different from the cannibalistic blood magicky broodmother mutation ritual that Hespith describes. Eat/drink tainted blood? Female Grey Wardens have done that. They just need to be fed more tainted blood and meat, brutally violated, etc. It seems to me like, far from conferring immunity to broodmother mutation, the Joining ritual means Grey Warden woman have already set one foot down that road. Maybe that's actually why they can't have normal children? Who knows.

[PsychoBlonde]

thats1evildude wrote...
The situation in Orzammar isn't so great that they can afford to turn away strong recruits for the Legion of the Dead because they MIGHT be captured and MIGHT be tainted.

The Legion of the Dead doesn't have recruits.  Dwarves either volunteer for it or they are basically forced into it in order to wipe away some stain on their name--they are considered to be already dead, hence the name.

There could be a lot of explanations for why the dwarves don't keep females away from the darkspawn at all costs.  It may be politically unpalatable for one reason or another.  

I know if I were running the war, the minute I found out how Broodmothers were created there would be a standing order to NEVER allow ANY female to be captured alive and no females would EVER be allowed to join the army against them.  Equality is all well and good when the results actually ARE equal.  When the difference between men and women being captured is along the lines of "maybe 1 more ghoul" and "maybe 1000 more darkspawn" guess what, ladies, YOU ARE OUT.

[PsychoBlonde]

ladyiolanthe wrote...

If someone can find a dev quote that states Grey Warden women can't become broodmothers, please post a link - I'd love to read what s/he has to say.

David Gaider insinuated that it's quite possible for a Grey Warden to become a broodmother should she not get herself killed before the corruption became advanced.  That, and it's probably a good thing that Wardens are largely infertile.

[Boycott Bioware]

I am just curious, if the taint could mutate women into broodmothers, why can't mutate men the same way become broodfathers?

Maybe the darkspawn just not interested with men, or they are not gay

[Maria Caliban]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I know if I were running the war, the minute I found out how Broodmothers were created there would be a standing order to NEVER allow ANY female to be captured alive and no females would EVER be allowed to join the army against them.

Drakspawn don't just attack armies. They also attack regular towns and villages, which will have more women in them than any army.

You're just reducing the size of your fighting force while not depriving the Darkspawn of anything.

Qistina wrote...

I am just curious, if the taint could mutate women into broodmothers, why can't mutate men the same way become broodfathers?

Then what would the broothmothers eat? They appear to require a massive amount of food during the transformation.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 août 2013 - 10:15 .

[Maria Caliban]

ladyiolanthe wrote...

If someone can find a dev quote that states Grey Warden women can't become broodmothers, please post a link - I'd love to read what s/he has to say.

No one one this forum provides quotes or links. They just tell you what they remember or what someone else told them.

DG: They always knew about Broodmothers, but they didn't know where Broodmothers came from. Knowing that...wow, I hadn't really considered whether they'd stop doing the Calling. I think if anything it makes it more problematic for female Wardens to do the Calling. That may be something we could incorporate into the future.

It'd be an interesting question. Let's say a female Grey Warden starts to hear her Calling and says "Well, my time has come" and the rest of the Wardens say no, you can't go. You're a woman. You don't deserve to take part in what has been long, for many centuries, held as an honorable tradition, as a way for the Grey Wardens to go out in a way where they retain...I don't know if you read The Calling, the novel. The reason they do the Calling is because there's a tipping point at which the corruption in them starts to affect them physically, so rather than become some kind of ghoul they want to die while they still have their humanity, doing what they've spent the majority of their life dedicated to, killing darkspawn, one last hurrah.

To go to a woman and say "No, you can't have this honorable ending because of what might happen to you." I think that would be an interesting story. I think in the end it might be up to the individual Warden. I could definitely see a female Warden who would rather kill herself than allow for the possibility that she could be transformed into a Broodmother.

Interview with David Gaider at Thedas UK Con.

[ladyiolanthe]

Thank you, Maria! Much appreciated.

[PsychoBlonde]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You're just reducing the size of your fighting force while not depriving the Darkspawn of anything.
 

Towns and villages can be designed to be defensible or to have evacuation options.  An army cannot sit in a defensible position if it wants to do anything useful--it must go on the assault.

Precautions are never 100% effective, but that doesn't mean it's 100% worthless to take them, either.  Even if you only cut down female abductions by 50%, that's 50% fewer darkspawn you have to face.

Assuming, of course, that broodmothers are the ONLY source of darkspawn.  This may prove to be inaccurate.

[Potato Cat]

Aren't Broodmothers made by cannibalising tainted human meat? So most people wouldn't turn to that unless they thought it was the only way to survive. However the Legion think they're already dead, so what would be the point in staying alive. Obviously, some might break down and eat, but most probably wouldn't. Especially if they were aware of what they would become.

[Reznore57]

I'm not sure you always have a choice about the menu , Elfman.
If i remember correctly it's really violent ,they may be rapped and probably forcefed some darkspawn blood or whatever so they get tainted.

The Mother was crazy , Hespith was slowly losing it ...

[Wulfram]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

There could be a lot of explanations for why the dwarves don't keep females away from the darkspawn at all costs.  It may be politically unpalatable for one reason or another.  

Well, the general view of the dwarves is apparently quite against women warriors anyway.  Shutting down the Silent Sisters might be impossible because they're emulating a paragon, but it seems like there's loads of people who'd like to stop women fighting already.

edit:  Unless that's been tweaked - DA:O seemed more keen on seeing female warriors as exceptions than DA2, though DA:O itself was a bit inconsistent.

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 août 2013 - 11:15 .

[lady_v23]

The blight is devouring the nation. You as the warden have to form an alliance with the circle, elves etc. To even have s a chance at fighting the dark spawn. And you want to prohibit females from joining a certain group because of the what ifs? ...right. nice logic!

That's like saying that we should prohibited female soldiers from fighting dark spawn. They could surely be captured and turn into brood mothers! So we shall fight with only half of our force, because we just can't take the risk!. No really. Lovely idea.

[ladyiolanthe]

Filament, thanks for that link, too!

[Todd23]

Even when girls give up there lives to dent the tide of darkness they windup doing more bad than good. Perhaps there should be a series of towers to keep them under surveillance...

Edit: jk

Modifié par Todd23, 03 août 2013 - 07:33 .

[Secretlyapotato]

lady_v23 wrote...

That's like saying that we should prohibited female soldiers from fighting dark spawn. They could surely be captured and turn into brood mothers! So we shall fight with only half of our force, because we just can't take the risk!. No really. Lovely idea.

It's not "half", female dwarven soldiers aren't very common anyway. The soldiers in the Deeproads during the Dwarf Noble Origin are all male, as are the Orgrimmar guards and the Legion of the Dead that are present with Kardol. Female Grey Wardens aren't very common either, in DAII there's large groups of wardens shown but the only women are Janeka and possibly Bethany.

[lady_v23]

Right. You're still reducing your force. And if you combine all the females from every race, group. They most likely make about 25% of the entire army. Anything less and I just know you're bull****ting me.

[Magdalena11]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

That's like saying that we should prohibited female soldiers from fighting dark spawn. They could surely be captured and turn into brood mothers! So we shall fight with only half of our force, because we just can't take the risk!. No really. Lovely idea.

It's not "half", female dwarven soldiers aren't very common anyway. The soldiers in the Deeproads during the Dwarf Noble Origin are all male, as are the Orgrimmar guards and the Legion of the Dead that are present with Kardol. Female Grey Wardens aren't very common either, in DAII there's large groups of wardens shown but the only women are Janeka and possibly Bethany.

There are other female Wardens mentioned if you read The Calling, specifically Utha (appears in Awakening), Genevieve and Fiona.  I personally think the lack of representative presence has more to do with the general scarcity of female warriors of all types and less to do with the danger of them becoming broodmothers.  Remember that Alsitair has only been a warden about 6 months before he meets the Warden and there are few wardens in Ferelden.  He's scarcely an authority.  In The Stolen Throne, some of the Legion of the Dead fighters that Maric encounters in the Deep Roads are female.  For that matter, some of the support staff preparing meals and burying the slain are male.

[wolfhowwl]

If the Grey Wardens know how broodmothers are created and aren't telling people they are completely incompetent.

Knowing that a single captured woman could produce thousands of Darkspawn is certainly something the national armies would like to know when deploying troops and evacuating areas.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 04 août 2013 - 10:52 .

[Ianamus]

If I remember correctly Grey Wardens live for roughly 30 years before their calling, so many female wardens on their calling would be in their late forties or early fifties, maybe even older. Since a lot of women of that age aren't able to bear children they may be too old to be turned into broodmothers, in which case the calling isn't any more dangerous for them than the men.

I'm not sure about the Dwarves. I'd imagine that since they are already struggling to hold their ground they can't exactly automatically limit their fighting numbers to 50% of the population. The conditions for creating a broodmother also seemed very specific and with a high chance of failure. Branka took a complete house with her into the deep roads and it seemed that only one broodmother was created from them, so I doubt one or two females being taken on their own would pose any threat at all.

Modifié par EJ107, 04 août 2013 - 10:55 .