292 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

You can't blame the geth for anything.

Blame is something that is given to people, not objects.

What if our opinion differs? 

What if I think the Geth are people too?

[tanisha__unknown]

Easy: the quarians actually started the war, so I blame them for it. I do not see that it was inevitable or even necessary.

Hatred: I don't think the Geth hate the Quarians. Legion never displayed any hatred, his reasoning as to why the Geth would not make peace with the creators where quite rational,hatred by definition is irrational.

As far as the Quarian hatred is concerned, I get why it is there - the geth wiped out 99.9% of their species. Allright, they brought it on by themselves since they wouldn't have given in, but you can see why the hatred is there, ****** doesn't comeout of nowhere, so I am not blaming them for not being warm about the Geth.

[Soldier096]

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

 

Quarians-  Had the geth as slaves. 

Really? Geth were slaves? The Geth were no more slaves as your computer or phone. The Geth were created to serve the Quarians as tools. Utilizing them as tools is hardly slavery. The Geth were always willing to work for them as long as they were not threatened. Even after Morning War they were willing to serve the Quarians. Where are you getting the idea that the Geth were slaves?

Modifié par Soldier096, 02 août 2013 - 06:12 .

[136th]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

You can't blame the geth for anything.

Blame is something that is given to people, not objects.

Then by that logic, if the Geth are mere objects, then why should we pay them any moral considerations?

The geth are unliable, usless against the Reapers; annihilating them is the more stradegic action.

[Ruadh]

I blame Conrad Verner, with Bakaras crystal, in the mess hall.

Also, for arguments sake, here's a quote to remind everyone the Geth only wanted peace.

'In the aftermath of the war, the Geth became a completely isolationist society. Cutting off all contact with the organic species of the galaxy, they expanded their territory into the unexplored regions behind a vast nebulae cloud known as the Perseus Veil. Every attempt to open diplomatic channels with them failed: emissary vessels sent to open negotiations were attacked and destroyed the moment they entered Geth space.'

[Anubis722]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

*sigh*
*retrieves stock response #248-B*

The Quarian government, acting in compliance with Council law on artificial intelligence, was responsible for the start of the conflict - they don't deny it - however, there are far too many people willing to overlook the atrocities the Geth committed in response.

This audience reaction was to be expected, really. ME3 did its damnedest to paint the Geth as hapless victims; to avoid mentioning previously-established facts in the lore casting the Geth in a negative light (such as exterminating 99% of the Quarian species (ME: Revelation), destroying the ancestral VI archives (ME1 codex), allowing the heretics to continue their attacks for TWO YEARS after the events of ME1 without so much as disowning them (ME2, though Shepard never gets to call them out for it), and killing anyone who entered their space, refusing all organic attempts at peaceful contact for centuries (ME: Revelation, ME1)), manipulating sympathies with the obvious intent of making people reluctant to choose Destroy at the end.

This

Modifié par AnubisEgyptainLordofDeath, 02 août 2013 - 06:34 .

[SinerAthin]

Quarians.
They created the Geth.

You are pretty stupid to create a machine race either way.
Give the Geth a couple of centuries to develop, and no race in the galaxy can match them.

Modifié par SinerAthin, 02 août 2013 - 07:54 .

[wolfhowwl]

The Quarians chose to start a war of extermination, unfortunately for them the Geth were stronger and chose to fight the war on the same terms.

[Element Engine]

I blame the Quarians for not installing restraining bolts on all Geth.

[Samtheman63]

Quarians no question

[Kataphrut94]

The quarians started it both times. That may sound childish, but it's the case, simple enough.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...

I side with the ones who do not run to the Reapers.

Why not? It was a sound decision.

Either they get the Reapers' help and hold on for a bit longer 'til the quarian problem is solved....

... or, the problem is never solved and they are all killed as they would have been anyway.

[Argolas]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I find it difficult to sympathize with the Quarians because their leaders had the stupid idea of using a Reaper invasion as an excellent opportunity to retake their homeworld and force the Geth to align themselves with the cuttlefish.

And to think that people accuse the Salarians of being uncooperative . . . 

Lol?

First off, nobody ever *forced* the Geth to join the Reapers. They chose to and that's pure stupidity since they should have known that they are mere tools, the next to be killed once the Reapers are done with the rest of the galaxy.

There are very strong arguments in favor of the attack. The Quarians needed Rannoch desperately because of the Reaper invasion. Many of their lifeships are old and not particulary fast or maneuverable. The  Reapers attack the Migrant Fleet, the Quarians won't be able to fight neither flee. Only a planet could save them once the reapers attack since they don't bomb planets, instead attempt the slow harvest that does give people the chance to fight, run and hide. Also, once the civilians are safe on Rannoch, they can commit their full fleet to the effort, including their now armed lifeships instead of having to hold them back. I wouldn't support the war, but I can see strong arguments why many Quarians would.

Now your comparison. The Quarians immediatly agreed to fight the Reapers with everyting they have once their civilians are in relative safety, that is as safe as any other race's civilians during the war. The only way to get official Salarian support is to betray another ally. Every other Salarian force that joins you is a result of personal favors. Now who is uncooperative?

[garrus and ashley squad]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

1. Even if it wasn't mercy it's more than the quarians would of done. If they had the chance they would of killed them all. Even after all that the geth still said they were open to the idea of bringing them back. They also helped the quarians get back on their feet if you save both of them. Which is probably a lot more than what the quarians would do.

You've never done a Geth VI playthrough, have you?

Also, who is "they" when you refer to the Quarians? They aren't a monolithic gestalt entity. A big reason they never tried to take back the planet they're physiologically dependent on is multigenerational guilt over what their long-dead ancestors did to the Geth, according to dialogue in ME2.

Really, what needs to change is the Council laws on AI which compelled the Quarians to try to shut them down in the first place.

2. The species the heretics attacked did nothing to the geth but that doesn't mean the geth should save them out of the kindest of their hearts or hardware, whatever. They were not bothing them at the time. why bother with them, especially with that type of history. They may of let the hertics be their embassador but that would be with trusting them over organics. Who wouldn't trust them more after what the quarians have done.

I never cease to be amazed by what Geth apologists are willing to forgive. If you know your brother is going to go on a killing spree and do nothing to stop him, report him, or warn the target, that makes you (at best) an accessory to murder, if not an accomplice.

If you knowingly allow him to continue killing for years after he starts...?

3. Just because they don't attack doesn't mean they are neccisarily friendly or peaceful. It's more you stay on your side of space I'll stay on mine. You would still need some type of interaction to be peaceful. That area was just unknown to them.

Interaction which the Geth were actively rejecting by killing anyone who entered their space and ignoring all hails.

1. I have done that actually many times. The guilt was how some of them felt not all. From what I heard on me2 most just wanted them dead. There were a couple though who did not want war.

2. I'm not a geth apologist and never have been. I judge things fairly, and if I had to make a choice to save one I would always choose the quarians. That does not mean I' am going to blindly side with them or say they are not to blame. I' am far from the geth apologist and still have gripes with them. Also that's really not their brother they are just their people. You hear about murders all the time between humans. You're not going to rush off everytime you hear it, and throw on a police badge. Wrong or not most of us don't go strap on a police uniform and track down who killed that person, especially when it has nothing to do with you, and especially after what the organics have done. Why rush over there. Them not helping them out has nothing to do with accesory to murder when your cut off from most of the other species anyway. Your on your own planet and are doing your own thing. You here doing your own thing and then find out the heretics are killing organics. Why bother helping again after what they have done. That would be like you helping some species who have slaughtered your family and friends. Even if you know what they are doing is wrong are you really going to go out there and help them, after your family and friends have been slaughtered by that species. There is no reaosn to help them. They are not obligated to and are cut off from all of them. No reason to waste your time with them.


3. They have done that and I don't agree with what they did there. I still can understand the hostility and not wanting to deal with them though. I would have been worried to about any type of organics coming close to where we live after what they have done. Not defending them but can understand why they would feel that way. Also they still should of left the geth alone. They are not bothering anyone, just let them be. There was no reason to go out and bother them.

Modifié par garrus and ashley squad, 03 août 2013 - 12:12 .

[garrus and ashley squad]

Soldier096 wrote...

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

 

Quarians-  Had the geth as slaves. 

Really? Geth were slaves? The Geth were no more slaves as your computer or phone. The Geth were created to serve the Quarians as tools. Utilizing them as tools is hardly slavery. The Geth were always willing to work for them as long as they were not threatened. Even after Morning War they were willing to serve the Quarians. Where are you getting the idea that the Geth were slaves?

I'm thinking more of when they found out how intelligent the geth were, and then trying to kill them all. So yeah, that part reminds me a little of slavery. I especially think of that because I feel if they had them controlled, they would have resorted back to that anyway. That's what they did build them for. 

Modifié par garrus and ashley squad, 03 août 2013 - 12:24 .

[Soldier096]

You can't just say the Geth were slaves just because you think so. The Geth were always willing to serve because that is what they were created for. The Quarians ordered the destruction of the Geth because they feared to lose control over their tools. Even then they were well within their right to do so. They created them in the first place. It's not like they enslaved the Geth and took them from their homes. The Quarians made the stupid mistake of not assessing the whole situation before they issued the Geth's destruction which is why the Geth became an independent entity after the resulting conflict.

Modifié par Soldier096, 03 août 2013 - 01:24 .

[TheWerdna]

Oh look, its this thread again.

[David7204]

I don't really see much point in assigning blame to events that occurred hundreds of years ago.

[BeastSaver]

Argolas wrote...

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I find it difficult to sympathize with the Quarians because their leaders had the stupid idea of using a Reaper invasion as an excellent opportunity to retake their homeworld and force the Geth to align themselves with the cuttlefish.

And to think that people accuse the Salarians of being uncooperative . . . 

Lol?

First off, nobody ever *forced* the Geth to join the Reapers. They chose to and that's pure stupidity since they should have known that they are mere tools, the next to be killed once the Reapers are done with the rest of the galaxy.

There are very strong arguments in favor of the attack. The Quarians needed Rannoch desperately because of the Reaper invasion. Many of their lifeships are old and not particulary fast or maneuverable. The  Reapers attack the Migrant Fleet, the Quarians won't be able to fight neither flee. Only a planet could save them once the reapers attack since they don't bomb planets, instead attempt the slow harvest that does give people the chance to fight, run and hide. Also, once the civilians are safe on Rannoch, they can commit their full fleet to the effort, including their now armed lifeships instead of having to hold them back. I wouldn't support the war, but I can see strong arguments why many Quarians would.

Now your comparison. The Quarians immediatly agreed to fight the Reapers with everyting they have once their civilians are in relative safety, that is as safe as any other race's civilians during the war. The only way to get official Salarian support is to betray another ally. Every other Salarian force that joins you is a result of personal favors. Now who is uncooperative?

How's being on a planet working out for humans?

[David7204]

The quarians aren't stupid for attacking. And I'm fairly sure the geth were indeed somewhat 'forced' to work with Sovereign in ME 1.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

The quarians aren't stupid for attacking. And I'm fairly sure the geth were indeed somewhat 'forced' to work with Sovereign in ME 1.

The heretics willingly joined them

[garrus and ashley squad]

Soldier096 wrote...

You can't just say the Geth were slaves just because you think so. The Geth were always willing to serve because that is what they were created for. The Quarians ordered the destruction of the Geth because they feared to lose control over their tools. Even then they were well within their right to do so. They created them in the first place. It's not like they enslaved the Geth and took them from their homes. The Quarians made the stupid mistake of not assessing the whole situation before they issued the Geth's destruction which is why the Geth became an independent entity after the resulting conflict.

I agree that they were within their rights. I still feel it is wrong to attack them out of fear. They were never hostile until they attacked. The reason I think of them as slaves is beacuse they were treated a lot differently when you save both the geth and quarians. They were treated with more equality but I guess that could come from knowing more with what they are dealing with.