923 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Kel Riever wrote...

I actually think people who are trying to argue for Tali and Liara supposedly being tough enough to be in battle are still barking up the wrong tree.

Tali and Liara are supposed to be non-combatants who, for whatever reason, are so powerful (prodigies or whatever) or so specialized in a certain skill set, you are supposed to be taking them along anyway, despite the fact that they are clearly civilians.

Nobody thinks that through much, apparently, whether it is Mass Effect, Star Trek, or whatever the next hot sci fi thing is. Well, cop shows do just as poorly. Civilians are running around all the time in cop TV shows shooting guns accurately and using martial arts.

That still doesn't make it a good excuse.

Tali is a prodigious engineer. She's much better suited as an airdale in the bowels of the ship than she is on the battlefield. 

Liara has... some kind of skill with intelligence, something I haven't really seen much of. Beyond taking her for her supposed knowledge on the Protheans in ME1, I still have no idea why she's on the ship with me.

I'm even kind of pissed that she took Miranda's old quarters in ME3. I'm totally ripping that junk out and leaving it on the sidewalk post war.

Along with all the alliance tech. I'm respec-ing the Normandy back to Cerberus standards postwar. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Tali isn't really a civilian, but then again the Quarian military system is quite complicated. She has extensive weapons training as well as combat tech and gear.

...Tali is not part of the quarian military.

Until ME3.  

Suddenly becoming an Admiral does not immediately impart her with the knowledge and skills of years of military experience.

They literally took a civilian, and they made her into an Admiral. That is not something that a respectable military would  be doing.

[Sir DeLoria]

J. Reezy wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Destroying the Geth was fun.

That's an understatement. It's one of the best things you can do in the game. They deserved to be destroyed.

This one understands:D

[DeinonSlayer]

Might be better to leave the armory in the shuttle bay, though, Massive. I wouldn't be too quick to remove the thermal pipe that keeps the engineers from cooking, either.

Let's not go there in this thread, Necanor.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 07 août 2013 - 06:22 .

[o Ventus]

Necanor wrote...

Her combat drones and energy drain aren't what I'd call civilian tech.

Being a civilian doesn't automatically preclude one from havig higher-quality gear. I don't see why those are apparently mutually exclusive. Having drones and an energy drain-like ability would be all too useful on the flotilla.

Her omni-tool is heavily upgraded with military tech hacking and sabotage software.

Which isn't shown or proven anywhere. The only person whose omni-tool we know anything about is Mordin, because he built his custom.

She might not be in the Quarian military officially, but she can evidently handle herself very well and is trained well enough.

... Which still makes her a civilian.

[KaiserShep]

Technically, a "Cerberus standard" Normandy would've been wrecked in the suicide mission. I like to think of it as "Shepard standard".

[o Ventus]

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, a "Cerberus standard" Normandy would've been wrecked in the suicide mission. I like to think of it as "Shepard standard".

An un-upgraded Normandy makes it through the SM fine, casualties notwithstanding.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Necanor wrote...

Until ME3.  

...Where she is made an admiral for no particular reason. Given that the Fleet is an indefinite junta and we aren't privy to the exact qualifications for leadership (do Xen and Koris have military experience? Does Raan?), those could very well be formal titles. Either way, it has zero bearing on anything I said, because Shepard deploys Tali beginning from ME1, and being an admiral in name only does not impart experience. Granted, we can be generous and assume that all quarians are taught the rudiments of combat (and perhaps she knows more than usual, her father being who he was), and we do know she is technologically gifted.

She's still a civilian. Technical experience (which she doesn't even have) does not and will not prepare you for combat stress. Realistically speaking, if absolutely necessary, I could see Tali as handler and using her expertise to work support with drones and remote sabotage. Otherwise...no.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 07 août 2013 - 06:28 .

[KaiserShep]

o Ventus wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, a "Cerberus standard" Normandy would've been wrecked in the suicide mission. I like to think of it as "Shepard standard".

An un-upgraded Normandy makes it through the SM fine, casualties notwithstanding.

This is true, though this still makes it slightly inferior. 

[PMC65]

Kel Riever wrote...

I actually think people who are trying to argue for Tali and Liara supposedly being tough enough to be in battle are still barking up the wrong tree.

Tali and Liara are supposed to be non-combatants who, for whatever reason, are so powerful (prodigies or whatever) or so specialized in a certain skill set, you are supposed to be taking them along anyway, despite the fact that they are clearly civilians.

Nobody thinks that through much, apparently, whether it is Mass Effect, Star Trek, or whatever the next hot sci fi thing is. Well, cop shows do just as poorly. Civilians are running around all the time in cop TV shows shooting guns accurately and using martial arts.

That still doesn't make it a good excuse.

I think that people are arguing two different things.

In game, Tali and Liara are just as valid a choice as any other squadmate. They will not fail on the field or a "game over" flash on the screen just because you brought them. I've used them as a team in ME1 when I have just wanted to try them out and found that Shepard could stand back as they cleared a room. If they are useless to a player than it is how they combat ... Garrus always dies when I use him, but I just chalk it up to my play style. I do not use him properly as evidenced by others who swear by Garrus.  

Then there is really role-playing it ... Bringing either into a battle when you have more qualified individuals doesn't make sense. When I play that way, Tali is only brought down once the battle is over to hack items. Liara is brought on Noveria and Ilos but not in the capacity of a soldier. I must also note that when role-playing, I also imagine that there are more than two members of my team there. 

Modifié par PMC65, 07 août 2013 - 06:32 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Just had a look at the Shadow Broker files again, Tali uses a military grade protoype suit, authorized by Admiral Gerrel and several military grade omni-tool upgrades from project Haestrom.

[HellbirdIV]

KaiserShep wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, a "Cerberus standard" Normandy would've been wrecked in the suicide mission. I like to think of it as "Shepard standard".

An un-upgraded Normandy makes it through the SM fine, casualties notwithstanding.

This is true, though this still makes it slightly inferior. 

Wholly*

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Might be better to leave the armory in the shuttle bay, though. I wouldn't be too quick to remove the thermal pipe that keeps the engineers from cooking, either.

I'll keep the thermal pipe.

The armory is going back to the armory. Don't know what the alliance techs were thinking to merge the single most vulnerable point for intrusion and putting the armor stock in there. Now I have an entirely unused station aboard my ship that now serves no purpose. 

Seriously though, IRL ships keep their armories in separate area's of the ship from the main deck but more accessable to the weapons crews that need it. I don't know how they're kept on amphibious assault ships though.

God, I hate the Normandy in ME3.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, a "Cerberus standard" Normandy would've been wrecked in the suicide mission. I like to think of it as "Shepard standard".

OK. The Cerberus SR-2 with the Shepard purchased upgrades. That's actually much better now.

[Kel Riever]

Again, a lot of character hate runs the risk of hyperbole. While it is one of my favorite things, I can't call it what it is not.

The problem is certain things just don' t come through on the writing of characters or in gameplay. Liara and Tali are supposed to be important enough to take along despite their lack of combat training. Yet they are neither devastating enough in gameplay nor given enough reasons at the right moments in the rpg parts to justify it.

Not to harp on the point, but in ME1, Liara's biotics were so powerful it made sense. And Tali was helluva lot more useful in combat too. The failure of ME3 is not wanting these two squadmates to be 'overpowered' when they probably should have been. You used to cast singularity in the right way, combat was over! And you were driving a tank that jumped mountains and shot thresher maws. Having a tech that made it better made sense.

[DeinonSlayer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Might be better to leave the armory in the shuttle bay, though. I wouldn't be too quick to remove the thermal pipe that keeps the engineers from cooking, either.

I'll keep the thermal pipe.

The armory is going back to the armory. Don't know what the alliance techs were thinking to merge the single most vulnerable point for intrusion and putting the armor stock in there. Now I have an entirely unused station aboard my ship that now serves no purpose.

Seriously though, IRL ships keep their armories in separate area's of the ship from the main deck but more accessable to the weapons crews that need it. I don't know how they're kept on amphibious assault ships though.

God, I hate the Normandy in ME3.

Good point. There's more to consider than convenience (the reasoning Cortez uses).

At least they didn't bring back those nonsensical staircases from ME1.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 07 août 2013 - 06:30 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

Screw both of them. I want the old Red and Black Normandy color scheme. Guess I'll put a spectre symbol (small spectre symbol) on the tail. Or maybe just skull and crossbones.

You think my Normandy won't be cool? My Shepard is putting this on the ship. Miranda is going to go nuts:

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 07 août 2013 - 06:32 .

[KaiserShep]

A Jolly Roger really should be on the Normandy, maybe nose art with a pinup girl riding an M920 Cain.

Massive, you glorious mofo. Get out of my head. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 août 2013 - 06:32 .

[Fixers0]

Screw the normandy all together, give me my 12.000 fighters allready.

[HellbirdIV]

StreetMagic wrote...

Screw both of them. I want the old Red and Black Normandy color scheme. Guess I'll put a spectre symbol (small spectre symbol) on the tail. Or maybe just skull and crossbones.

Honestly I don't understand why the Normandy isn't just painted all black with a grey mottling. It'd be almost completley invisible against the background of space, even if someone did look out of their structural weaknesses.

[DeinonSlayer]

HellbirdIV wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Screw both of them. I want the old Red and Black Normandy color scheme. Guess I'll put a spectre symbol (small spectre symbol) on the tail. Or maybe just skull and crossbones.

Honestly I don't understand why the Normandy isn't just painted all black with a grey mottling. It'd be almost completley invisible against the background of space, even if someone did look out of their structural weaknesses.

Heat retention. Same reason real-world spacecraft and suits are white.

[Sir DeLoria]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Screw both of them. I want the old Red and Black Normandy color scheme. Guess I'll put a spectre symbol (small spectre symbol) on the tail. Or maybe just skull and crossbones.

You think my Normandy won't be cool? My Shepard is putting this on the ship. Miranda is going to go nuts:

*snip*

Hmm, pic needs to be more potato headed(sorry, had to do it)

I think an all dark grey/black Normandy would go well...ah, screw this my Shep's gonna retire to Rannoch so Tali doesn't have to wear her suit all the time. Beachfront property here I come:D

[DeinonSlayer]

Necanor wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Screw both of them. I want the old Red and Black Normandy color scheme. Guess I'll put a spectre symbol (small spectre symbol) on the tail. Or maybe just skull and crossbones.

You think my Normandy won't be cool? My Shepard is putting this on the ship. Miranda is going to go nuts:

*snip*

Hmm, pic needs to be more potato headed(sorry, had to do it)

I think an all dark grey/black Normandy would go well...ah, screw this my Shep's gonna retire to Rannoch so Tali doesn't have to wear her suit all the time. Beachfront property here I come:D

inb4 chicken legs retort

Seriously, let's not stoop to this.