Virtually everything we use today would qualify as "toxin" if dumped in the environment - from paint, metal parts of computers all the way up to depleted uranium tank armour... without CBRN weapons used at all.He says they're clearing "rubble and toxins" from the war
Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 04 août 2013 - 04:24 .
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
So guys: Do you think I should get involved in this debate?
Think that is the 1st time I have seen someone ask to get involved in an online thread. Most just jump in lol.
To be arrogant and boastful in my shameless self-promotion:
I'm actually one of the few people here who can put up a solid argument for the Geth. A lot of the more reasonable Quarian fans that are here know this. I can drive the point to where we can agree to disagree without making the Geth supporters seem like idiots (even though many are).
Steelcan wrote...
Could also be radioactive fallout from nuclear weapons, but chemical weapons would not affect the geth if deployed. SO it seems reasonable that they would use them.Necanor wrote...
Ever considered, that those chemicals don't necessarily have to be remains of chemical weaponry?
I doubt a purely conventional war would last les sthan a year and result in so many billions dead.AlexMBrennan wrote...
Virtually everything we use today would qualify as "toxin" if dumped in the environment - from paint, metal parts of computers all the way up to depleted uranium tank armour... without CBRN weapons used at all.He says they're clearing "rubble and toxins" from the war
We know the quarians didn't deploy WMD's from both Legion and Tali. But the geth have every reason to use them.Necanor wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Could also be radioactive fallout from nuclear weapons, but chemical weapons would not affect the geth if deployed. SO it seems reasonable that they would use them.Necanor wrote...
Ever considered, that those chemicals don't necessarily have to be remains of chemical weaponry?
I doubt the Quarians would go that far though, they'd effectivelt commit suicide by destroying their homeworld. Destroyed nuclear and chemical facilities would also have a devestating effect on the environment.
You couldn't wipe out 99% of Earth's population in a year by dropping an asteroid on the planet. Can you think of a more efficient way to exterminate an organic population than widespread deployment of chemical or biological weaponry?AlexMBrennan wrote...
Virtually everything we use today would qualify as "toxin" if dumped in the environment - from paint, metal parts of computers all the way up to depleted uranium tank armour... without CBRN weapons used at all.He says they're clearing "rubble and toxins" from the war
Anybody with cursory familiarity would realize the geth had to have killed civiians, and lots of them.HellbirdIV wrote...
What I actually said is that there is no evidence the geth killed any quarian civilians.
Do I believe the geth were completley innocent? No. But I'm not going to pretend like the facts aren't more important than my personal preferences.
Steelcan wrote...
"Toxins" implies fallout from nonconventional warfare, at least to me. And the geth using chemical weapons makes perfect sense as they would not be affected by them.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
That seems more to me like the aspects of conventional war. I think what Legion is saying is that the Quarians just don't have the robust physiology of the Krogan to survive in the same kind of devastated and toxic environment as them. I take that as having come from the fighting itself.
Did you get a chance to read the excerpt from Revelation I posted a few pages back?HellbirdIV wrote...
What I actually said is that there is no evidence the geth killed any quarian civilians.
Do I believe the geth were completley innocent? No. But I'm not going to pretend like the facts aren't more important than my personal preferences.
That is quite possible, the question is wether or not the Geth were sophisticated enough to use these weapons and how they managed to obtain them.Steelcan wrote...
We know the quarians didn't deploy WMD's from both Legion and Tali. But the geth have every reason to use them.Necanor wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Could also be radioactive fallout from nuclear weapons, but chemical weapons would not affect the geth if deployed. SO it seems reasonable that they would use them.Necanor wrote...
Ever considered, that those chemicals don't necessarily have to be remains of chemical weaponry?
I doubt the Quarians would go that far though, they'd effectivelt commit suicide by destroying their homeworld. Destroyed nuclear and chemical facilities would also have a devestating effect on the environment.
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 04 août 2013 - 04:31 .
How could a purely conventional war result in such horrific casualty figures in such a short time frame? It seems more likely to me that the geth deployed weapons that would not affect themselves but would be devastating to their enemy.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I think the context was more that the fighting was less heated than that of the Krogan homeworld and that the Geth believe it is fortuitous that the Quarians didn't resort to ecological damage and destruction of their environments to stop the Geth, seeing as the only people they'd really be hurting was themselves.
That's conjecture on you end, with bias against the Geth. I think what makes more sense is that ecological litter on the planet was caused by the fighting itself, from one or both parties. Weapons are devastating, and all sorts of toxic chemicals and materials goes into constructing them. It's very polluting. War is very, very polluting.
I think the 'toxins' that Legion is referring to is the ecological damage and pollution caused by the fighting. Much more likely, and much more conventional.
Do I need to quote Legion again? The quarians did not deploy WMD's.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
The answer: I don't believe for a second that chemical weapons were used. I believe the closest you might get is a few high-yield fission/fusion devices used by the Quarians as a resort agains the Geth, that would most likely have been abandoned after having a non-impact on the Consensus.
MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
"Toxins" implies fallout from nonconventional warfare, at least to me. And the geth using chemical weapons makes perfect sense as they would not be affected by them.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
That seems more to me like the aspects of conventional war. I think what Legion is saying is that the Quarians just don't have the robust physiology of the Krogan to survive in the same kind of devastated and toxic environment as them. I take that as having come from the fighting itself.
I think the context was more that the fighting was less heated than that of the Krogan homeworld and that the Geth believe it is fortuitous that the Quarians didn't resort to ecological damage and destruction of their environments to stop the Geth, seeing as the only people they'd really be hurting was themselves.
That's conjecture on you end, with bias against the Geth. I think what makes more sense is that ecological litter on the planet was caused by the fighting itself, from one or both parties. Weapons are devastating, and all sorts of toxic chemicals and materials goes into constructing them. It's very polluting. War is very, very polluting.
I think the 'toxins' that Legion is referring to is the ecological damage and pollution caused by the fighting. Much more likely, and much more conventional.
If they were sophisticated enough to wage a war of extermination I think they can manage to shoot some rockets with chemical payloads.Necanor wrote...
That is quite possible, the question is wether or not the Geth were sophisticated enough to use these weapons and how they managed to obtain them.
Steelcan wrote...
Do I need to quote Legion again? The quarians did not deploy WMD's.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
The answer: I don't believe for a second that chemical weapons were used. I believe the closest you might get is a few high-yield fission/fusion devices used by the Quarians as a resort agains the Geth, that would most likely have been abandoned after having a non-impact on the Consensus.
Why would they? They spent the last two games carefully avoiding any mention of the Quarian death toll in the Morning War after establishing it in the books and ME1 dialogue. ME3 committed no dialogue to that, or to the centuries of Geth isolationism and how it contributed to the current situation. They wanted to make a narrative sympathetic to the Geth, and the only way they could do that was by effectively sweeping the other side under the rug. I knew something was up my first time through ME3 when Xen threw out those softball arguments for going to war when stronger ones were made in the second game.garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
He implies their use in his conversation, furthermore such a rapid conclusion to the war as well as the massive quarian casualties suggest the use of WMD's.garrus and ashley squad wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Do I need to quote Legion again? The quarians did not deploy WMD's.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
The answer: I don't believe for a second that chemical weapons were used. I believe the closest you might get is a few high-yield fission/fusion devices used by the Quarians as a resort agains the Geth, that would most likely have been abandoned after having a non-impact on the Consensus.
He never stated the geth did either.
Steelcan wrote...
Anybody with cursory familiarity would realize the geth had to have killed civiians, and lots of them.
DeinonSlayer wrote...
Did you get a chance to read the excerpt from Revelation I posted a few pages back?
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
1. The geth had a lot of oppurtunities to pursue and destroy the quarians and decided not to. I don't know if they wipe the quarians out with enough data because if you save both of them they do work alongside each other.
2.There not really forced as you can still kill the geth. You don't really ever get to kill quarians in any game except me3.
3. The heretics and geth both thought differently. Which is why the ones that wanted to attack did and the ones that didn't want to didnt.
Modifié par Soldier096, 04 août 2013 - 04:37 .
Steelcan wrote...
How could a purely conventional war result in such horrific casualty figures in such a short time frame? It seems more likely to me that the geth deployed weapons that would not affect themselves but would be devastating to their enemy.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I think the context was more that the fighting was less heated than that of the Krogan homeworld and that the Geth believe it is fortuitous that the Quarians didn't resort to ecological damage and destruction of their environments to stop the Geth, seeing as the only people they'd really be hurting was themselves.
That's conjecture on you end, with bias against the Geth. I think what makes more sense is that ecological litter on the planet was caused by the fighting itself, from one or both parties. Weapons are devastating, and all sorts of toxic chemicals and materials goes into constructing them. It's very polluting. War is very, very polluting.
I think the 'toxins' that Legion is referring to is the ecological damage and pollution caused by the fighting. Much more likely, and much more conventional.
He has a valid point though, despite Quarian population presumably being extremely low in the first place(only few hospitable places, culture, few populated areas), the Geth still had to kill a few million somehow in such a short time period.garrus and ashley squad wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Do I need to quote Legion again? The quarians did not deploy WMD's.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
The answer: I don't believe for a second that chemical weapons were used. I believe the closest you might get is a few high-yield fission/fusion devices used by the Quarians as a resort agains the Geth, that would most likely have been abandoned after having a non-impact on the Consensus.
He never stated the geth did either.
DeinonSlayer wrote...
Why would they? They spent the last two games carefully avoiding any mention of the Quarian death toll in the Morning War after establishing it in the books and ME1 dialogue. ME3 committed no dialogue to that, or to the centuries of Geth isolationism and how it contributed to the current situation. They wanted to make a narrative sympathetic to the Geth, and the only way they could do that was by effectively sweeping the other side under the rug. I knew something was up my first time through ME3 when Xen threw out those softball arguments for going to war when stronger ones were made in the second game.garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
Steelcan wrote...
He implies their use in his conversation, furthermore such a rapid conclusion to the war as well as the massive quarian casualties suggest the use of WMD's.garrus and ashley squad wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Do I need to quote Legion again? The quarians did not deploy WMD's.MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
garrus and ashley squad wrote...
If they did use chemical warfare I don't see why bioware would not just clearly state that. That would have a huge impact on a race, and is to a lesser extent like the genophage.
The answer: I don't believe for a second that chemical weapons were used. I believe the closest you might get is a few high-yield fission/fusion devices used by the Quarians as a resort agains the Geth, that would most likely have been abandoned after having a non-impact on the Consensus.
He never stated the geth did either.
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