326 réponses à ce sujet

[Bionuts]

Reorte wrote...

There are still people who not only don't have a problem with forcing something incredibly invasive on every single living thing in the entire galaxy but actually think it's a great thing to do and would do it without a moment's hesitation? That is sickening. It's the most disgusting idea I've ever heard, far worse than the most hideous thing that's ever been done on Earth in reality (the worst crimes have only affected a small proportion of life on one planet). How dare you defend changing peoples' bodies "for the greater good" and, worse still, changing their minds (if Synthesis is supposed to achieve what it claims). There is no pit in hell deep enough for the proponents of such atrocity. Thank god it's only a game.

If health, and intelligence improves, as well as people having a better understanding of each other's perspectives, then I'm all for it. IF that's what happens.

There are worse things than forcing a positive change.

I don't put much thought into "individuality", as I see most people lacking even the most basic empathy.

"individuality" is the funniest since most people seem to be copies of one another. We are all mostly the same with some variation here and there.

[jontepwn]

Synthesis just seems insulting. It tells us that we're not good enough to handle our own problems. That we need an outside source to forcefully fix it. That kind of cynical thinking doesn't translate very well in a game like Mass Effect, in my opinion. Mass Effect was always about uniting the galaxy against a bigger threat, despite their differences. To have it all end like that, to forcefully embed every sapient being with "understanding", doesn't sit right with me.

[Bionuts]

People's lives are rarely valued, anyways. We use words like "mistake" to cover an action that has caused tremendous pain to others. Most people care little for their neighbors, let alone people around the world.

The greater majority of people do not have the credibility to preach about valuing the lives of others.

[Bionuts]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

The greater majority of people do not have the credibility to preach about valuing the lives of others.

Excuse me?

Why should the opinion of someone preaching about the value of life, on a galactic scale, hold any weight if they can't even show they value the life of the people around them? I do not know what kind of person you, or if you personally help those in need of someone.

I don't care about someone preaching of "the value of life" if they can't even show they value it.

[jontepwn]

Reflecting back on Mass Effect 3, I come back to the quote that Javik makes after you recruit him. Javik says: "You still hope that this war will end with your honor intact? Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer."

I think what Bioware were trying to accomplish was that when facing a threat as large as the Reapers, honor or morals are thrown out the door. Something as invasive and insulting as Synthesis is necessary to end the conflict. Bioware always said they wanted a bittersweet ending.

I don't agree for a second that Synthesis is a good outcome. Still, something to think about.

[essarr71]

Bionuts wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

The greater majority of people do not have the credibility to preach about valuing the lives of others.

Excuse me?

Why should the opinion of someone preaching about the value of life, on a galactic scale, hold any weight if they can't even show they value the life of the people around them? I do not know what kind of person you, or if you personally help those in need of someone.

I don't care about someone preaching of "the value of life" if they can't even show they value it.

Sooo peoples opinions shouldn't count unless they hit a charity quota?

[ruggly]

This won't start a sh*t storm or nothing.

[Bionuts]

essarr71 wrote...
Sooo peoples opinions shouldn't count unless they hit a charity quota?

There are many ways to help people beside giving to charity. It's about valuing, and respecting the lives of the people around you. You can be an ear to hear them out, give them advice, help them through personal problems. Or pick a homeless person up, and take them to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Why would I listen to a hypocrite?

[Display Name Owner]

I'm inclined to take the Geth's perspective on this particular thing. Activating a beam that instantly launches the galaxy to a state of Synthesis is just too simple and as Legion said, it blinds one to alternatives. Now I don't think that argument works everywhere, for example I think studying the Reapers and taking what you can from them after the war is a good thing, because it involves learning about their technology and reworking it, which in itself is a creative exercise. But Synthesis just feels like it's skipping over millennia of what should be measured and thought out development and advancement.

Something like this would naturally only come after ages of study and decision making. I just don't like the fact that the galaxy is denied the chance to make all those decisions, because who knows what other paths to Synthesis might have been taken and how they would have affected the final outcome? There might be many different forms Synthesis could have taken, but the galaxy would never know what possibilities they might have brought because this particular version was forced upon them.

[essarr71]

Bionuts wrote...

essarr71 wrote...
Sooo peoples opinions shouldn't count unless they hit a charity quota?

There are many ways to help people beside giving to charity. It's about valuing, and respecting the lives of the people around you. You can be an ear to hear them out, give them advice, help them through personal problems. Or pick a homeless person up, and take them to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Why would I listen to a hypocrite?

I pay taxes.  The money I contribute goes toward the next generations education, the protection of the community and maintaining it's infastructure.  This goes towards both my local township in New York and it helps out people as far away as Hawaii, not to mention the people in foreign countries protecting the interests of EVERYONE, regardless of race, religion, political affiliations, sexual preference, education level, and general disposition.  I do this gladly and I'm proud to say I'd do it. 

But since I just threw out an old pair of jeans instead of donate them, I should lose my ability to vote?

The bigger question is why I'm still reading your posts.  It was one thing when you wanted to discuss the merits of synthesis.. you're treading into a whole new area of elitist douchery now.

[Bionuts]

isnudo wrote...

I'm inclined to take the Geth's perspective on this particular thing. Activating a beam that instantly launches the galaxy to a state of Synthesis is just too simple and as Legion said, it blinds one to alternatives. Now I don't think that argument works everywhere, for example I think studying the Reapers and taking what you can from them after the war is a good thing, because it involves learning about their technology and reworking it, which in itself is a creative exercise. But Synthesis just feels like it's skipping over millennia of what should be measured and thought out development and advancement.

Something like this would naturally only come after ages of study and decision making. I just don't like the fact that the galaxy is denied the chance to make all those decisions, because who knows what other paths to Synthesis might have been taken and how they would have affected the final outcome? There might be many different forms Synthesis could have taken, but the galaxy would never know what possibilities they might have brought because this particular version was forced upon them.

Good point.

It would be bad if Synthesis is simply a galactice neutering.

[jontepwn]

isnudo wrote...

I'm inclined to take the Geth's perspective on this particular thing. Activating a beam that instantly launches the galaxy to a state of Synthesis is just too simple and as Legion said, it blinds one to alternatives. Now I don't think that argument works everywhere, for example I think studying the Reapers and taking what you can from them after the war is a good thing, because it involves learning about their technology and reworking it, which in itself is a creative exercise. But Synthesis just feels like it's skipping over millennia of what should be measured and thought out development and advancement.

Something like this would naturally only come after ages of study and decision making. I just don't like the fact that the galaxy is denied the chance to make all those decisions, because who knows what other paths to Synthesis might have been taken and how they would have affected the final outcome? There might be many different forms Synthesis could have taken, but the galaxy would never know what possibilities they might have brought because this particular version was forced upon them.

That's what Destroy is there for. A clean slate. A chance to learn from their mistakes. Geth are dead, but they can be rebuilt, and the moment they start to ask "Does this unit have a soul"? We can be there for them and be prepared to help them understand. At least that's how it is in my headcanon.

[Bionuts]

essarr71 wrote...
I pay taxes.  The money I contribute goes toward the next generations education, the protection of the community and maintaining it's infastructure.  This goes towards both my local township in New York and it helps out people as far away as Hawaii, not to mention the people in foreign countries protecting the interests of EVERYONE, regardless of race, religion, political affiliations, sexual preference, education level, and general disposition.  I do this gladly and I'm proud to say I'd do it. 

But since I just threw out an old pair of jeans instead of donate them, I should lose my ability to vote?

The bigger question is why I'm still reading your posts.  It was one thing when you wanted to discuss the merits of synthesis.. you're treading into a whole new area of elitist douchery now.

Insulting me accomplishes nothing since I made no mention of you, I simply replied to your post. I have insulted no one personally, as I know no one here, or if they practice what they preach.

I'm replying to those laying condemnation to those picking synthesis as not valuing life, which is absurd. Especially if they do little to show they value life, at all.

[essarr71]

Bionuts wrote...

Insulting me accomplishes nothing since I made no mention of you, I simply replied to your post. I have insulted no one personally, as I know no one here, or if they practice what they preach.

I'm replying to those laying condemnation to those picking synthesis as not valuing life, which is absurd. Especially if they do little to show they value life, at all.

"do little to show they value life"..  there's a difference between going about your business and being an ***hole.  Just because I didn't give the homeless guy a dollar I'm a bad person?  It's not like I kicked him.  Hell.. the fact that these people are "laying condemnation" is pretty strong evidence that they actually value life - and opinions - and are optimistic enough to believe less oppressive solutions will reveal themselves.

The hypocracy is actually someone saying they value life and then dismissing the entire system.  I'd think the overwhelming response that people wouldn't force change on someones life even seeing the potential* benefits shows just how much respect they have on other people's life and their freedom to live it as they see it.. be it a champion for the homeless or an antisocial recluse who wants nothing more in life than to watch tv on the couch all day. 

[Bionuts]

essarr71 wrote...

"do little to show they value life"..  there's a difference between going about your business and being an ***hole.  Just because I didn't give the homeless guy a dollar I'm a bad person?  It's not like I kicked him.  Hell.. the fact that these people are "laying condemnation" is pretty strong evidence that they actually value life - and opinions - and are optimistic enough to believe less oppressive solutions will reveal themselves.

The hypocracy is actually someone saying they value life and then dismissing the entire system.  I'd think the overwhelming response that people wouldn't force change on someones life even seeing the potential* benefits shows just how much respect they have on other people's life and their freedom to live it as they see it.. be it a champion for the homeless or an antisocial recluse who wants nothing more in life than to watch tv on the couch all day. 

You have resulted to putting words in my mouth, which is a sad thing.

Only you have claimed yourself to be a bad person, not I. I help as many people as I can, however, I do not consider myself to be a good person.

Condemning someone for not valuing life is hypocritical if the person preaching has no personal interest in valuing the lives of the people around them.

[Bionuts]

Fandango9641 wrote...

EDIT: I just pet a dog - what am I allowed to say again?

You are allowed to say whatever you wish. No one has told you otherwise.

[Bionuts]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

EDIT: I just pet a dog - what am I allowed to say again?

You are allowed to say whatever you wish. No one has told you otherwise.

Why thank you strange bird.

ur welkum

[essarr71]

Bionuts wrote...

You have resulted to putting words in my mouth, which is a sad thing.

Only you have claimed yourself to be a bad person, not I. I help as many people as I can, however, I do not consider myself to be a good person.

How? And who is putting words in whose mouth now?

Condemning someone for not valuing life is hypocritical if the person preaching has no personal interest in valuing the lives of the people around them.

Once again: Because I haven't hit my charity quota, how I feel about my own life and others, and my desire to allow myself and others the freedom of choice, is invalid and not worthy of consideration because I'm what?  Not trying to make a longer-lasting lightbulb in my spare time?

So, when I see a news report about some woman getting jailed for getting raped in Afganistan, I'm not allowed to condemn the practice because I'm not worthy of judging it? 

Really.  I'm curious.  You keep avoiding answering.  What does one have to do to make themselves worthy?  What's the cutoff?  I get not being a ****.  That's obvious.  But why do I have to not shove old people AND take every homeless person I meet to KFC?  What if there isnt a KFC nearby?  Do I have to drive them?  What if they don't want to get in the car?  What if they don't want the food I'm offering them?

You know who doesn't value life?  Murderers, rapists, con men, theives.  I'm not any of those.

Modifié par essarr71, 03 août 2013 - 01:51 .

[Bionuts]

essarr71 wrote...

How? And who is putting words in whose mouth now?

"one dolla, charity, bad person, not allowed to voice opinion", or perhaps you're arguing to yourself?

Once again: Because I haven't hit my charity quota, how I feel about my own life and others, and my desire to allow myself and others the freedom of choice, is invalid and not worthy of consideration because I'm what?  Not trying to make a longer-lasting lightbulb in my spare time?

This is gibberish.

So, when I see a news report about some woman getting jailed for getting raped in Afganistan, I'm not allowed to condemn the practice because I'm not worthy of judging it? 

You are not a rapist (that I believe), so condemning one would be non-hypocritical of you.

This does not parallel well with my argument, however, since I never claimed one should not be allowed to voice their opinion.

Really.  I'm curious.  You keep avoiding answering.  What does one have to do to make themselves worthy?  What's the cutoff?  I get not being a ****.  That's obvious.  But why do I have to not shove old people AND take every homeless person I meet to KFC?  What if there isnt a KFC nearby?  Do I have to drive them?  What if they don't want to get in the car?  What if they don't want the food I'm offering them?

You know who doesn't value life?  Murderers, rapists, con men, theives.  I'm not any of those.

I never claimed a world-wide silence of hypocritical opinions, but that I wouldn't respect them. For someone to be "worthy" of my respect, enough to condemn me as to not value life, they would have to take a personal interest in helping people.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

lol @ this page.


Consider this your Welcome-To-BSN moment, rookie.