923 réponses à ce sujet

[dublin omega 223]

Necanor wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Aren't Liara and Garrus the most popular squadmates?

I'd too give more content to the most popular squadmates, is the most logical thing to do.

Yes.

Bioware released statistics in March:

Liara and Garrus came in at 24%

Tali was a lowly 7.8%

The official stats are a joke, they shouldn't be used for reference. They include 1 playthrough from player A and 10 playthroughs from player B. Check every poll, every survey from 3rd party sites and you'll find completely different results.

True plus those offical stats don't take players who don't play online into account.

[HellbirdIV]

You just gotta love how people jump out to decry statistics as inaccurate whenever they don't support their preconceptions...

[Sir DeLoria]

HellbirdIV wrote...

You just gotta love how people jump out to decry statistics as inaccurate whenever they don't support their preconceptions...

You just gotta love how people claim inaccurate statistics whenever they support their preconceptions. It goes both ways.

Check any list, any rating, any poll on any site, like IGN, UGO or GR. The stats absolutely don't match the fans' opinions.

[HellbirdIV]

You could always provide said stats to support your argument, like Barquiel did.

Me personally, I don't really care what LI/Squadmates are the most popular. I prefer Liara, and that's what matters to me

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 07 août 2013 - 02:16 .

[SiniisteR]

These are the first 3 polls I found sorted from most voted to least voted that basically ask which LI is people's' favorites.

Poll #1

Poll #2

Poll #3

There seems to be a pattern here.

[HellbirdIV]

SiniisteR wrote...

There seems to be a pattern here.

Given the rabid nature of Talimancers on the BSN it is unsurprising that BSN polls heavily favor her, but if we can dismiss one website as unreliably biased, wouldn't BSN be the one?

Necanor wrote...

You just gotta love how people claim inaccurate statistics whenever they support their preconceptions.

Nawamsayin?

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 07 août 2013 - 02:37 .

[rekn2]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

They go into settled star systems and strip mine planets that don't belong to them.

Sounds like what Shepard does.

One starship.

Versus 50,000 starships and an entire race.

I'll concede that point though.

dont, every little piece mined goes to stopping galaxy wide extinction as apposed to making stupid **** for entertainment.

also, the normandy is small...how much ore or w/e do you really think it can hold...especially when compaired to some of the collasal ships the quarians have?

[Barquiel]

Sorry, but that's absurd ("These statistics are inaccurate because I don't like the numbers"). Yes...I guess all Liara- and Garrus fans play online while at the same time people who prefer Tali play offline, that totally makes sense.

All these BSN/IGN/UGO polls are heavily biased in favor of fans/hardcore/non-casual players, that's the simple truth about it. People who read these forums represent a (very small) minority of the fans who bought and played Mass Effect 3. A vocal minority, certainly, but still a minority. There are millions of players who aren't even registered on BSN. Your average BSN poll has a few hundred participants.

Yes, not everyone plays online. But it is still a much larger sample size than any internet poll, and thus more accurate of the player base as a whole.

Not to mention that the ME3 surveys with the most participants (several thousand) have similar results...

Modifié par Barquiel, 07 août 2013 - 02:42 .

[HellbirdIV]

Barquiel wrote...

People who read these forums represent a (very small) minority of the fans who bought and played Mass Effect 3. A vocal minority, certainly, but still a minority.

I don't even think I properly registered to the BSN until Mass Effect 3 came along and made me feel like venting about the endings alongside everyone else.

Man, those were the days - when everyone on the BSN was united in a single voice, calling Mac Walters a moron. Now it's all love interests this, quarians that, and tryhards in the Multiplayer section.

[Sir DeLoria]

HellbirdIV wrote...

SiniisteR wrote...

There seems to be a pattern here.

Given the rabid nature of Talimancers on the BSN it is unsurprising that BSN polls heavily favor her, but if we can dismiss one website as unreliably biased, wouldn't BSN be the one?

Critical reception of Tali:

Evan Saarthoff critic for UGM: 4th best video game companion of all time
Steven Hopper critic for IGN: 2nd best ME character(supported and based on poll)
Sal Basile critic for UGO: 4th best squadmate in ME

Kirk Hamilton, Luke Plunkett, Matt Liebl, Tyler Nagata, Tom Francis  and Carolyn Gudmondson of Kotaku, GameZone, PCGamer and GR listed her as their favourite ME romance and/or favourite character.

[Sir DeLoria]

Barquiel wrote...

Sorry, but that's absurd ("These statistics are inaccurate because I don't like the numbers"). Yes...I guess all Liara- and Garrus fans play online while at the same time people who prefer Tali play offline, that totally makes sense.

All these BSN/IGN/UGO polls are heavily biased in favor of fans/hardcore/non-casual players, that's the simple truth about it. People who read these forums represent a (very small) minority of the fans who bought and played Mass Effect 3. A vocal minority, certainly, but still a minority. There are millions of players who aren't even registered on BSN. Your average BSN poll has a few hundred participants.

Yes, not everyone plays online. But it is still a much larger sample size than any internet poll, and thus more accurate of the player base as a whole.

Not to mention that the ME3 surveys with the most participants (several thousand) have similar results...

Yeah and instead we should use a poll were 20 playthroughs of one hardcore player count as much as the single playthroughs of twenty casual players? Not buying it.

[HellbirdIV]

Necanor wrote...

Steven Hopper critic for IGN: 2nd best ME character(supported and based on poll)
Sal Basile critic for UGO: 4th best squadmate in ME

First: Who were the 1st choices? (and in the latter case, 2nd and 3rd?)

Second: Do these names mean anything? Because I've never heard of them before.

Look, dude - I get it. You're obsessed with Tali. You don't have to cling to every scrap of praise people throw out for her to validate yourself. No-one really cares who does or does not like Tali. You shouldn't either.

[jtav]

Guys, BSN isn't representative of the general playerbase. It's just not. I'd wager most people do romance Liara, Ash, or Miranda because they're the sexy poster girls. So what? If you like Tali best, nothing can take that away from you, ever.

[CronoDragoon]

Barquiel wrote...
Yes, not everyone plays online. But it is still a much larger sample size than any internet poll, and thus more accurate of the player base as a whole.

I don't think anyone would object to the statement that Tali has a higher status among hardcore fans of Mass Effect than casual fans. That's a pretty unbiased hypothesis.

However, I don't think you can simply dismiss people pointing out possible flaws in the "Tali use" statistics, either, as "didn't like the stats." Are they calculated based on amount of missions it's possible to bring her or amount of missions total? for example. Liara and Garrus are both very popular squadmates, but the fact that they are over 3 times as popular to bring on missions is a little suspicious, you have to admit, given just how popular Tali is with the hardcore fan base. You would need additional reasons for this discrepancy - reasons why casuals would have SUCH a miniscule use stat of her compared to the hardcores.

One possible reason is simply that casuals(defined as starting with ME3 in this example) have to choose between geth and quarians instead of having peace. In 1/3 of all playthroughs Tali doesn't make it past Rannoch, for example. Would casuals have used her if saving her wasn't in the "Renegade" slot for the Rannoch choice? Who knows?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 07 août 2013 - 03:09 .

[Sir DeLoria]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Steven Hopper critic for IGN: 2nd best ME character(supported and based on poll)
Sal Basile critic for UGO: 4th best squadmate in ME

First: Who were the 1st choices? (and in the latter case, 2nd and 3rd?)

Second: Do these names mean anything? Because I've never heard of them before.

Look, dude - I get it. You're obsessed with Tali. You don't have to cling to every scrap of praise people throw out for her to validate yourself. No-one really cares who does or does not like Tali. You shouldn't either.

First was Garrus in the IGN poll, the other three in the UGO poll were Liara(because Liara simply is a practical squadmate) Garrus and Javik. I'm not obsessed with Tali and I'm not trying to scrap together praise in order to validate myself, I'm just quoting some critcs' opinions in order to contrast them to BW's terrible statistics.

[jtav]

Well, her stats do suck in 2 and 3 and she's one of my go to deaths because I can stop the squad select screen from looking awful once Rannoch begins, avoid a scene I dislike, and have the ending make more sense without losing much of value to me.

[HellbirdIV]

jtav wrote...

Guys, BSN isn't representative of the
general playerbase. It's just not. I'd wager most people do romance
Liara, Ash, or Miranda because they're the sexy poster girls. So what?
If you like Tali best, nothing can take that away from you,
ever.

Pretty much my whole point. What does it matter to
you if I think Miranda looks like a potato and has all the personality
of one? You like her, and that should be what matters.

CronoDragoon wrote...
I don't think anyone would object to the statement that Tali has a higher status among hardcore fans of Mass Effect than casual fans. That's a pretty unbiased hypothesis.

I'd call that an extremely biased "hypothesis". What exactly is a "Hardcore fan"? Who are you to make that distinction? Why would Tali be more popular with supposed "Hardcore" fans?

That statement reeks of self-congratulatory arrogance. "I like Tali/Miranda so I'm just smarter than the sheep who only pick the cute blue girl while smart people like me care about butts I mean personality".

It's that same bull**** that people keep throwing out about how Paragon is only favored because people "blindly pick it". Ever occur to you that people who would just mash through the story without thought would more likely play a game that isn't Mass Effect 3? Christ almighty, people 'round here...

[TheWerdna]

Look, to solve this argument I think its clear that Liara and Garrus are more popular than Tali, thatt is supported by the official statistics and that survey that got 17k participants. However, said survey had Tali at the 3ed most popular squadmate while the official statistics had her at the 5th most popular.

I personally think that said difference has a lot to do with how the official statistics seem to be based on how often they are used in missions, which puts Tali (along with Kaidan and Ashkey) at a disadvantage due to not being recruited until the second half of the game; while Liara, Garrus, James, and EDI are all recruited sooner and thus come out as "more popular". Coupled with the fact that those four characters always survive all of ME3 until the end, while Tali dies in 37% of games (side with the geth). I do believe that as such the statistics, while still useful, are not exactly the most representative.

I believe that survey that got 17k participants shows a more accurate view of popularity as what people say is their favorite, not who they used the most (which is slewed by when said characters are recruitable)

Basically I am partially agreeing with both sides: HellbirdIV , you are probably 100% correct that Liara and Garrus are more popular that Tali; with probably twice as many people romancing Liara as those who romance Tali. Nanacor, you are correct in pointing out that those statistics are not exactly representative due to being based on use in missions and are thus skewed by multiple outside factors; and that Tali is probably a bit more popular than they would let on.

In the end I think its still safe to say Tali is likely one of the more popular characters, perhaps even the second most popular love interest for maleshepard behind Liara.

[dublin omega 223]

TheWerdna wrote...

Look, to solve this argument I think its clear that Liara and Garrus are more popular than Tali, thatt is supported by the official statistics and that survey that got 17k participants. However, said survey had Tali at the 3ed most popular squadmate while the official statistics had her at the 5th most popular.

I personally think that said difference has a lot to do with how the official statistics seem to be based on how often they are used in missions, which puts Tali (along with Kaidan and Ashkey) at a disadvantage due to not being recruited until the second half of the game; while Liara, Garrus, James, and EDI are all recruited sooner and thus come out as "more popular". Coupled with the fact that those four characters always survive all of ME3 until the end, while Tali dies in 37% of games (side with the geth). I do believe that as such the statistics, while still useful, are not exactly the most representative.

I believe that survey that got 17k participants shows a more accurate view of popularity as what people say is their favorite, not who they used the most (which is slewed by when said characters are recruitable)

Basically I am partially agreeing with both sides: HellbirdIV , you are probably 100% correct that Liara and Garrus are more popular that Tali; with probably twice as many people romancing Liara as those who romance Tali. Nanacor, you are correct in pointing out that those statistics are not exactly representative due to being based on use in missions and are thus skewed by multiple outside factors; and that Tali is probably a bit more popular than they would let on.

In the end I think its still safe to say Tali is likely one of the more popular characters, perhaps even the second most popular love interest for maleshepard behind Liara.

Like I said the results are inaccurate as there are people who like other characters who didn't take part in the survey or don't play online and arent inculded in the stats and the stats only showed ME3.

I'd like to see a similar stats list for the entire ME trilogy to get more accurate figures on which squadmates are the most popular overall.

[HellbirdIV]

The statistics based on ME3 gameplay would certainly skew things, but then so would something based on ME1/2 where Liara/Ash/Kaidan are all potentially unavailable at any given time (And Garrus can be skipped entirely.)

If we went purely by "Used" numbers I imagine Garrus would top the list though. Always useful, always cool, available early in each game.

[jtav]

I romance Thane, and even I'd concede that Tali has a stronger presence among the hardcore fans (those who buy merchandise, post on forums, create fan media, etc) than any characters except Liara and Garrus. Kaidan is also much more popular with this crowd than he is the audience at large.

[Sir DeLoria]

I agree with everything Werdna just said, my point simply is, that the 'official statistics' are bogus when it comes to the players' actual opinions. The Geth v Quarian stats for example, because most players(including me) played through this sequence multiple times in order to see the different outcomes. The number of people who killed Wrex is askew because the majority didn't play ME3 with an imported save. Same goes for Miranda dying in the majority of playthroughs.

[TheWerdna]

HellbirdIV wrote...

The statistics based on ME3 gameplay would certainly skew things, but then so would something based on ME1/2 where Liara/Ash/Kaidan are all potentially unavailable at any given time (And Garrus can be skipped entirely.)

If we went purely by "Used" numbers I imagine Garrus would top the list though. Always useful, always cool, available early in each game.

Which was the case for the ME2 statistics, and is roughtly tied with Liara for most used in the ME3 ones as well likely do to a combination of being very popular and being recruitable early on.

Look, I am not trying to justify my Talimancerness by claiming Tali is actually more popular or anything,, all I am saying is that the official statisitcs are likely a bit skewed and that because Tali is recruited so late is probably used at least half as often as she would were she recruitable in the first half of the game. Laira and Garrus are still probably far more popular, which I freely awknowlege without and argument.

Note: Also, I kinda tend to ignore people who only played ME3 from this sort of discussion based on popularity, as which characters they even have around to interact with or can even have a romance with are far more limmited....aslo they are not real fans of the series. which is why that survey with 17lk participants is probably a very accurate representation of fan of the series or those who atleast played all 3 games (but not of the playerbase as a whole_

Modifié par TheWerdna, 07 août 2013 - 03:26 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

rekn2 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

They go into settled star systems and strip mine planets that don't belong to them.

Sounds like what Shepard does.

One starship.

Versus 50,000 starships and an entire race.

I'll concede that point though.

dont, every little piece mined goes to stopping galaxy wide extinction as apposed to making stupid **** for entertainment.

also, the normandy is small...how much ore or w/e do you really think it can hold...especially when compaired to some of the collasal ships the quarians have?

In principle though, it is the same thing. I'm not agreeing with his point completely, but I'm seeing how he does have a point with Shepard doing the same thing, no matter the context or for what purpose. I definitely agree with you more on this, but it is a simple fact:

Shepard does go to planets that don't belong to him and mines resources from them (or at least marks them so that some professional mining group can exploit those resources later).

[MassivelyEffective0730]

jtav wrote...

I romance Thane, and even I'd concede that Tali has a stronger presence among the hardcore fans (those who buy merchandise, post on forums, create fan media, etc) than any characters except Liara and Garrus. Kaidan is also much more popular with this crowd than he is the audience at large.

I also look at the characters (and organizations) going by who they appeal to and why. To make a broad generalization, I've noticed that there's a general difference in mindset to people who romance Tali over say Miranda or Ashley (who have the same general difference with each other).