Inappropriate execution. I am a fan of transhumanism in games and books but it requires the right setting/universe and story. I also dislike how it is portrayed as an instant utopia but I think it has to do that to be part of the catalyst's problem. A larger problem is that ME3 treated technology as magic. They lifted scientific terms and explanation in a few places to make things feel cool but in the story it felt more like fantasy than scifi. As time goes on I feel fewer negative emotions for the staff of Bioware and more pity for what they had to release.
Why the Hate for Synthesis? Sounds Like a Good Choice.
Débuté par
Bionuts
, août 02 2013 12:00
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:04
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
JonathonPR wrote...
Inappropriate execution. I am a fan of transhumanism in games and books but it requires the right setting/universe and story. I also dislike how it is portrayed as an instant utopia but I think it has to do that to be part of the catalyst's problem. A larger problem is that ME3 treated technology as magic. They lifted scientific terms and explanation in a few places to make things feel cool but in the story it felt more like fantasy than scifi. As time goes on I feel fewer negative emotions for the staff of Bioware and more pity for what they had to release.
This is actually pretty similar to how I feel about it. This is really accurate and a very good assesment man.
Except for the last part on negative emotions. I get the negative emotions from how they basically tried to insult my intelligence and try to get as much over the fence as possible.
#78
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:05
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
Steelcan wrote...
. I did something. I blew the Reapers to Hell.HYR 2.0 wrote...
Well yeah, that would fall under the umbrella of "pissed off by the change."
Some people don't take kindly to: death, missed opportunities, living with the enemy... you could go on, with these options. Now take the worst of all three of them and combine it into one. That... is what happens if/when you do nothing.
To quote Renegade!Shepard: "I'm not going to sit on my ass just becausethe Council*somebody* doesn't want me to do anything."
Well, seeing as this was a matter of "people don't take kindly to"-nonsense in the first place...
People don't take kindly to their girlfriend/crush being killed off. You just did that to Joker and all other robophiles in the galaxy. And what about Cerberus recruits who wanted humanity controlling the Reapers? What have you done??
What about the Reapers themselves???
You were supposed to be Santa Claus, giving everyone what they want! (Come to think of it, even Santa doesn't do that!)
#79
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:06
Steelcan
-
- Members
- 23 290 messages
I don't care a bout what the Reapers think.HYR 2.0 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
. I did something. I blew the Reapers to Hell.HYR 2.0 wrote...
Well yeah, that would fall under the umbrella of "pissed off by the change."
Some people don't take kindly to: death, missed opportunities, living with the enemy... you could go on, with these options. Now take the worst of all three of them and combine it into one. That... is what happens if/when you do nothing.
To quote Renegade!Shepard: "I'm not going to sit on my ass just becausethe Council*somebody* doesn't want me to do anything."
Well, seeing as this was a matter of "people don't take kindly to"-nonsense in the first place...
People don't take kindly to their girlfriend/crush being killed off. You just did that to Joker and all other robophiles in the galaxy. And what about Cerberus recruits who wanted humanity controlling the Reapers? What have you done??
What about the Reapers themselves???
You were supposed to be Santa Claus, giving everyone what they want! (Come to think of it, even Santa doesn't do that!)
Cerberus is beyond hope (sadly)
Didn't encourage the relationship
#80
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:07
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Yep. I chose not to act, because acting in the other two options was more terrifying and repulsive to me than simply doing nothing at all.
Even though the exact same terrifying/repulsive things happen when you don't act?
Well, better if it's done on their terms than ours.
... eh, not really.
#81
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:09
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
Steelcan wrote...
I don't care a bout what the Reapers think.
Case in point.
Cerberus is beyond hope (sadly)
But you can still fulfill their wishes, make their sacrifice "worth it" ... so to speak.
Didn't encourage the relationship
That's why I said "girlfriend/crush" and "robophiles everywhere." HYR knows what he's doing.
#82
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:11
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
HYR 2.0 wrote...
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Yep. I chose not to act, because acting in the other two options was more terrifying and repulsive to me than simply doing nothing at all.
Even though the exact same terrifying/repulsive things happen when you don't act?
Well, better if it's done on their terms than ours.
... eh, not really.
No, actually not. I'd rather the cycles continue than choosing Synthesis. At least others might have a shot at destroying the Reapers. I honestly think synthesis huskifies all life everywhere in the galaxy for all time. It reaperizes them. That's pretty terrifying, and Synthesis is so vaguely explained that my interpretation of it fits.
Hell, the only thing I think is worse than Synthesis is totally and completely render the galaxy completely devoid of any and all life of any kind permanently.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 02 août 2013 - 02:12 .
#83
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:12
Steelcan
-
- Members
- 23 290 messages
Cerberus's wishes mainly revolve around how best to help the Reapers by the end of ME3, because Walters decided having humans to shoot was more important than consistency.
#84
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:13
SiniisteR
-
- Members
- 226 messages
HYR 2.0 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
. I did something. I blew the Reapers to Hell.HYR 2.0 wrote...
Well yeah, that would fall under the umbrella of "pissed off by the change."
Some people don't take kindly to: death, missed opportunities, living with the enemy... you could go on, with these options. Now take the worst of all three of them and combine it into one. That... is what happens if/when you do nothing.
To quote Renegade!Shepard: "I'm not going to sit on my ass just becausethe Council*somebody* doesn't want me to do anything."
Well, seeing as this was a matter of "people don't take kindly to"-nonsense in the first place...
People don't take kindly to their girlfriend/crush being killed off. You just did that to Joker and all other robophiles in the galaxy. And what about Cerberus recruits who wanted humanity controlling the Reapers? What have you done??
What about the Reapers themselves???
You were supposed to be Santa Claus, giving everyone what they want! (Come to think of it, even Santa doesn't do that!)
With the power of headcanon, Shepard feels guilty for that decision, but Tali is there to reassure him.
#85
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:18
essarr71
-
- Members
- 1 890 messages
I love when people bring up Joker/EDI as a plus for synthesis.
Their relationship is built on being together despite being so drastically different and figuring out how to make it work. I don't recall any conversations with Joker or EDI wishing they were robotic/human.
Their relationship is built on being together despite being so drastically different and figuring out how to make it work. I don't recall any conversations with Joker or EDI wishing they were robotic/human.
#86
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:31
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
No, actually not. I'd rather the cycles continue than choosing Synthesis. At least others might have a shot at destroying the Reapers. I honestly think synthesis huskifies all life everywhere in the galaxy for all time. It reaperizes them. That's pretty terrifying, and Synthesis is so vaguely explained that my interpretation of it fits.
That's exactly what happens to the people of your cycle in Refuse: they're harvested. Into husks, Reapers, whatever. You get Destroyed, then Controlled (brainwashed/indoctrinated), and come back as cyborg killing machines.
Nice.
Hell, the only thing I think is worse than Synthesis is totally and completely render the galaxy completely devoid of any and all life of any kind permanently.
That and Refuse are a wash, except for knowing the Reapers are stopped in Refuse (thru metagaming).
As for the other cycles destroying the Reapers.... what if they end the cycle through Control/Sync after all?
That Refuse!Stargazer doesn't indicate they actually destroyed the Reapers. Congrats, your cycle died for nothing.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
#87
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:33
teh DRUMPf!!
-
- Members
- 9 142 messages
Say, Canswell. While I'm still at the "people don't take kindly to [x]" business, here's another one for you:
What about Auld_Wulf's great-great-grandsons that don't take kindly to synthetic genocide?
You let them down with Destroy and Rannoch. Clearly you are callous for not pleasing everyone. >=[
*edit*
brb, gotta walk the dog...
What about Auld_Wulf's great-great-grandsons that don't take kindly to synthetic genocide?
You let them down with Destroy and Rannoch. Clearly you are callous for not pleasing everyone. >=[
*edit*
brb, gotta walk the dog...
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 02 août 2013 - 02:34 .
#88
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:34
Steelcan
-
- Members
- 23 290 messages
The spawn of Auld Wulf..... don't even joke like that
#89
Posté 02 août 2013 - 02:35
spirosz
-
- Members
- 16 354 messages
Steelcan wrote...
The spawn of Auld Wulf..... don't even joke like that
#90
Posté 02 août 2013 - 03:25
MassivelyEffective0730
-
- Members
- 9 230 messages
HYR 2.0 wrote...
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
No, actually not. I'd rather the cycles continue than choosing Synthesis. At least others might have a shot at destroying the Reapers. I honestly think synthesis huskifies all life everywhere in the galaxy for all time. It reaperizes them. That's pretty terrifying, and Synthesis is so vaguely explained that my interpretation of it fits.
That's exactly what happens to the people of your cycle in Refuse: they're harvested. Into husks, Reapers, whatever. You get Destroyed, then Controlled (brainwashed/indoctrinated), and come back as cyborg killing machines.
Nice.
Really? I thought that everything, every living thing was huskified/harvested/reaped in Synthesis permanently. Not just my cycle - every cycle that is to come.
At least in Refuse, there's somebody, somewhere, at sometime to fight on. Doesn't do much to comfort me or make me feel better, but it's better than Synthesis in my opinion.
Hell, the only thing I think is worse than Synthesis is totally and completely render the galaxy completely devoid of any and all life of any kind permanently.
That and Refuse are a wash, except for knowing the Reapers are stopped in Refuse (thru metagaming).
As for the other cycles destroying the Reapers.... what if they end the cycle through Control/Sync after all?
That Refuse!Stargazer doesn't indicate they actually destroyed the Reapers. Congrats, your cycle died for nothing.
It doesn't imply synthesis either. In fact, I choose to believe that destroy did in fact happen with the next cycle. I choose to believe that the next cycle recieved their data early. So early that they didn't need the Crucible. They had their own massive anti-Reaper fleet that won the day for them.
Keep your headcanon out of mine.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 02 août 2013 - 03:26 .
#91
Posté 02 août 2013 - 03:54
AlexMBrennan
-
- Members
- 7 002 messages
Is it? Is the existence of any life no matter how miserable inherently "better" than non-existence? That's a rather controversial assertion.Hell, the only thing I think is worse than Synthesis is totally and completely render the galaxy completely devoid of any and all life of any kind permanently.
#92
Posté 02 août 2013 - 03:55
KaiserShep
-
- Members
- 23 828 messages
Well for me, the decision hinges on my acceptance of the idea that life in the galaxy is incapable of gaining understanding without some sort of forced supplement. With that idea rejected, certainly martyrdom as a follow-up would just be plain silly. Besides, the opportunity to turn Sovereign's phrase "you will end because we demand it" around on them just won't come again.
Modifié par KaiserShep, 02 août 2013 - 03:57 .
#93
Posté 02 août 2013 - 04:04
Omega Torsk
-
- Members
- 1 548 messages
Had Bioware originally included the detailed explanation for Synthesis that was in the EC and took the time to craft an appropriate epilogue, it would have been better received.
Unfortunately, they didn't.
Unfortunately, they didn't.
#94
Posté 02 août 2013 - 04:09
KaiserShep
-
- Members
- 23 828 messages
HYR 2.0 wrote...
Say, Canswell. While I'm still at the "people don't take kindly to [x]" business, here's another one for you:
What about Auld_Wulf's great-great-grandsons that don't take kindly to synthetic genocide?
You let them down with Destroy and Rannoch. Clearly you are callous for not pleasing everyone. >=[
I'm sure Shepard can pull some strings so the Alliance can send them a lifetime supply of facial tissues as consolation.
As for Rannoch, they'll be fine. They lasted for a few generations in envirosuits. They can last a bit longer. Besides, you'd think that the Quarians, engineering savants that they are, couldn't apply the same principle the geth used to stimulate the boost in their immune systems themselves.
#95
Posté 02 août 2013 - 04:11
Pee Jae
-
- Members
- 4 085 messages
Lots of points already mentioned:
1. You're forcing the "choice" on the entire galaxy.
2. Space magic. Exactly how does this change the DNA of everything in the entire universe, synthetic and organic?
3. Most people don't like the Catalyst and you're basically agreeing with what it wants to do.
It's still my canon ending, though. My canon Sheps are simply sick and tired of death. They sacrifice themselves, so everyone has a chance at life, whether they like it or not. They wouldn't choose Control because they vehemently refuse to become anything like TIM or the Catalyst and they'd never choose Destroy, simply because they're paragons and brought peace to the Quarians and Geth which flies in the face of what the Catalyst is trying to make you believe; that all synthetics will kill organics always and forever, amen. NO.
Also, EDI is a friend. They don't kill friends because the universe demands that the Reapers must die. So, Synthesis it is.
1. You're forcing the "choice" on the entire galaxy.
2. Space magic. Exactly how does this change the DNA of everything in the entire universe, synthetic and organic?
3. Most people don't like the Catalyst and you're basically agreeing with what it wants to do.
It's still my canon ending, though. My canon Sheps are simply sick and tired of death. They sacrifice themselves, so everyone has a chance at life, whether they like it or not. They wouldn't choose Control because they vehemently refuse to become anything like TIM or the Catalyst and they'd never choose Destroy, simply because they're paragons and brought peace to the Quarians and Geth which flies in the face of what the Catalyst is trying to make you believe; that all synthetics will kill organics always and forever, amen. NO.
Also, EDI is a friend. They don't kill friends because the universe demands that the Reapers must die. So, Synthesis it is.
#96
Posté 02 août 2013 - 04:14
KaiserShep
-
- Members
- 23 828 messages
In the end, I try to put aside the idea of what the Catalyst wants, because if you listen to what it says, it doesn't really want anything other than Synthesis anyway. It even says so when it tells Shepard "And I don't look forward to being replaced by you..." if you select the lower dialogue option when discussing control. If you explore the dialogue with it, it didn't want the Crucible to exist either, and says that it tried to destroy the plans for the device, and remarks that organics are more resourceful than it supposed.
Modifié par KaiserShep, 02 août 2013 - 04:16 .
#97
Posté 02 août 2013 - 04:20
o Ventus
-
- Members
- 17 256 messages
Omega Torsk wrote...
Had Bioware originally included the detailed explanation for Synthesis that was in the EC and took the time to craft an appropriate epilogue, it would have been better received.
Unfortunately, they didn't.
"Detailed"?
#98
Posté 02 août 2013 - 04:24
Omega Torsk
-
- Members
- 1 548 messages
As detailed as it was, anyway... but it could have been rectified by showing us the consequences of such an action!o Ventus wrote...
Omega Torsk wrote...
Had Bioware originally included the detailed explanation for Synthesis that was in the EC and took the time to craft an appropriate epilogue, it would have been better received.
Unfortunately, they didn't.
"Detailed"?
#100
Posté 02 août 2013 - 06:52
sH0tgUn jUliA
-
- Members
- 16 812 messages
1. "You want Reaper Code? Legion? Are you nuts?" Dead Legion.
2. Catalyst. "It is in your power to destroy us. You can destroy all synthetic life if you want."
Shepard: "But the reapers will be destroyed?"
Catalyst: "Yes."
Shepard: "Say goodbye to the galaxy, Catalyst."
But then, HYR called me a neo-luddite this morning for liking things like nature and books.
2. Catalyst. "It is in your power to destroy us. You can destroy all synthetic life if you want."
Shepard: "But the reapers will be destroyed?"
Catalyst: "Yes."
Shepard: "Say goodbye to the galaxy, Catalyst."
But then, HYR called me a neo-luddite this morning for liking things like nature and books.
Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 02 août 2013 - 06:53 .
