292 réponses à ce sujet

[garrus and ashley squad]

Soldier096 wrote...

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

1. Maybe not but it is still better than what the quarians would have gave them. If it is reversed I think they wipe them out and there is no questioning or thought about it, and even if there is their military would still be the ones to wipe them all out.

Geth VI gladly wipes out the Quarians if given the chance to do so. If the Geth had sufficient data they would have wiped out the Quarians without a second thought. 

2. Yes they did, but like I said if the geth were viewed in more of a postive light in the previous games you would of had the chance for an even playing field in me3. They decided to have quarians good and geth bad in me and most of me2. They finally gave the geth something in me3, which to me should have been done in the other games, but maybe they had their reasons.

The difference is that when discussing the topic in Me1 and Me2 Shepard and the player can openly agree or disagree with the Quarian's actions. Me3 Shepard and the player are forced to accept this Geth propoganda thorugh auto dialogue. 

3. It probably would have, but I still can't blame the whole geth for the actions of the heretics. 

Yes you can blame them. They all act as a whole. There is no individual that decides what the Geth do. They all make a consensus and then all of them act on it. 

1. The geth had a lot of oppurtunities to pursue and destroy the quarians and decided not to. I don't know if they wipe the quarians out with enough data because if you save both of them they do work alongside each other. 

2.There not really forced as you can still kill the geth. You don't really ever get to kill quarians in any game except me3.

3. The heretics and geth both thought differently. Which is why the ones that wanted to attack did and the ones that didn't want to didnt.

[Steelcan]

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

[DeinonSlayer]

Soldier096 wrote...

2. Yes they did, but like I said if the geth were viewed in more of a postive light in the previous games you would of had the chance for an even playing field in me3. They decided to have quarians good and geth bad in me and most of me2. They finally gave the geth something in me3, which to me should have been done in the other games, but maybe they had their reasons.

The difference is that when discussing the topic in Me1 and Me2 Shepard and the player can openly agree or disagree with the Quarian's actions. Me3 Shepard and the player are forced to accept this Geth propoganda thorugh auto dialogue. 

If I recall, your choices in ME1 were to argue that A) the Geth were defending themselves, everything happening with Saren was the Quarians' fault, C) they were shortsighted, or D) they deserved what they got. Sort of like how Shepard had to argue that the First Contact War and the Genophage were just about the same thing. This was at a stage in the narrative where the player presumably knew nothing about these races, so the only way to learn was to get schooled for making insulting or ignorant statements.

ME2 was the most balanced portrayal, IMO, out of all three titles - that goes for the Genophage issue, too. Mordin's loyalty mission is one of the best in the trilogy.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 04 août 2013 - 04:03 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

Source?

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

Source?

Legion in ME2

[MassivelyEffective0730]

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

Source?

Legion in ME2

I reiterate:

Source?

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Well your fellow geth supporters are in the same strain as Auld Wulf, ie geth killed not a single quarian civilian.

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

Source?

Legion in ME2

I reiterate:

Source?

Third conversation when asked about the state of Rannoch currently.

[garrus and ashley squad]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Soldier096 wrote...

2. Yes they did, but like I said if the geth were viewed in more of a postive light in the previous games you would of had the chance for an even playing field in me3. They decided to have quarians good and geth bad in me and most of me2. They finally gave the geth something in me3, which to me should have been done in the other games, but maybe they had their reasons.

The difference is that when discussing the topic in Me1 and Me2 Shepard and the player can openly agree or disagree with the Quarian's actions. Me3 Shepard and the player are forced to accept this Geth propoganda thorugh auto dialogue. 

If I recall, your choices in ME1 were to argue that A) the Geth were defending themselves, everything happening with Saren was the Quarians' fault, C) they were shortsighted, or D) they deserved what they got. Sort of like how Shepard had to argue that the First Contact War and the Genophage were just about the same thing. This was at a stage in the narrative where the player presumably knew nothing about these races, so they only way to learn was to get schooled for making insulting or ignorant statements.

ME2 was the most balanced portrayal, IMO, out of all three titles - that goes for the Genophage issue, too. Mordin's loyalty mission is one of the best in the trilogy.

I felt if you brought legion aboard the ship you got a more balaned portrayal. Even though I still give the quarians the edge as their are more quarians opinions then geth, and most wanted them destroyed. That, and after going to war with them in the last game, you kind of block out a lot of the geth opinions. As yeah whatever, weren't you shooting at me in the last game and in this game.

[garrus and ashley squad]

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Well your fellow geth supporters are in the same strain as Auld Wulf, ie geth killed not a single quarian civilian.

Just for the record I have never said that, and I can actually see the argument from both sides.

[Steelcan]

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Well your fellow geth supporters are in the same strain as Auld Wulf, ie geth killed not a single quarian civilian.

Just for the record I have never said that, and I can actually see the argument from both sides.

Hellbird said it a page ago

[DeinonSlayer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

Source?

ME2. Ask Legion in what capacity the Geth are acting as caretakers. He says they're clearing "rubble and toxins" from the war. The ME3 codex entry for Rannoch notes that they're repairing ecological damage to the planet. If you take Tali and Legion to Tuchanka, you get the following exchange:

"The Krogan bombed their own world into this condition. The Creators were not so aggressive in the Morning War."
"We expected to get our worlds back. We didn't want to destroy them!"
"We are glad you did not. You would be unable to survive in the conditions Krogan thrive in."

It's inferred, but not directly stated.

[garrus and ashley squad]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Think that is the 1st time I have seen someone ask to get involved in an online thread. Most just jump in lol.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Well your fellow geth supporters are in the same strain as Auld Wulf, ie geth killed not a single quarian civilian.

Oh, the Geth killed Quarian civilians. It definitely was not a good thing, and rather excessive.

That said;

I can hardly blame the Geth given the circumstances of the situation. The Geth in their mental infancy had a kill or be killed reaction. 

The only way to prevent themselves from being killed was to kill all in return. It's a very primitive, animal-like state of mind, and it goes a long way to see how much the Geth have developed later, though they are still in a very rogue, realist state of mind when it comes to external affairs.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When did Legion imply the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember Legion mentioning such a thing, and the wiki entry doesn't have any details.

He syas that the geth are cleaning up toxins left behind from the Morning War, seeing as how chemical weapons would not affect synthetics it makes perfect sense for them to use them.

Source?

ME2. Ask Legion in what capacity the Geth are acting as caretakers. He says they're clearing "rubble and toxins" from the war. The ME3 codex entry for Rannoch notes that they're repairing ecological damage to the planet. If you take Tali and Legion to Tuchanka, you get the following exchange:

"The Krogan bombed their own world into this condition. The Creators were not so aggressive in the Morning War."
"We expected to get our worlds back. We didn't want to destroy them!"
"We are glad you did not. You would be unable to survive in the conditions Krogan thrive in."

It's inferred, but not directly stated.

That seems more to me like the aspects of conventional war. I think what Legion is saying is that the Quarians just don't have the robust physiology of the Krogan to survive in the same kind of devastated and toxic environment as them. I take that as having come from the fighting itself. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Think that is the 1st time I have seen someone ask to get involved in an online thread. Most just jump in lol.

To be arrogant and boastful in my shameless self-promotion:

I'm actually one of the few people here who can put up a solid argument for the Geth. A lot of the more reasonable Quarian fans that are here know this. I can drive the point to where we can agree to disagree without making the Geth supporters seem like idiots (even though many are).

[AresKeith]

Well I like both the Quarians and the Geth

And both are pretty much to blame

[DeinonSlayer]

You're free to take it however you like, Massive. I see 99% of an organic species numbering in the billions wiped out in a single year, and a three-hundred-year ongoing effort to clear toxins from the war, and the pieces fit together quite snugly.

Unless we're meant to swallow everything we're shovel-fed in the consensus without an ounce of skepticism. How does a group go from having to hide out in civilian houses to survive, to, quote, "overrunning" multiple planets and killing damned near everyone in the space of a single year?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 04 août 2013 - 04:21 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Ever considered, that those chemicals don't necessarily have to be remains of chemical weaponry?

[garrus and ashley squad]

To be honest we still have no solid proof that the geth used chemical weapons. At this point it is just speculation. It's implied but never stated. Until then we are just guessing at this point as their could be just a huge fallout from the war to create the toxins. That said, even if they did, it's not necessarily the most evil thing or unheard of. This is war people, do consider it all the time.

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...


That seems more to me like the aspects of conventional war. I think what Legion is saying is that the Quarians just don't have the robust physiology of the Krogan to survive in the same kind of devastated and toxic environment as them. I take that as having come from the fighting itself. 

"Toxins" implies fallout from nonconventional warfare, at least to me.  And the geth using chemical weapons makes perfect sense as they would not be affected by them.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AresKeith wrote...

Well I like both the Quarians and the Geth

And both are pretty much to blame

You know, I thought that too for a while, but honestly, the more I think about it, the less blame I put on the origin of the conflict on the Geth. The more I think about the extenuating circumstances post-war, the more I find it difficult to objectively judge any of the Geth's actions when remembering the circumstances of their situation in combination with the nature of the Geth themselves.

[Steelcan]

Necanor wrote...

Ever considered, that those chemicals don't necessarily have to be remains of chemical weaponry?

Could also be radioactive fallout from nuclear weapons, but chemical weapons would not affect the geth if deployed.  SO it seems reasonable that they would use them.

[HellbirdIV]

Steelcan wrote...

garrus and ashley squad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?

Well your fellow geth supporters are in the same strain as Auld Wulf, ie geth killed not a single quarian civilian.

Just for the record I have never said that, and I can actually see the argument from both sides.

Hellbird said it a page ago

What I actually said is that there is no evidence the geth killed any quarian civilians.

Do I believe the geth were completley innocent? No. But I'm not going to pretend like the facts aren't more important than my personal preferences.

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Unless
we're meant to swallow everything we're shovel-fed in the consensus
without an ounce of skepticism.

For the purposes of this discussion we have no other alternative. If the Consensus mission can contain false information, then so can everything Tali told us in ME1 and ME2, invalidating all the information we have.

Arguing that the side you disagree with must be lying is just spindoctoring, and doesn't condone any kind of rational discussion.

DeinonSlayer wrote...

How does a group go from having to hide
out in civilian houses to survive, to, quote, "overrunning" multiple
planets and killing damned near everyone in the space of a single
year?

I drew the conclusion a few threads back that the quarians are just really, really, really incompetent.

Necanor wrote...

Ever considered, that those chemicals don't necessarily have to be remains of chemical weaponry?

Been noted several times already, yes.

It could be anything from starship debris (all ships possess chemical rocket fuel and Eezo cores, at minimum) to damaged / destroyed chemical factories, stockpiles, energy reserves, leaking groundcars, spent conventional munitions, toxic bacteria from decaying bodies... It just goes on.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 04 août 2013 - 04:30 .