9 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKristoffski]

I just came across this report/blog/interview on the majestical inter-webs discussing the 'toxic like' response and hatred fueled towards gaider.

Now I'm going to be dead on true when I say that I think David gaider is a wonderful man and exceptional talented writer and if I may even a role model for myself. I can understand the backlash and anger vented from DAII (which is entirely not the point of this post and a game I very much have enjoyed playing multiple times). But it sickens me on the disgusting filth some people write to not only David, but other bioware devs too. If we, as gamers, have learnt anything from past events concerning the hate and anger fueled towards bioware devs, is that we are not talking to robots or ignorant people or hell, even tranquils. We are talking to real breathing, human beings who have feelings and if but anything end up soaking up all the blighted hate and fester into corrupted darkspawn (negative feelings etc)

I think we should be more than wary to ensure that this kinda of behaviour (albeit has slowly vented away) to ever happen again towards bioware devs.

David, we love you and I can't wait for dragon age inquisition  


Here's the post if anyone's interested (report/interview on gaider) :http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-10-biowares-increasingly-toxic-forum-repels-dragon-age-writer-david-gaider

[Angrywolves]

That's not new.
That's months old.

[giveamanafish...]

It would be interesting to find out the age and employment status of the Gaider DA 2 ME 3 haters. It has been theorized that recent reductions in crime rates in many first world countries are related to the greater availability of relatively cheap video games. With the recent serious economic depression, you would normally expect crime to increase, especially among youth who tend to be the worst effected during these crisis. This has largely not occurred in developed market economies, again possibly because of video games. In the middle-east, mostly middle income countries, this has been an issue: one key factor in the Arab spring besides the lack of democratic rights has been mass youth unemployment.

so what I'm saying is maybe all this hate is the BSN version of the Arab spring (w/o denigrating the importance of the democratic impulse behind these movements), at least as a form of release for frustrated youth. In addition I wonder if Gaider etc. by being the brunt of all this hate is doing a public service, being an outlet for people who haven't yet found a sane and productive path to adulthood.

Modifié par ismoketoomuch, 08 août 2013 - 04:31 .

[xnode]

the internet comments you take with a grain of salt, I developed in one game that got rammed in reviews and personal attacks to the team. I never took it personally I knew the game sucked for many reasons. It wasn't my choice to change things thou. Did I make the team aware and the company? You bet, most devs do. BUT I remember this one comment from my team lead that said "The main designer believes this is the best way , maybe we will change that or add that in the future, but for now we are following his output" and that was the downfall.

No thought to discussion and saying "hey this might actually not work" or "this sucks", fact is many devs hands are tied. The outcry's against a company is actually good. I use SimCity and DA2 as prime examples. People put out their thoughts on them and now both are changing for good reasons. Without those crys and complaints, the game would be doomed to repeat and fail upon release. If anything you should actually be grateful to the masses for complaining. HOWEVER....

There is a point to complaining, for I would say, the first few months as a developer I would watch, after that I could care less what you had to say. It's not that I don't care what the fans say, it's just the same old same old. Beating a dead horse so to speak (that is happening at SimCity atm) but alas, feedback is always good. Sadly most leads are now almost obligated to have twitter accounts and other media outlet connections not because they want them, it's because the owners above them believe that's the new way to reach a larger and bigger fan base/market. Trust me on this, if we didn't have to have twitters as representing to the company we work for most would not.

No,. I don't work for nor have I ever worked for Bioware /EA, but I know the business and I can say the above with very much insight to what I believe is the bases of the good and bad in such things as community relations. I am a coder by trade.

[Sparse]

xnode wrote...
fact is many devs hands are tied.

So true. I bet that the DA 2 (and ME3 for that matter) devs could have given a much better critque of the problems in the games that any of the fans did. Like you say, they are just people doing a job, they cannot make too much of a fuss and ultimately have to do as they are told.

Sadly most leads are now almost obligated to have twitter accounts and other media outlet connections not because they want them, it's because the owners above them believe that's the new way to reach a larger and bigger fan base/market. Trust me on this, if we didn't have to have twitters as representing to the company we work for most would not.

That's true for most industries and the most amusing thing is that there is absolutely no evidence to back up the idea that Twitter accounts benefit companies at all. In fact one of the reasons that Twitter doesn't make all that much money is that it is a terrible forum for both marketing and advertising.

In the case of Bioware they'd probably be much better off with less exposure for their employees, that caused issues with DA2 and particularly with ME3. Ultimately it is rather unfair to expect people who are not trained in marketing and PR to directly interact with both customers and the media.

[Endurium]

I don't always agree with David Gaider, but I've enjoyed his writing in-game and in books.

[Ananka]

I like Gaider. He seems like a nice person and I loved the speech he gave on sex in video games. I wasn't a big fan of DA2 when it was released (although I am warming up to it now), I have complained about it as I really thought that it had several problems, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to as a consumer give criticism on a product you are unhappy with, or even express discontent with it- but there's no reason to turn it into insulting the devs or anybody else on the team.
I think Gaider is a very talented writer and I've enjoyed much of what he's done. I'm a sucker for all the romances in both DA games. I'm really looking forward to Inquisition.

Modifié par Annaka, 09 août 2013 - 10:24 .

[Angrywolves]

I respect his talent.
Don't know if I like his personality .
But he's not required to be likeable .
Just write entertaining games.

[Am1vf]

Wait what? Why would anyone hate Gaider?

I may not always agree with his opinions, but his writing is good, his forum posts are funny and his conferences and blogs are interesting. Also, he seems nice and own a cat apparently.

The internet would hate anyone it seems.

[giveamanafish...]

xnode wrote...

....Without those crys and complaints, the game would be doomed to repeat and fail upon release. If anything you should actually be grateful to the masses for complaining. HOWEVER....

There is a point to complaining, for I would say, the first few months as a developer I would watch, after that I could care less what you had to say. It's not that I don't care what the fans say, it's just the same old same old. Beating a dead horse so to speak (that is happening at SimCity atm) but alas, feedback is always good.

The problem that has occured, at least with MEIII, is that there seems to have been organized efforts at misinformation in some of the early complaints made. (Hopefully I'm allowed to draw examples from the MEIII experience). This inluded some of the early Metacritic reviews: complaints about a "homosexualist" agenda, one critic decrying the presence of a transexual (Jack? Liara? who knows). You also had complaints about the 1st day DLC which never, as far as I read, never mentioned that that DLC was available free to people who brought one of the special editions of the game (eg. what was involved was a basic and I think fair, form of product differentation). The uninformed impression I have is that some of this was part of a campaign initiated by the same people who voted EA worst company of the year and nominated Kim Jong... (N. Korea dictator) Time magazine man of the year.

There was also very early a hundreds of page long thread discussing 'Thematic Inconsistencies" in the ME3 ending. This thread was introduced by a student of what he called a 'small liberal arts college' in Australia, and was led by a prof of that college. The problem was that if you googled "Campion college Australia" you would find that "liberal arts college" was only part of the proper accurate description. Campion College is a very small liberal arts degree degree college which is solely funded by the Catholic Church and whose chair of board of drectors is a prominent Christian Conservative and power broker in the then labour government and who is well known as a anti-gay marriage campaigner (they also suffered a controversy involving an accused or convicted pedophile priest on their staff. No comment from chair). Ultimately I don't care whether someone is gay or anti-gay, as long as you stay within the bounds of the law and respect other people (although I have to say that people who are fixated on other people's sexuality creep the hell out of me). However, in the context of the ME series, which has gained noteriety for having same-sex romance options, the lack of accuracy implied a hidden agenda.

This all does go back to the point I made earlier. In tough economic times, people who have a hate-filled or nihilistic agenda can gain a lot of ground. It behooves people to think more carefully about what other people are saying and where they are coming from. Its also important for people like Gaider to try to find positive ways to respond to even the worst hate-filled commentary.

Modifié par ismoketoomuch, 11 août 2013 - 06:05 .